planing a shop?



planing a shop?

Postby grumpyvette » April 5th, 2013, 9:17 am

"hey grumpy I figure I can afford to spend $80-$90 K on a shop I want to build, whats the first step, where do I get plans etc.
whos going to supply guidance, plans do inspections, how do I find out local requirements and restrictions, what do I need??"



I think youll find reading these links Ill post below,helps, sit down and list everything you need, start with having a current land survey,done its usually required, as will be a soil survey in most areas and a minimal height building pad, for drainage, be aware, youll need to met local codes, visit the local building and zoning office and find out about your areas building codes and your home developments limitations, on land use! and get written estimates on building pad costs, purchasing and getting actual architectural plans approved and city build permits, get financing, if required and if you plan on having a bathroom in the shop look into whats required don,t guess or estimate,youll need to plan every step, and know when and where all building inspections and requirements are met.
and yes the longer you wait the more it will cost.

expect things to cost more than you think they will, and take longer to complete, try to deal with licensed contractors and don,t pay in advance, people should get no more than 20% up front and the rest when work passes inspections by the local building inspectors.
IT helps to hire a construction supervisor IF you can find one you can trust, but be aware theres a bunch of rip off artists and guys who do very sub-standard work or fail to even show up if paid in advance.
get at least 4 written estimates on the work you want done and be very specific about ALL details on material, time frames costs and who will do what,you won,t like surprises and don,t assume anyone will do a damn thing unless they are paid to do it.
ID also point out that a shops likely to cost a minimum, of $50 a square foot of floor space by the time your done and permits inspections and electric connections, outlets, ceiling fans lighting, shop doors, a decent auto lift ,compressor etc. etc. add up fast.
its been my experience that almost any contractor or sub-contractor you hire will do as crappy and as cheap of work as they can get away with and if you don,t watch everything carefully bill you for stuff thats never used or bill you for materials youll never see, substituting lesser quality materials, etc. ITS been my experience that youll want to sub contract each step and supervise each step and that will require YOU understanding what and how every things designed to be done, so youll need to get specific,
if for example
you don,t specify a minimum of 10 ga copper wire and 12 dual 20 amp rated outlets, and where each ones placed, or the type and placement of ceiling fans and lighting and the fuse box, with a 200 amp 230 volt feed breaker panel, your very unlikely to get anything close to what you expect.
youll also need to specify roof truss design or youll get the minimum code allows, or if you don,t specifically mandate 8" of 4000psi concrete in the floor your going to get a good deal thinner concrete pad that might not work with a lift! I saved and planed for 35 years before both having a place to build and the time and cash to build, and I still found I only had the basics down, as an example I didn,t ask and understand that if I had built my shop foundation pad height just 18" taller than the 60" height I did build it It would have saved $8K on the type of septic tank and drain feild I was required by code to use in the shops bathroom, the extra pad height would have been less than 1/2 the cost, so it pays to ask inspectors, architects and contractors, lots of questions , like how can I save money?
how would you go about building this?
can you think of anything Im overlooking?
is there a way to do this better?

youll need to be very specific about what you want, GET LOTS OF REFERENCES FROM PREVIOUS LOCAL CUSTOMERS, VISIT and INSPECT PREVIOUSLY COMPLETED PROJECTS, TAKE NO CONTRACTORS WORD ON ANYTHING WITHOUT PROOF, what it costs, labor costs ,labor time frames,when its to be completed, whos doing the inspections, component quality,being used, whos paying, whos doing inspections and county permits get receipts for all labor and materials , and understand that if you pay a contractor and he fails to pay his material or labor, its YOU WHO GET STUCK PAYING FOR IT TWICE,and watch every step of every process


http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=116

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=98

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5035

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5007

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4865

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=297

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7458
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: planing a shop?

Postby grumpyvette » April 12th, 2013, 5:21 pm


this looks like an interesting option

Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: planing a shop?

Postby busterrm » April 15th, 2013, 7:29 pm

okay grumpy are you talking about the shaded glass doors or the cute blonde with the nice ass?
Bob
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Re: planing a shop?

Postby grumpyvette » April 15th, 2013, 7:51 pm

busterrm wrote:okay grumpy are you talking about the shaded glass doors or the cute blonde with the nice ass?



(1) its a moveable screen, not glass


(2) improved scenery (BTW I have a thing for cute brunets)
Image
Image
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: planing a shop?

Postby DorianL » April 17th, 2013, 9:33 am

What glass?
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Re: planing a shop?

Postby 87vette81big » April 17th, 2013, 6:47 pm

:shock: :D

Everyone is alive and well.
Grumpy knows how to kickstart the mind in Men....
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Re: planing a shop?

Postby philly » May 11th, 2014, 12:08 am

hey grumpy i've been reading long and hard about the this and once its financially within my reach, i would like to add a garage/shop to my house. my lot isnt nearly as big as yours so im kind of limited on space but i think i can use it wisely.

the area in question is on the east side of the house (my shed is currently in the southeast corner of my lot), i intend on removing the shed and having the garage built with a lift in the back, and space for another car infront of the lift space. let me see if i can draw something in paint that doesnt look like a kindergartner finger painted it...
-phil

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Re: planing a shop?

Postby philly » May 11th, 2014, 12:24 am

here is my masterpiece, here is how the lot is laid out and where i would like to add the garage, i added where the breakers are in the house because i assume thats where i will be bridging power from to get to the garage. by the way north is up on my drawing.

lot layout.png
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-phil

There's never enough money to build it right, but there's always enough to build it twice!
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Re: planing a shop?

Postby philly » May 11th, 2014, 12:56 am

by placing a two post asymmetrical lift on the south side of the proposed shop which should provide for enough room for a car on the lift and one more car between it and the garage door. possibly lifting one car and storing another beneath it.

i had the idea of doing that kickout space on the west side of the shop around the back of the house to give myself extra room for tools and a workbench without imposing on the parking situation. in that area i would also like to set up the compressor probably in the southwest corner and a charging station for my various battery powered tools possibly mounted creatively on the wall to give me some extra space.

the east side of the shop i would like to have room for metal shelving to store parts on but im not sure that theres enough room to make that possible. the majority of the metal shalving units i see around are about 2 ft in depth leaving me with basically 8 feet of width (accounting for the material that makes up the walls) to move cars in and out of there. the vette is almost 6 feet wide so now that i verbalize it, it doesnt seem very realistic as a storage solution to have those stand up shelves. maybe setting up a set of shelves that start a few feet off the ground would give me the room im looking for while still being able to open the doors of the cars?

in total it would be a bit over 650 sq ft but my main questions really concern additions to the house so close to the actual structure and the foundation of the house itself. do you think there would be a problem with that? i have no idea what the subterranean lot looks like and admittedly i have no knowledge of how homes are built but if theres opportunity without jeopardizing the structural integrity of the house i would love to build there. my shed is currently a 12x12 wood piece on a concrete slab built sometime in the 70's and i outgrew its potential when i was about 18 years old. i havent been able to really stockpile parts or tools as i would like to have over the years because ive really got no place to put them all.

any insight or perspective would be appreciated.

and for your reference, i agree completely with your philosophy that every shop should have a welder and a drill press (preferably a mill and a lathe but hey its only money!) and you know the heating and cooling concerns we face down here as well as anyone.
-phil

There's never enough money to build it right, but there's always enough to build it twice!
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Re: planing a shop?

Postby grumpyvette » May 11th, 2014, 8:54 am

OK first step is youll need to get a current accurate LAND SURVEY, the local building department won,t allow you to pull a building permit with out one thats been done within the last 2 years in most areas and that will generally cost you $400-$500

check with your local building & property codes,and building code restrictions, or home owner association building restrictions [b]look at your deed restrictions and city ordinances , and get a land survey to make sure theres room for a garage and nothing preventing you from building one, like power line access or sewer access,height or square footage restrictions etc.! many areas have SET BACK RULES preventing you from building any permanent structure, other than a fence or drive way within 15-20 feet of the property boundary line, there are also max square footage limitations,in some areas even restrictions that prevent garages that have doors that face the street , so the first step is a trip to the building department to see what the local bureaucrats, have in store for you, and ask about the tax implications.....your home may currently be taxed at a certain mill rate, adding a major structural improvement may not only change the total value your homes valued at but the mil rate, its billed at, and you can be damn sure its an increased rate, if it changes so ask BEFORE you open that can of worms

now its far from rare to find that theres a city building code that requires a 15-20 foot set back from the property back and edge and a 50 ft set back from the street so ASK QUESTIONS
Ill also point out that if you draw up your own plans you open a second can of worms,theres going to be a couple dozen required inspections and if you fail any you need to either stop and repair or tear it out and start over so youll need to get it planed and done correctly the first time, this requires plans and materials and qualified contractors or at least your understanding whats required, and a close supervision of all work being done and a constant visual inspection of materials used, and checking on the quality,and quantity of materials delivered and properly installed, that problem will be avoided if you buy a set of commercial plans or hire an architect to design your custom plans,and either hire qualified contractors, and WATCH THEM CAREFULLY AT ALL TIMES, and BTW youll need a 8" thick 3500PSI concrete floor and 12 foot clearance floor to rafters for many lifts
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: planing a shop?

Postby philly » May 11th, 2014, 9:23 am

right on, thanks grumpy... i have really no knowledge when it comes to materials and techniques used to build a structure like this so i would have to find some sort of contractor i trust to oversee the process.
-phil

There's never enough money to build it right, but there's always enough to build it twice!
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Re: planing a shop?

Postby grumpyvette » May 11th, 2014, 9:35 am

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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