"I know we have all read and heard many a times,when you jack your car up to work on it PUT THE DAMM STANDS UNDER THE CAR. Well i just got a call from my Aunt and Uncle that my cousin 2 years older than i am (and i'm42)who's name is also Kevin was working on his truck today,had it jacked up but decided to use 2x4's for stands,well the jack collapsed the truck fell on his chest and he was pronounced DEAD at the scene.Not only does this suck because i lost a close family member but i also lost one of my best hunting buddies. Now you have read and heard the story again but this time there is no happy ending USE YOUR STANDS!!!"

QUOTE,POSTED BY KEVIN!

BTW
read these threads also

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=459&p=563#p563

http://www.levo-artis.com/

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=1024&p=1894#p1894

a car lift in your shop
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=98


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34924
If your going to work under your car I hope you support the car safely, some of you might think Im old fashion but some repairs (even thou I own a LIFT) are easier to do with (4) 12 ton jack stands and a mechanics creeper


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34924

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26

at some point its just not all that much cheaper to build things that are lower quality, those HF stands are fine!
Ive had six of the 12 ton jack stands in near constant use for MANY YEARS, trust me! I agree that much of what HF sells is crap, those stands are an exception, go look at them! they are stable, massive and decent designed stands, and yes it helps to have two floor jacks because at the low , first notch setting they are still fairly high from the floor, giving you plenty of access under a corvette or (Z)


viewtopic.php?f=27&t=672


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=34924


12 ton jack stands #34924

normally $80 for two, now on sale for $55 for two


3 ton next too 12 ton stands

another option
"I have been looking for a lift for a while but my problem is my garage is not high enough for a full lift. What I want is a low rise or mid rise portable lift I can store under the car and it will be low enough to drive over when not is use. When I need it I can raise it up and have access to the underside of the car. Does anyone have one of these and which would you recommend. This is for a home garage. Thanks"

this will do everything you asked for in a low clearance garage

http://kwiklift.com/commercial.htm

http://kwiklift.com/Options.htm

what youll USE the lift for and WHERE you use it will have a major influence on the correct choice, one of my neighbors owned one for years,and it works fine, as long as you realize that you need to use a floor jack to raise the ramps and theres room for a mechanics creeper, for oil changes, clutch jobs etc., but its not like a true lift and small jack stands as safety back ups are a good idea,under the ramps, you don,t want to trust just the small end stands alone, and you need to chalk the wheels and put on the brakes so the car can,t roll, on the ramps.
it comes with instructions and some common sense its a great tool if your ceiling clearance prevents a real lift.
personally I think is a great tool but a real twin post lift gives you far more access to the suspension and area under the car if you can use one so the extra cost may be well worth it, to upgrade or wait until you can afford a real lift if your not fighting clearance issues but just looking at cost alone.
think thru what youll use it for and think of cost as a important but not the only factor in your choice.
I thought long and hard about getting a kwick-lift , but I just used 4 12 ton jack stands until I could afford a true two post lift as most of the things I use a lift for require access to the suspension and removing wheels etc,

http://www.kwiklift.com/Options.htm

http://www.kwiklift.com/Options.htm#SIZE

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=98

down

up



Ive used them at a couple friends garages that only had the common 8 ft ceiling height double garages, and they work really well, but I used the heavy duty version so I don,t know about the standard versions

now theres not much at harbor freight thats well worth the price but these are low tech and well worth the cost, Ive had 6 in the shop for years, they are just the correct height at the lowest setting to work under your car and FAR AWAY MUCH LARGER AND STEADIER, more heavily built, and not nearly as easy to tip the car over with when you use them as the cheap and more comon 3 and 6 ton jack stands most guys use

are you not going to feel like a morron if the car falls from some cheap bargin jack stand when for a few dollars more you could have had substantiaslly larger and strong and much more stabile stands under the frame?
the guy who got killed at the start of this thread probably would not have purchased one, since he didn,t even have decent jack stands,
but its silly to think how little extra expense it takes to save a life

http://www.creepex.com/indexEN.html
now heres a TOOL that at first glance may seem silly, BUT the more I look at this the more I think its a good idea , after thinking about it it makes perfect sense.....its a creeper with a built in safety roll cage to prevent getting crushed if the car did fall
a DECENT WELDER and some WELDING SKILLS, a short trip to the local metal supply store, a few quality casters, and a free weekend could result in a custom version magically appearing in your garage for under $200, but having a nice chrome /padded ,pro made version will look nicer
I just can,t tell you how often a decent welder comes in handy around the shop

This is the picture they show on how it can protect you.






Unfortunately some of us are shaped like this.

but thankfully ,beer guts


are generally flexible enough to survive a few minor/limited impacts with a cars underside, or many of us would be dead by now, but Ill be building a 19" clearance model If I weld one up, simply to take full advantage of the 20" plus under the cars frame with the 12 ton jack stands


I also have bought shop equipment from

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/

with good results, and have had fast service




these car skates or wheel dollies make moving a car you can,t drive easily around the shop far easier, and a couple tall jack stands come in handy under a lift at times





viewtopic.php?f=27&t=132&p=2677&hilit=wheel+dollies#p2677

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/2-Ton ... t58001.htm

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Move- ... htmd-4.htm

btw heres a car lift thread

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=98

http://www.corvettegadgetman.com/products3.html

lots of guys think this is a good idea,personally Ive never needed or wanted one but then Ive installed a custom exhaust and in my case its not needed.

I HAVE thought seriously about BUYing or WELDING UP something like these



http://www.discountramps.com



http://www.discountramps.com/low_profile_car_ramp.htm



"1: why 12 ton? Ain't 6 ton more than enough?
2: how do you jack up the car? do you enroll your wife?
3: what floor jack do you use? Prices vary quite a bit?"

(1)
the 12 ton are BOTH FAR MORE STABILE from tipping or the car shifting, AND on the first notch they are exactly the correct height to allow comfortably accessing the under side of the car, place the 6 ton next to a 12 ton and raise both to the height of the 12 ton stands on the first notch, theres absolutely no comparison in your safety under the car, THERES ABSOLUTELY NO WAY YOU CAN COMPARE THE DEGREE OF STABILITY THE LARGER BASE AND STRONGER MATERIALS THE 12 TON STANDS PROVIDE

(2)OK first you DON,T raise a vette one corner at a time! you drive it up on the ramps to get clearance for the jack then slide the floor jack under the center of the front (CROSS MEMBER) and lift the front and place BOTH front 12 ton jack stands, under the frame , wide spaced, then the angle allows you to either use a second floor jack or move the front floor jack to the rear of the vette, and lift the whole back and place both REAR 12 ton jack stands, on the rear frame. now personally I usually leave the rear jack stands and the jack holding the rear up ,and the 12 ton jack stands on the front with the tires hanging just above the ramps, that way theres almost no chance the vette can fall, even if some component were to fail.
Ill ALSO point out I have and have always used two floor jacks, twin rino ramps and 4 12 ton jack stand WHEN I was under the corvette as I don,t want to be doing bench presses with a vette!:WTF


(3)theres several deals available, and the quality varies wildly, you'll need to shop,
http://www2.northerntool.com/auto-repai ... 144236.htm

this jack looks good in the info they posted, but if you can afford it ID buy two, so you can jack the frame with a buddies help with minimal frame twist.
I have two craftsman floor jacks and while they have worked well for years Id more than likely have purchased those if Id know about them at the time I bought them


http://www.eagleequip.com/page/EE/PROD/LI-LM/PAD-6000W


IVE used them, thier less expensive too buy and very easy too use but unless your doing mostly brake jobs and wheel and suspension related work and maybe oil changes their a P.I.T.A. or useless for many jobs and access under the car is very limited and unsafe in my opinion.

I still think the best value for most guys on a tight budget is purchasing (4) 12 ton jack stands , decent ramps and two floor jacks, you can do 90% of the stuff you want to do on a car if you've got a decent flat concrete pad with those and have well under $600 invested and its easily transported when you move, I used them for many years before I got my lift and still use them frequently today


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?function=Search


12 ton jack stands #34924

normally $80 for two, now on sale for $55 for two


BTW Ive seen this style stand cause accidents several times, only an idiot in my opinion trusts his life too a 1/4" bolt of undetermined sheer strength, and thats ALL thats keeping those from dropping un-unexpectedly

personal opinion!
that looks like an EXCELLENT WAY to have a car pre- set -up too fall off a lift, look at it this way,simple geometry says supporting each corner is far more stabile than ballancing the car fron the center even if the total foot print of the 4 jack stands was only equal to the single lift base, the lift is far less stabile than a quality jack stand placed under each corner of the car and you would be out of your mind to place the car that high on jack stands that are not anchored down,,so why would a lift thats not anchored down and less stable be a good option, one good shove and that cars over on its side, that and the fact theres little or nothing gained in access under the car with that lift, over 4 12 ton jack stands once the tires clear the floor by a few inches, and you can easily use a mechanics creeper to access most of it


http://kwiklift.com/commercial.htm

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26&p=34#p34

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=98

$2k for the lift and ~$400 for the installation materials and tool rentals.


thats $2400 (congrats on the nice lift and clean installation)
while thats impressive Im wondering how practical it will be, obviously what you use the lift for has a huge effect, and low ceiling clearance limits choices, but
while that looks fine for brake jobs IT appears theres very limited or no access under the car for exhaust and drive train work, unlike these similar price lifts that might have been,options

http://www.eagleequip.com/page/EE/PROD/LI-SS/GLO-8000



http://www.kwiklift.com/




http://www.eagleequip.com/page/EE/PROD/LI-ETP/MTP-9F

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=98

BTW having some jerk at a quick-lube or dealer screw up the adapter or filter is hardly a rare deal!
read thru the link on filters and the one on oil, its well worth the time
If your like most guys and can,t afford a true lift,or don,t have room, get a floor jack, 4-12 ton jack stands , or at least do yourself a huge favor and buy some QUALITY car ramps or weld some up yourself if youve got a welder and some skills, heres a bit of info on under car safety in my personal data base

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26

do some research and get some SAFE ramps or weld up your own, no sence getting hurt or makng life difficult.:thumbsup:
decent ramps m,ake oil changes far easier

generally the hotter the oil the thinner the effective viscosity, and yeah, draining it hot tends to carry more loose crud out as it drains, 10W30 means it flows like a 10 weight when cold and PROTECTS like a 30 weight will when its hot , the 30W oils of years ago thinned out with heat far more than the 10w30 oil of today, MODERN formulas are far more stabile in viscosity as the heat changes, oil generally doesn,t tend to increase its viscosity with increased heat , the rating of 10w 30 ,its NOT a dirrect representation of the expected viscosity at any temp, but its expected ability to provide protection to the bearings, and expected flow charicteristics.
keep in mind the ability of the thinner oils to protect bearings and reduce friction has made huge improvements over the oils available even 20 years ago, NASCAR engines run less oil pressure and thinner oils now than twenty years ago, and its resulted in better heat absorbsion and heat transfer, and bearing protection than the thicker viscosities of 20 years ago.
modern engines use tighter clearances and run at higher average temps to decrease emmissions and extend engine life expectancy.
change your oil and filter with almost any decent quality oil at least every 4500 miles and your very unlikely to have oil related problems


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html

http://www.atis.net/oil_faq.html

http://micapeak.com/info/oiled.html
C4 Corvette "Change Oil" Indicator Reset
The "Change Oil" indicator is reset by using a sequence of Driver Information Center (DIC) key presses as follows:


1. Turn ignition "ON", but do not start engine. (ALDL pin "G" should NOT be grounded.)

2. Press the "ENG/MET" button and release, then, within 5 seconds, press it again.

3. Within 5 seconds of Step 2, press and hold the "GAUGES" button. While the button is held, the "Change Oil" indicator will flash.

4. Continue holding the "GAUGES" button until the "Change Oil" indicator stops flashing and goes out, indicating successful completion of the reset cycle. This should take about 10 seconds.

If it does not successfully reset, turn ignition "OFF" and repeat the procedure from Step 1.

READ

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

http://www.aloha34.com/information/oilfiltertable.pdf

first, your oil NEEDS to get to 213 degees MINIMUM before it can burn off water vapor from the engines, MOST synthetic oil WORKS AT ITS BEST in the 230deg-245deg range as far as lubracation and deposite removal goes. SYNTHETIC oil has no problems at temps up to about 260 degrees even long term but MINERAL oil can start to break down at temps above 250 degrees
heres a cheap little item that really works!


http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1734&prmenbr=361
it drops my oil temps about 10 degrees

I use puralator pure 1 filters or mobile 1 filters and mobile 1 synthetic oil 90%-95% and 10%-5% marvel mystery oil. ALL APPLICATIONS, read this http://www.fernblatt.com/longhurst/engineoil_bible.html
http://www.melling.com/engoil.html

http://www.melling.com/highvol.html
http://www.melling.com/highvol.html https://dallnd6.dal.mobil.com/GIS/MobilPDS.nsf/26b7c4b33367a4a086256665004e4266/61638dff7d0453b085256b8400618b40?OpenDocument http://www.shotimes.com/SHO3oilfilter.html

if you tend to change oil only once or twice a year than synthetic oil holds a slight advantage and Id use it anyway simply for its greater heat tollerance!


things to read carefully
http://www.triumphspitfire.com/Oiltest.html

http://www.shotimes.com/SHO3oilfilter.html

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/3837/oilprime.html

http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html



http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/tenmythsaboutsyntheticlubrication.htm

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/


http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html

^^^ I have never seen one of those before. Pretty neat! I could have used it a lot.

once again a quick trip to the metal supply, some careful measurement and having a decent welder could make that top side creeper an easy weekend project, resulting in a custom built addition to your shops tools, and if done correctly you could improve on the strength and design features

BTW if you only have a 8 ft garage ceiling like some guys your options are limited, but heres two that work fine

http://www.kwiklift.com/Options.htm

keep in mind theres TWO versions, [COLOR="Red"]and options[/COLOR] a buddy bought the heavy duty version in black and LOVEs it for most jobs, [COLOR="DarkOrange"]he bought the HD version[/COLOR] because hes got a large 4x4 truck and the extra strength was almost mandatory, Ive used it and I would also suggest the HD version just because the extra strength might keep you safer, but at nearly $2k powder coated and delivered its almost up to the cheaper decent quality lifts, the reason my friend bought his was his garage has an 8 ft ceiling height

like the site says

WHAT SIZE DO YOU REALLY NEED?

Pick a KwikLift based on the empty weight of your vehicle, not GVWR . GVWR means Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. It is the total the vehicle would weigh if fully loaded with cargo and a few of your favorite 200 lb. friends. [COLOR="DarkOrange"]Generally, the GVWR can be 1200 lbs. more than the empty vehicle weight[/COLOR].
q
just keep in mind the kicklifts great for oil changes and clutch jobs etc. and much easier to drive onto, but the (4) 12 ton jack stands I used for many years have clearance advantages when your doing brake and suspension jobs and exhaust work and cost you about 10% as much

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=98

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34924


obviously there are home built options

http://mikemercury.home.att.net/ramp.htm

well, I'm sorry to hear about the relative/hunting buddy. I've had a few close calls when jacking vehicle up, JUST got wheel off ground when whole thing keeled over.
One actual instance when I could have had a VERY bad day. I claim lack of sleep, and inattentiveness. major part of idiocy was Ex-brother-in-law, I just got sucked in. lessons learned there, still have my leg, still have my knee, and the divorce was final going on 6 years now.

i have been very careful, and have no near misses to report. but, as a precaution, when working in the shop late at night alone under a car i keep my cell phone predialed to 911 and near my head at all times. my thinking was, even if a transmission or something pinned me, possibly one hand could still hit the 'send' button.

thats not a bad IDEA!
like having a fire extinguisher handy, you hope youll NEVER need to use it, but having the option handy sure could be important

BTW
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242261

read thru this, thread above, as its a good reminder about thinking thru the potential results of working around power tools, running engines etc.