Walde's -78 SA



Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby grumpyvette » January 14th, 2015, 10:03 am

yes your basically correct , but keep in mind oil tends to slosh to different locations under higher G loads when braking accelerating or making high speed turns

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keep in mind that while the engines running about 1.5 to 2 quarts will be in the upper engine like the valve covers,lifter gallery , oil passages etc. thus lowering the effective level of oil in the sump significantly, compared to its level while sitting un- running while your looking at the oil level on the dip-stick
measure the distance from the oil pan, mounting rails on the block up to the cranks counter weights, lets assume its 3" here, then measure your oil pan depth and subtract that 3", mark that 3" depth inside the oil pan adjacent to the rear most counter weight,and fill it to the mark, counting the quarts as you fill it. mark the dipstick to show the liquid at that level, remember most engines will be installed at a slight rearward slope angle, and a windage screen should be installed at a distance of about 1/8" outside the ARC of the rotating assembly, and a slosh plate and gated baffles just under the windage tray should help control oil movement away from the oil pump pick-up in the sump under hard acceleration or braking (look at the pictures below)

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814&p=22651&hilit=dipstick+water#p22651

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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby Walde » January 14th, 2015, 11:07 am

I'm particularly slow today :oops: :

If I understand this correctly, max oil level is the lowest point of counterweight?
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby grumpyvette » January 14th, 2015, 11:23 am

yes thats usually a good place to set it, but just a side note, I purchased an aftermarket 6-8 quart rated oil pan for my 1985 corvette with its 383, a fabricated an extended sump so if its filled to the counter weight depth it holds almost 11 quarts, I generally run 9-10 quarts, but that includes the volume in the oil cooler.
every one seems mesmerized by the idea of purchasing and installing parts like big lopey cams and intake manifolds, but its a well designed lubrication and cooling system that helps the engine live under stress.
KEEP IN MIND the object is not to have a certain oil level, its to keep the oil pump pick-up covered and maintain consistent pressurized oil flow on all the moving components as oil flow cools and lubricates those surfaces, and in the case of bearings supports and separates the moving surfaces
I ran across these first two pictures, on a different site and felt they could be useful as a teaching aid,
the owner obviously has installed a slosh baffle gate in the lower sump and the rear area has what appears to be a partial windage screen, obviously this will function better than if he had not taken any effort and simply installed a open oil pan sump like most cars engines come with, but he stopped well short of the ideal oil control level that could have been reached.
I think the screening must have been having a clearance issue in the forward area of the oil pan under the forward four cylinders from the look of the way the screen was cut, now assuming there was room and no suspension or cross member prevented it a deeper pan or modifying the current oil pan seems like an option, a solid sheet metal horizontal upper sump slosh baffle should have extended back under the windage screen , and over the oil pan sump at the level of the upper oil pan floor ,well past the location of the swinging oil gate , to prevent oil from rushing forward under hard braking, not having the upper plate in place defeats a great deal of the purpose of having the lower slosh gate
(similar to the third picture)
KEEP IN MIND THERES SEVERAL THINGS GOING ON IN A PROPERLY DESIGNED OIL PAN
THE MAIN OBJECT IS TO MAINTAIN A CONSTANT DEPENDABLE SUPPLY OF OIL OVER THE OIL PUMP PICK UP, and REDUCE THE RESISTANCE THE SPINNING CRANK SEES PUSHING RETURNING OIL AROUND IN THE CRANK CASE
(1)the upper full length slosh plate,over the baffles and gates direct oil to the oil pump
(2)the screen allows oil to flow along the upper surface of the slosh plate back to the sump without the spinning crank assembly picking it up and circulating it in the crank case
(3)the screen shears off oil flow passing over its surface and directs oil into protected routes back to the sump

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the area behind the screen but over the sump forms a semi-protected path for oil flow forced by the spinning crank assembly to easily travel back to the sump. yet prevents oil slosh under hard braking
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a windage screen like these mounted over the slosh plate adds a good deal more efficiency
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HERES A DIFFERENT MANUFACTURERS OIL PAN,the oil pan below LACKS a SLOSH PLATE over the sump area and has very limited windage protection of the oil in the sump as a result, so even though it may look impressive it will likely not prevent oil windage effectively or force oil back into the sump or protect and trap oil under high g-loads during cornering or braking

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there are some nice commercially made semi custom oil pans, but if you can weld and fabricate sheet metal you can custom build something thats a perfect fit to your chassis and fits your application exactly, and don,t ignore an oil accumulator, and remote mounted oil filters and remote mount fan equipped oil coolers as an additional option, to add capacity and cooling

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http://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/store/htm ... s_bbc.html


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http://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/store/htm ... s_sbc.html

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3071&p=8131&hilit=corvette+quart#p8131

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viewtopic.php?f=80&t=10514&p=44478&hilit=corvette+quart#p44478
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby Walde » January 14th, 2015, 11:36 am

Thanks Grumpy!
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby Walde » January 17th, 2015, 10:00 am

We were changing the upper and lower control arm bushings today and took a look at the steering box as well.

There is some play in the middle but the more worrying detail is in the input shaft. When I rotated the input shaft it moves quite freely but there is a clear and sharp "step" or "slot" in there somewhere one after the other as I rotate. This happens to both directions.

Possibly the whole worm thingy is shot, right? :cry:
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby grumpyvette » January 17th, 2015, 11:07 am

could you describe that a bit more clearly and detail the info or problem so I can understand what your referring to?
I think your saying that as you turn the steering wheel the movement of the input shaft rotation is NOT smoothly directed thru the steering box but it tends to result in an intermittent or stop/start ratcheting movement on the output side of the steering box connected to the steering linkage?
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby Walde » January 17th, 2015, 11:58 am

When I have the loose steering box on the table and turn the input shaft it turns quite freely but I feel some sort of steps or snaps in the input shaft although it turns constantly. The output shaft however moves at the same time smoothly.

Somewhat difficult to describe but it feels that everything is not as it should inside the steering box.
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby grumpyvette » January 17th, 2015, 2:13 pm

yes that does sound like well worn steering gear meshing , if its not too hard to locate or expensive too replace that might be an option, yes theres a stud with a lock nut that allows you to take up some slack in the contact area, but its rarely all that effective
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby Walde » January 17th, 2015, 2:59 pm

Thanks, mate.

Eckler's - among others - have a repair kit available but also a fellow Corvette guy is selling his repaired steering box. If that has said Eckler's kit or similar I might buy that and save several weeks and some money as well.

http://www.ecklerscorvette.com/corvette-steering-gear-box-rebuild-kit-1969-1982.html

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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby Walde » January 19th, 2015, 2:19 am

I decided to buy above mentioned buddy's fully repaired and unused steering box - it cost less than that Eckler's kit and it has this kit installed. Which is nice. 8-)
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby Walde » January 20th, 2015, 12:27 pm

About starters and alternator:

I would need to choose a starter and an alternator and order them. Some advise would be appreciated.

Starter

IIRC engine has about 10.25:1 compression, no idea of dynamic compression ratio - did check that once but have forgotten results. Wasn't too bad, though. It is built inside and around a Dart SHP block. Need to check if starter bolts are staggered or inline.

I bought this Powermaster 9004 for 383" of my -86. Would this be OK for the 427" as well or something else?

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http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/pwm-9004/overview/
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby Walde » January 20th, 2015, 12:30 pm

IIRC my DeWitt's radiator is equipped with two Spal fans. I don't remember how many watts they take.

How big alternator do I need? 100 amps or bigger? And what do you think, is the original 10SI or 12SI?

Any idea which brand are OK? I would not like to do any rewiring so would prefer a plug and play alternator.
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby Walde » March 2nd, 2015, 11:44 am

Well, nothing much to report if not about cleaning up the garage.

I had these parts on the shelf for a while with the vague idea of making my -78 as something that it is not meant to be soo I decided to sell these and found a fellow who agreed to buy them.

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Instead I will put the suspension together wil stock parts updated with Energy Suspension bushings and Moog ball joints. I have a set of KYB gas shocks which still seem to have the charge intact. I got a new set of 450 lbs front springs and I recall that I have a VBP 330 lbs fiberglass spring somewhere. A set of new antirollbars should be there as well.
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby Walde » March 2nd, 2015, 11:57 am

Now, back in the day when I had slightly more money than brain I lost it altogether after suspension package and thought that the car needs to stop as well. So after a bit of searching I settled for this Wilwood kit with 6 piston front and 4 piston rear calipers and big discs. IIRC the calipers would barely fit inside a 17" wheel with max. 5 millimeters clearance. Stupid is as stupid does... :oops:

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To put this kit on my -78 would require in reality 18" wheels to make them fit in. And 18" wheels need 18" tyres and that wheel + tyre set would not be cheap so I would better off by selling this brake kit.

This in mind we checked my stock calipers and noted that
- front calipers are with SS sleeves
- front caliper pistons and seals need to be changed
- rear calipers do not have SS sleeves
- rear caliper pistons are OK and need just new seals
- master cylinder will need a seal kit
- but since a Raybestos master cylinder is just $20 and an AC Delco $40 I think I better get a new instead
- a new brake booster would be good to get while we are at it
- and a set of brake hoses and stock AC Delco pads

Decisions, decisions...
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby grumpyvette » March 2nd, 2015, 12:10 pm

wow! when I see guys selling off, bunches of new in the box and un-used components, I usually can,t quite make up my mind if this is a case of simply changing your goals or car projects in mid stream, or finding that the components already purchased , in inventory don,t meet the intended goals?
yes Ive been there in the past, finding Ive purchased components that really don,t match the cars intended build, but Ive rarely got all my money out of the resold parts even when they were un-opened boxes so I generally try very hard to think thru my goals and make rather detailed lists as to what Ill need and try to minimize that potential cash flow loss.
yes its almost UN-avoidable at times, and Ive certainly got some great deals picking up parts from guys trying to recoup a bit of cash on parts that way.
and BTW looking over what your thinking of selling off, its rather obvious you have good judgement in selecting quality components, rather than cheap trash, so congrats on that aspect of your builds, as knowing the difference and taking the effort to seek out the better quality components goes a long way to insure a well built finished car.
I hope you recoup most of your cash so that you can build exactly what you really want!
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Walde's -78 SA

Postby Walde » March 2nd, 2015, 12:23 pm

I'd say goals have changed and even if/when I don't get what I paid for those selling the parts 'seems' the best way to go. I sold the suspension kit several weeks ago and still don't regret so it was the way to go.

Haven't quite fully decided about the brakes yet. If, and that's a big if, I would keep them it would mean a set of 18" wheels and for me it would most likely mean Centerline Auto Drags or Champ 506s. Although I don't much care for the mirror shine of these moderns versions.

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Now, if anyone would make an affordable steel wheel in 17" or 18" like for example Cragar Black D I'd be interested.

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