shop ceiling fans

[chromebumpers]

Grumpy, you held back on telling about all the good stuff! I just figured the footings,excavation, block work concrete and roof for a 28 X100 ft building (no doors or anything else!

I would have fought harder on the issue of tax assessment if you could prove a lower cost with legal receipts. I won an appeal on my home. The county had me taxed on sq footage and lot size and not my purchase price, it was initially $22,500/yr. and after an appeal it's now down to $11,600/yr. a small time builder built the home in '06 just before high-end homes became very hard to sell. The house sat unoccupied for the next three years mostly because it was over priced and the builder wouldn't lower the price. When he claimed bankruptcy the bank holding the mortgage lowered the price way down to get it off their books in time for the Federal bailout money. Back in '00 to '04 the house could have easily sold for the asking price of 1.8 mil but the bank wanted it gone in 10 days and we bought it for $720,000. At the time we bought there was a load of short sales like this, you won't find any now.

[chromebumpers]

theres no windows and it cost me $137K, to build ,that included the lift installed,a bathroom with shower and sink, hot water heater,security system, and lighting,electric plumbing and fans because I sub contracted each stem my self, but the county inspectors accessed its value at $240 K for taxes because they said it could not have been built for less, ( had all the receipts but they won,t budge on the tax assessment value
a good example of why is the electric work, fans and lighting, just the parts cost me over $7k my sons and I installed everything in conduit with at least 10 ga copper wire, the contractors wanted to use roof trusses built from 2"x4" lumber I INSISTED on 2"x8" lumber and paid $6k extra, the contractors suggested 15 year guarantee shingle roof , I insisted on 50 year guarantee shingles, that only cost $500 extra, the electrical contractors wanted to use 12 ga solid core copper wire I used 10 ga stranded for most of the stuff,the contractors didn,t quote a septic tank and drain field installed that alone cost me $10k , the contractors wanted to use a 4" thick 2600 PIS concrete in the floor I insisted on a full 8" under the area with the lift and 6" over the rest with 4000psi concrete and that only added about $1500, peanuts to the total cost , I put out bids and got electrical contractor bids for $29K and up for less work than I eventually did and with inferior components quoted

[b]

I believe labor costs and contractor profit margins are a lot less where you live. The cheapest septic system here for a mound and drainfield is no less then $20,000, I think most guys in that business get together on their pricing. You get large discounts for paying your bill in cash, but unless the guy is someone you trust you can get screwed really fast and you can count on that!

I have an oversized 3 car attached garage 40' X 26' with over-sized doors, no posts and 12' ceilings. It's better then most but I need more space and definitely more space for my lift. I should have put the lift in the center and robbed a little space from the other two bays.

[chromebumpers]

With this garage you could have made your own painting bay, I guess you still could. I was toying with that idea, it's a lot cheaper then buying a paint room. You could get some sponsors and have your own cable show for car repairs and DIY garage/shop work at home.

[87vette81big]

The wife jokes around I need an Amish Crew to build the barn workshop I want Rich .
I just like those Big Old Barns.
The upper loft area in those old barns are just huge.
Doubles storage room.
With a big Ridge Beam you can store 40,000 + Lbs of parts no problem.
Still have an open lower floor with no posts.
I am zoned agricultural . Don't even need a permit to build.
Also if it looks like a crappy old barn they can not Tax me much
Maybe $250 more per year.
I have checked out post buildings.
They are so cheaply made .
I don't see them holding up very well to even a mild midwest tornadoe.
I look at 100 year old barns & think of all the crazy thunderstorms & high winds endured.
Still there.

[chromebumpers]

I am zoned agricultural . Don't even need a permit to build.
Also if it looks like a crappy old barn they can not Tax me much
Maybe $250 more per .

Brian -
My place is 20 acres and it's registered as forestry for a whopping 1K reduction in R.E. taxes.
Here the township requires you to get a permit for a small shed. If its not on concrete it has to be on 4" of gravel. I'm not in a neighborhood and most everybody around has at least 10 acres or more with very long driveways. You really cannot see any other houses so people could build additions and nobody would know.
The old barns that are any good are bought by the guys who are brokers and sell internationally. You have to have great skills to work with these barns, many of which where never on real footings and the woods are severely warped, termite damaged and dry rotted. You have to be able to splice and replace bad sections with larger then standard size timbers and you're not going to get that wood from HD.
I think the quality of the pole buildings are relative to what level of construction is desired. There are office buildings nearby that are pole construction and look quite good.

[87vette81big]

What if an old barn was Free Rich ?
Come & take it down ?
Found 2.
Also have a free 2 car garage come this fall.
Garage from a close longtime friend in Joiiet.
Ed is building a new Killer garage like Grumpy has.
Good thing for my 1994 K1500 Suburban & 18 foot daul axle car trailer my thoughts are this morning.
Ed is a mechanic like me..
I am still very strong. Adventurous.
I know its a new insurmountable goal I have.
Tack it on the list.
I am a hotrod car guy.

[chromebumpers]

Nothing compares to free, I just never see them or maybe they're in a hard to get location, a last minute deal, poor condition. The antique world is huge here and people pay crazy prices for wide planks for flooring or wainscoting. Last words about "free stuff" - have you ever seen the last page of This Old House magazine? They feature a house for free or sometimes a nominal fee if you move or restore the house. I've been trying for 18 years on just about everyone of them each month getting faxed copies before the mags hit the streets. I meet every criterion required and I never hit on one yet.

[87vette81big]

I watch Antique Roadshow sometimes Rich.
Pretty neat some of the Finds shown on TV.
Especially on the East Coast.
The wife is from the East Coast. Virginia.

Believe me I would love to build a huge $100k - $300k garage.
But they don't pay Master Auto & Diesel Mechanics like they used to.
Prior to 2008 times were good
Its a miracle to make over $8 per hour.
Want to pay you McDonalds wages.
Buy your own health insurance yet.

See what happens come fall.
Likely only thing to pan out positive is my friends old 2 car garage frame. & doors & siding.
Must be dozens of old abandoned barns near me.
Drive around & find them.

[chromebumpers]

Its a miracle to make over $8 per hour.
.

I would recommend coming east. The dealers have trouble finding good techs. Detailers make $15, grease monkeys a little more. If you are a higher class and always work faster than the book rate you are looking at thirty something easily.
There's a load of shops everywhere around here and I cannot remember where I last saw a garage out of business - they're always busy and the only place you can get in quick is at Pep Boys. The cheapest shop rate is $90/hr.

[87vette81big]

Its been tempting to leave Illinois when younger Rich.
Single back then.
Married now with Kids.
Actually like my small farm 5 acres & 97 year old house.
Making more thab $8 An hour.
Like to earn $30 per hour.
I am a very good & versed mechanic . Making flat rate & beating nothing new to me.
Been there and done that.
Reason why few are left is because there is no short term & long term incentives left to be a mechanic.

Education is key.
My work field has been decimated.
Healthcare next in 2014.
Insurance also.
I am real big into political discussions like Grumpy.

I just want my barn workshop.

[chromebumpers]

Brian, the mechanics have a union here, part of the big UAW. Of course only certain types of shops are union, mostly big truck and construction equiptment shops for sure. Some dealerships have a split of the shop's rate. If you're consistently equaling or beating flat rate big dealerships with union techs get in the forties with health and welfare benefits. I have close ties to a large dealer here and I know there's a constant need and managers are alway trying to persuade mechanics to jump ship. Right now I even have the word out that I'm looking for a mechanic to help me finish the projects never finished and I'll pay $30 cash/hr. and I'm not getting any bites outside of tire & oil changers.

[87vette81big]

Moving to Pensylvania not so easy right now Rich.
The Boy Jamie or Jesse as I have been calling him is 6 days old.
At home with Mom & healthy.
She hates Illinois most of the time.
But loves our small farm .
Searching to buy last year was difficult.
Nice big outbuildings and no land & a real crappy house.
Or a nice old farm house with a solid structure & framework.
Just needs repainting. Land. 1 car garage.
I lost. Wife won.
But its near where I grew up at.
I am always for hire.
Maybe I can help you finish your projects Rich.
Show up in person. Load my Suburban with my favorite tools.
Depends what needs to repaired or restored.
Be a real adventure to share on Grumpy's Forum here.

Brian R.

[grumpyvette]

my shop fans have a small slide switch on the side, of the center hub that allows you to reverse the direction of rotation, just for giggles, and thinking about previous posts I asked my younger son for help, to do a quick test., and as a test, I spent, 15 minutes, too have too try a change, too see if it improved the feel of the air flow in the shop.
I got my younger son up on a tall step ladder and he changed them all in the shop to push air into the rafters, toward the roof exhaust fans, this resulted in noticeably less breeze or air flow rates at floor level than the previous set up, where roughly 1/2 the fans on the west side pushed air up and all the fans on the east end pushed air toward the floor.
If you have a similar situation where several fans can push air down on one end of the shop and several can push air upwards you might want to try it out to see the effect it has, now it might be most effective in my shop due to the 16' rafter height and no ceiling , so the upward moving air traveled thru and above the rafters,but I can assure you it works well.
now I can easily see where if the shop had a ceiling and was closer to the floor the effect would not be nearly the same

theres about 8ft above the lower horizontal ceiling rafter to the roof rafters at the peak
I naturally have the roof duct or evac fans pulling air up out of the rafters and pushing that out over the roof exterior, I have the 9 fans on the west end of the shop pulling air up into the rafter and the 12 fans on the east end blowing to the floor , this results in a very noticeable circulation in the shop making it feel a good deal cooler than it is in reality according to the thermometer, Like Ive said many times TEST AND TAKE NOTES YOU MIGHT FIND OUT THINGS YOU ASSUMED TO BE WORKING WERE NOT WORKING AS YOU THINK THEY ARE!

home depot 60" industrial fans put out a decent breeze

roof duct fans come in various sizes, I got the largest I could locate at the time the shop was built

[chromebumpers]

I am always for hire.
Maybe I can help you finish your projects Rich.
Show up in person. Load my Suburban with my favorite tools.
Depends what needs to repaired or restored.
Be a real adventure to share on Grumpy's Forum here.

Brian R.

Congrats once more,
How is Jesse doing? Just a side note- my wife and I were trying for years to have a child, spent a small fortune seeing doctors and giving her fertility shots at home. We knew a successful outcome could be twins and that's what happened. However there were complications and they were born nearly 2 months early. The first one, Hannah was 2.4 lbs. and the second, Alexander at 4.6 lbs. they were on all kinds of machines and monitors. It was 3 weeks later when we could take Hannah home, Alex was 3 weeks behind her, both had apnea and oxygen monitors - wires were everywhere! I couldn't sleep at night for the next 3 months for fear one or the other monitor could go off and I wouldn't hear it in time. They'll be 10 on Sept. 22, in 5th grade and no problems what so ever.

Back to PA. you or anybody here have an open invitation to take a vacation here. It takes my wife 14 hours to drive to her sister's house in Naperville. We have a huge home and spare bedrooms. We have had big Pig roasts and invited 50 plus strangers from the just the forums i am a part of, install parties on Saturdays and Once there was over over 60 collector cars on my front lawn. i don't hunt but you are welcome to hunt here. You can literally take out a buck on any given day right off the wrap-around porch. The white tails walk right up to the house and look in the windows. Scares the hell out of you when you turn on the dining room lights at night and glowing eyes are in the window. My black lab used to go after them but now she walks right past them. I have woods and a good size stream on one side of the property that combined with a local farmer uses a few acres of my land at the far rear of my property to grow experimental crops but never harvests. So the deer have a constant source for food, water and shelter with nobody hunting them. Right now there is an acre of Soy beans and Sun flowers nobody has any interest in picking but sometime coming up he'll plow that stuff under and plant some type of corn - all of which keeps the deer coming and going all day and night long. There are Turkey and Red Fox all over as well. My dog likes to kill and eat groundhogs, it's so disgusting how she walks around with these huge GH in her mouth and later she'll drop off the head on the porch, guts somewhere nearby, she drives the Turkey Buzzards crazy they fly around waiting to dive in and Raven just lays around nearby and these monster birds just perch on the ridge of the roof watching. It's not over at that point. After what's left of the rotted caucus the next day or so Raven likes to roll herself in the stinking mess.

[chromebumpers]

My apologies to grumpy for wondering off topic or high-jacking your thread.

Think it's great that you took the time to experiment using the fans. The way you have things going it would be great at pulling down trapped warm air up high in the upper rafter area in the winter when heat is used (if you use heat, I like a bit of cold myself). As for what's going on for feeling cooler in the summer heat there are volumes of different ways to approach this situation working with your current construction. I see a lot of smaller shops using what is known as a "whole house fan." That only works with a finished ceiling.

[87vette81big]

Hi Rich,

When I go to work for someone New I expect to be tested.
I can work 3 days straight with no sleep, food, or help.
Its 100% hardcore business to complete to to my own personal satisfaction.Perfection.
And the customer must be happy.
No party time.
Afterwards I sleep for a day.
Feed me.
Show me around.

Invite Grumpy.
Work side by side.
Take shifts working
He can supervise all .

I can make the drive nonstop.

Driven to Dallas Fort Worth non stop. 19-20 hours from here.

Brian