the c4-bbc engine swap



the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » September 19th, 2008, 1:38 pm

no its not a TRUE drop in,and drive engine swap, it will require some fabrication skills to do correctly, but its not that difficult either! and its a reasonable way to get 500-600 hp, and 500-600 ft lbs of torque PLUS in a c4 corvette

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READ THE THREAD THRU TO THE END AND BE AWARE IT, AND ALL OTHER THREADS ARE CONSTANTLY UPDATED WITH NEW LINKS AND INFO
all Im strongly suggesting is do the financial home work and research into what parts and machine work might be required , what further mods the increased power or heat or speed may require, before jumping into this project with both feet, I see far to many guys get 1/4 to 2/3rds into something similar and either lack the funds or interest to complete the project, many forget that increasing power to the engine is not where performance starts and stops, if you double or triple the original engines power you damn sure will need bigger brakes, a bigger radiator, better oil cooling, and a stronger drive train, and a near endless list of minor upgrades in support components and gauges to allow you to use that extra power effectively, think things thru and you can have an exceptional car when your done. this is a fact lots of guys seem to ignore, a good deal of ingenuity by the cars builder in selecting the components and and a great deal of thought going into getting a good power to weight ratio ,and setting up the frame suspension and brakes and drive train, regardless of the cars appearance, can result it some amazing performance characteristics, reducing weight is just as effective as adding power so think long and hard about reducing weight with aluminum heads,custom aluminum, intakes aluminum,water pumps,ALUMINUM BRACKETS, lower weight seats, bigger more effective brakes ETC. but obviously strength and durability must be considered in your component selection.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Blueprint-Engines ... 1/10002/-1
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I think most guys stick with the sbc because switching requires changes from the components they may already have purchased like headers, accessories, and dozens of small things you need for a swap to be a direct "bolt in" swap that requires little thinking , fabrication or more than hand tools plus The added expense of converting,plus building the larger engine requires a few other changes but the end result of a well done drive train, swap results in a rather rare almost unique car, when you consider the average TPI corvette had less than 250 rear wheel horse power, and how easy it is to build a big block with 500 hp this is almost a total "no brainer" idea
Id strongly suggest using the aluminum heads,intake manifold and water pump, adding a larger aluminum radiator as those items significantly reduce the weight, and replacing the wiper motor and using the LT5 air conditioning evaporator cover, making the swap much nicer, if you use the internally balanced crank on your engine the diameter can be smaller and while you still need to move the steering rack about 3/4" forward the k-frame only needs minor clearance work , you'll need to select the intake and hood combo with clearance issues in mind and a 3" full length exhaust is really mandatory.
this may help
as most of the longer term readers know I have a well built 383 designed to run nitrous in my 1985 corvette, and yes if I use nitrous it tends to shred stock u-joints and twist half shafts so those were upgraded

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http://www.corvetterecycling.com/category_s/63.htm

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=430

http://www.streetdreams.org/interactive/

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=10961&p=48185#p48185

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_ni39iwAys

http://high-performance-engines.com/Mer ... Code=HP44C

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6&p=6&hilit=hood+scoop#p6

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=10955&p=48167#p48167

Ive replaced u-joints regularly,and half shafts needed upgrading and Ive burned up and trashed 3 pro built 700r4 transmissions, Id strongly suggest upgrading to a 4l80e and a dana 44 or a solid dana 60 if your making over 500 ft lbs of torque, or youll very likely find you need to replace stock components.
I set about collecting what I need for a serious BIG BLOCK swap, funds are limited but I purchased a 4l80e,a bunch of big block parts and Im looking for a dana 60, there are cars running 10 second 1/4 mile times with the dana44 rear, but I doubt a serious big block that makes in excess of 600hp/600ft lbs will play nice for long with a dana 36-or-dana 44

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=653

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=379

read these links also

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6

http://www.kwikperf.com/bbc_serp_kit.html

http://www.vortecproperformance.com/eng ... tions.html

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=8610&p=30272#p30272

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=3060&p=8085#p8085

http://www.corvettefever.com/featuredve ... index.html

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=176&p=210#p210

http://markitude.wordpress.com/2009/03/ ... -corvette/

http://marchperf.com/pg26.html

http://www.vortecproperformance.com/eng ... tions.html

http://www.airflowresearch.com/17-23.pdf

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=255&p=303&hilit=stainless+welding#p303

http://www.fidnet.com/~harleyms/serpentine%20page.htm

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1234

http://forums.carcraft.com/70/679503/ge ... index.html

http://vettextc.jiminees.com/jeff/C4_BBC/C4_BBC.pdf

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=9489&p=34906&hilit=swivel+t+stat#p34906

solid rear info
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-tech ... -kits.html

first, having done a few swaps,I can point out,a BBC with aluminum water pump,heads and intake only adds about 75-80 lbs over the front wheels compared to a standard sbc, Id bet your girl friend in the pass seat adds more weight,you'll never notice if your the average driver, and adding a stiffer front sway bar can easily make up the difference for street use.



I don,t know what oil pan most guys have used in the big block engine swaps, as I stated, I have used several oil pans as a start point and I may have used that one,posted below. but Ive custom cut, and re-welded the sumps,on several oil pans we have used, to increase the volume and add baffles etc. to be about 3/8" deeper than the oil pump sits below the blocks oil pan rails and too maximize the oil pan capacity between the headers on the engines Ive BUILT. Im not sure what oil pan was used by the guys who supplied their own oil pans ,obviously a GEN IV ENGINE REQUIRES A DIFFERENT OIL PAN THAN A LATER GEN VI BIG BLOCK.
most GUYS USING THE OLDER MORE COMMON gen IV, ENGINES, tend to use the oil pan from the 1970 big block corvette but again Im not positive of that particular part number although its very likely its that same part number 14091356

http://paceperformance.com/i-6255398-14 ... chevy.html
YOULL MORE THAN LIKELY FIND READING THRU THIS THREAD USEFUL
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65
if you have the newer GEN VI engine this oil pan MAY WORK
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/pr ... IECE-SEAL/

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3399&p=26865#p26865

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be careful when cutting the upper surface of the cross member for damper clearance the spring inside sits close to the surface
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when custom welding up a big block oil pan sump on a c4 corvette youll want to start by installing the block in the car and test fitting your current oil pan, noting and carefully measuring the clearance on the front (K FRAME) for the damper diameter and front oil pan sump, and be aware of the braces "see gree arrows"that prevent many UN-modified oil pans from fitting correctly, some duct tape and some card board can be very useful in mocking up a modified sump, and measuring the required depth, needed, so it helps to have the headers and starter and oil filter in place as you mock up and plan the oil pan design.
youll also want to notice that the oil pump sticks down about 7.25" (MEASURE YOURS DIFFERENT BRANDS VARY SLIGHTLY) you can weld up a 7-8 quart baffled sump but it takes planing and careful measuring and you might find a remote oil filter is a good option.



next. yeah you can get 500hp and 500 ft lbs very easily from an N/A sbc, but it won,t be traffic friendly to drive, hey throw a turbo on and 700 plus ft lbs and 700 hps plus easily with in reach, but with the mandatory inter cooler, bigger radiator ETC.,ETC, your at the same weight and more complex than the BBC swap, and yes the turbo will allow the car to be faster than the average c5-c6 but it costs a bunch. look theres lots of options, each has its benefits and flaws, you could even just install a new C6 engine, or add a centrifugal supercharger to your stroker SBC.
but the fact remains, you can buy a decent c4 for under $7K-$15K and throw a $9K-$13K BBC engine in it and for under $22-$30K have a faster car (at least for 1/4 mile acceleration) than a zo6.....each of us has a choice and if your not into BBC engines you may not like that option, that doesn,t make it non-workable for the more mechanically inclined engine swap crowd!
personally opening the hood to display a nice BBC in a c4 seems to me to be the better option and it shows more hot rodding skills than paying $70K plus for a Zo6

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L60E ... E_Swap.htm

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8961&p=31945#p31945

how do you install a 454-502 in a C-4

Early std cars (84/85 at least ) never had the extra frame braces.
It and the 2 braces from X -member to frame under engine were part of the Z51 handling option to support
the frame rails, and to tie them together.
All became std on all later cars
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you can temporarily do away with the solid brace in the front, to gain extra swap access room by making the upper front brave removable, so that it unbolts. ID suggest (4) 5/16" end plates welded in place and bolted with at least (4) grade 8 3/8" bolts on each end plate.
yes you can make a custom brace that bolts in place, obviously the cuts must be vertical and parallel and carefully measured and youll need 4 matched end plates welded and drilled correctly but any decent fabrication shop should be able to easily do it once you explain whats needed
If your going to swap in some engine like a killer 700 hp 540 cubic inch big block, adding a roll cage to strengthen the frame and add considerable extra rigidity or stop flexing is a really good idea as it tends to limit the fiberglass body cracks that might result from the constant stress the far larger and far higher torque levels might cause
http://www.andysautosport.com/products/ ... 400DO.html
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I have seen it done (having a car with a welded removable brace) I know it was tig welded and its been driving several years and even raced occasionally so I doubt its highly stressed or subjected to stress levels that cause problems , keep in mind all most all the potential stress on that upper cross brace is in compression not tension or torsion so its not a highly stressed application

if you put a bbc with aluminum heads, intake and water pump in , in place of the standard iron small block you only gain about 50-70 lbs, not enough difference to cause any problems at all, , I have worked on several of these swaps now and Im in the process of getting ready to do another one,heres whats needed
steering rack mounts cut and re welded 3/4"-1" farther forward (that of course means the power steering pump lines/steering shaft, need to be extended 3/4" also)
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YOU SHOULD START WITH A CAREFUL TEST FIT AND MEASUREMENTS TO SEE EXACTLY WHATS REQUIRED

small notch (starting at rear and going 3" forward from rear edge X 3/4"deep X 5" wide works well in rear top surface of (K) frame cross member to clear damper and pulley)(if you use an internally balanced big block with the 6.75" diam. damper you can most likely skip the notch but with the 8" diam. damper its necessary, and some oil pans will also require the back 1 1/2 of the (K) frame to be notched at an angle sloping to the rear to clear them so you'll probably need the notch of some kind anyway)(and yes before you ask you could shim/modify the motor mounts up to get the clearance, but that would slightly raise the weight center and slightly effect the handling, and that also makes the windshield motor and distributor clearance a bigger problem)
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air conditioner shrouding fiber glass on pass side foot well around the air conditioning on the firewall needs to be modified for clearance, (the fiber glass cover from a LT5 makes this easy)(evaporator housing cover)

1971 bbc vette exhaust manifolds (or custom headers) and all brackets/pulleys (mods needed here)
there are several shorty style headers that are designed for the c3 bbc corvettes that are easily modified to fit
these c3 headers fit on the pass side but require re-routing a tube and re-welding or denting primaries to clear the application on the drivers side, which can be done by an experienced welder or fabricator easier than building custom headers from scratch
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-68090/

(see the post on building your own headers)
theres a good deal of info in this section

viewforum.php?f=56
the oil pan you use needs to be only 7.5" deep max, from the pan bottom to the block, and 7" would be better

3" hood scoop unless you run a low rise intake and carb or a low height efi system

for a step by step instructions with pictures get a copy of the august 1998 vette magazine article( starts on page 34)it helped quite a bit the first time

otherwise its almost a drop in deal, but keep in mind that you'll need a bigger radiator, the trans will not last to long with that amount of torque and it may not pass emission testing and a small size starter is needed, and your windshield wiper motor needs to be replaced with a much smaller one,(I don,t remember where we got them but a little measuring and a trip to the salvage yard took care of that problem, and no tall valve covers don,t work well!

http://www.myphotosonline.biz/albums/ph ... %2FHeaders

btw install the short block then add the heads with it in the car its FAR EASIER THAT WAY than trying to install the long block

BTW the earlier cars like the 1984-86 (Im not sure what years exactly)don't have the heavier forward frame bracing above the steering rack that makes this swap more difficult to do! I have worked on this swap on the 84, 85, and 86 cars so I know they work fine, the later cars like the 1992 with the heavier forward frame braces above the steering rack look like they will be more difficult but still do-able with some extra work, btw theres a guy at ARIZONA SPEED AND MARINE that has one you might want to talk to .just a few points
an all aluminum bbc WEIGHS LESS THAN AN IRON SMALL BLOCK so the HANDLING IMPROVES
an aluminum head, intake and water pump bring a bbc engines weight to within 70 lbs of the stock iron small block, so handling is almost unchanged

any un-supercharged small block not using nitrous or some other power adder that makes over 550 hp is highly likely to be at least somewhat un-streetable as a daily driver and your not likely to build a small block that makes "764 HP & 695 lb/ft at the flywheel" likely costs as much or more than a big block making similar power, look, good engine choice
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it will of course depend on the engine combo you chose , and traction is usually a problem but low 12 second to mid 11 seconds is not at all hard for the cars Ive worked on. now you could build a kick butt engine and get into the 10s with ease but at that hp level the rear suspension and rear end itself tends to need work! the strong point here is that unlike a high hp sbc engine with nitrous and a huge cam, these cars are relatively easy to drive as daily drivers and the passing power with just part throttle is necessary to feel to be believed. plus the viper guys get really upset when you pull next to them at 50mph and pull away like they have a dead cylinder with the better chevy bbc engine combos, but you really are better off with aluminum heads/water pump and intake. btw getting a kick butt bbc is very easy, and far cheaper than a viper engine. btw the 700r4 trans or the manual trans that comes in the corvettes won,t handle a 550hp plus engine for long, but the 4L80E OVERDRIVE automatic TRANSMISSION chevy installs in the larger trucks can be used (EXPENSIVE BUT THATS WHAT I BOUGHT FOR MY FUTURE SWAP)






theres no way a c-4 will exactly match the weight distribution and handling of a C6 BUT the strait line acceleration CAN be equaled or exceeded with a decent well thought thru and executed BBC swap, and at about less than 1/2 the price of a new Zo6, and its no trick to easily exceed the hp of the stock Zo6, depending on the extent of the mods you want, and your fabricating and shopping skills somewhere between 15K and 35K should get you one very fast BBC C4 and that price COULD easily include the car itself, if you've already go the car you can knock a good chunk like 5K-15K of the cost off the total.
PLUS if your like me, having built or modified most of the car yourself, and owning something rather unique, has a strong draw to my pride of ownership vs paying huge bucks for a Z06 that anyone with a fat wallet can own.
plus theres nothing that sounds like the rumble and rolling lope of a high compression, BBC with over 500 cubic inch displacement.
personally opening the hood to display a nice BBC in a c4 seems to me to be the better option and it shows more hot rodding skills than paying $70K plus for a Zo6, and I like the looks of the C4 better

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BTW theres at least three versions of the big block engine

From Here:

http://reviews.ebay.com/Big-Block-Ch...00000001563647

Mark IV: The engine that most people think of as the "big block Chevy". Released partway into the 1965 model year as a 396, superseding the older 409. It is a development of the Mark II and using similar but not identical canted valve (semi-hemi/porcupine) cylinder heads. It was later expanded to 402 (often still labeled as a 396, or even a 400,) a 427, a 454, and a few "special" engines were produced in the late '60's for offshore boat racing as a 482. There was a 366 and a 427 version that each had a .400 taller deck height to accommodate .400 taller pistons using four rings instead of the more usual three rings. These tall-deck engines were used only in medium-duty trucks (NOT in pickup trucks--think in terms of big farm trucks, garbage trucks, dump trucks, school buses, etc.) The tall-deck blocks all had 4-bolt main caps, forged crankshafts, and the strongest of the 3/8 bolt connecting rods. All-out performance engines used 7/16 bolt connecting rods, along with other changes. This engine family was discontinued in 1990, with the Gen 5 appearing in 1991.

Gen 5: General Motors made substantial revisions to the Mark IV engine, and the result was christened "Gen 5" when it was released for the 1991 model year as a 454. There were 502 cu. in. versions, but never installed in a production vehicle, the 502s were over-the-parts-counter only. Changes to the Gen 5 as compared to the Mk IV included, but are not limited to: rear main seal (and therefore the crankshaft and block) were changed to accept a one-piece seal, oiling passages were moved, the mechanical fuel pump provisions were removed from the block casting, the machined boss for a clutch bracket was eliminated, the cylinder heads lost the ability to adjust the valve lash, and the coolant passages at the top of the cylinder block were revised. The changes to the coolant passage openings meant that installing Mk IV cylinder heads on a Gen 5 block could result in coolant seepage into the lifter valley. Frankly, the changes (except for the one-piece rear main seal) were all easily recognized as cost-cutting measures which also removed some quality and/or utility. All told, the Gen 5 engine was not well regarded by the Chevy enthusiasts because of the changes to the coolant passages and the lack of an adjustable valve train. As always, the aftermarket has provided reasonable fixes for the problems. The Gen 5 lasted only until 1995.

1996 and up are MARK VI
they share some of the characteristics of both earlier versions and add some different features
YOU NEED THIS BOOK

http://www.amazon.com/Rebuilding-Gen-Bi ... 617&sr=1-1

4l80e install in a c4 vette info
http://jobyteknik.homeip.net/corvette/2003-10-13_4L80E/

http://www.joby.se/corvette/mods/2004-12-26_4l80/

http://www.fbperformance.com/ViewTransm ... ssionID=89

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L60E ... E_Swap.htm

swapping to a MUCH STRONGER 4L80E trans in a c4 vette

or TKO


viewtopic.php?f=33&t=586

now notching the frame is not mandatory because with the correctly modified oil pan it can be done without notching the frame but notching the frame makes several oil pans fit

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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-49550
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Edelbrock and Pat Musi are a powerful combination, and Edelbrock Musi Carbureted 555 C.I.D. 676HP crate engines are no less impressive. They start with a Dart Big-M block and load them with a Scat forged steel crank, forged H-beam rods, and forged pistons. The top end is finished with a hydraulic roller camshaft, roller rockers, Victor Jr. manifold, Thunder Series AVS 800cfm carburetor and the big feature--E-CNC cylinder heads. These cylinder heads are CNC-ported where it counts to achieve optimal airflow, gaining you maximum horsepower and torque in high performance street applications. Plus, the key advantage is the stock location of the exhaust port, allowing you to use readily available, off-the-shelf headers. These Edelbrock Musi Carbureted 555 C.I.D. 676HP crate engines come ready to perform just bolt them in and fine tune them to pack big block power in your ride.

trust me when I tell you that you could spend that much, or even more cash, rather easily and not have nearly as good of an engine built, at many engine builders shops or thru careful research and planing spend a bit less and build a significantly better and more durable engine!
MUSI used to have a shop in my neighborhood and while hes talented, keep in mind EDELBROCK is making a significant profit and hes collaborating with edelbrock to use their components in the build where ever he can rather than select the best available component in every part selected, now that MAY or MAY NOT be an edelbrock supplied part in every case , so its not necessarily the best value, but you can be assured that its at least a well tested and durable combo.
the 572 CID G.M. crate engine is a similar example of a well tested crate engine, that is built under similar limitations

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19201334
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Chevrolet Performance Parts largest, most powerful engine is here. These ZZ572/720R's are built around an all-new generation VI one piece main seal tall deck 572 cid with approximately 12.0:1 compression, 720 horsepower at 6250 rpm, and 685 ft./lbs. of torque at 4500 rpm with a recommended max rpm of 6750. These all-new race blocks have a forged 4340 steel crank, shot peened forged 4340 H-beam rods, and forged aluminum pistons with full floating wrist pins. Redesigned rectangular port aluminum cylinder heads with 118cc combustion chambers, Stainless steel valves at, 2.25 in. intake side and 1.88 in. exhaust side. Mechanical roller camshafts are used with valve lift being .714 in. intake, and .714 in. exhaust side, duration at .050 in. for intake is 266 degrees and 274 degrees exhaust side. Hardened chromoly retainers are used with dual valve springs 1.50 in. coil diameter. Aluminum roller rockers with 1.7:1 ratios, high performance one-piece push rods are installed. New Chevrolet Performance Parts tall deck single plane intake manifold and a 1090 CFM King Demon carburetor delivers the air. A multiple spark discharge distributor handles ignition, spark plugs and wire are included. New screened and louvered windage trays and high rpm torsional dampers are used.


the correctly done BBC c4 swap makes the c4 run with the more modern corvettes in the power range most of us really enjoy, consider that 345-405 hp was about max from a stock c4 and simply swapping in a mild big block can boost both the torque and power curve far above that range, and with the correct aluminum heads, intake and water pump a bbc weights only about 75 lbs more than the l98/lt1 it replaces
Ive helped on 7 of these swaps in the last 12 years and while each was different all of them ran at least as well as the LT4 vettes and most performed remarkable better
look at the cost vs performance

a new z06 costs over $70K
a new 5 speed manual transmission and a 500 cubic inch big block, better brakes and a heavy duty rear and other mods on you c4 could cost you $20-$25k or less if you have some parts already,and you would have something far more unique, for a few weeks work, personally I think the c4 looks better anyway

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=151
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=4576&p=12177#p12177
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http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=244

heres a post showing one BIG BLOCK C4 corvette hood scoop on a big block swap
cutter1 wrote: I Started hood some will like other oh well.
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Think i will cut scoop along side to lower
cowl near windshield and to even top.
Don't care for the pointing up.

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ITS NICE TOO SEE THE HOOD SCOOP AND PAINT JOB , (CAR ABOVE)WORKED OUT WELL (SAME CAR BELOW)
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ITS,GREAT to see further progress! youll have a rather unique car and something to be proud of once its complete! while Im sure everyone will have a different opinion , I personally can,t see using a hood scoop thats quite that massive in size, it just looks like it would block a bit more of the windshield vision,area you need to see thru to allow the car to be safely driven under all conditions.
so yes, you might want to modify it or select a different hood scoop, I know that theres dozens to choose from, and with some fabrication skills you obviously have, youll have even more options.
luckily you can most likely cut a section out of each side panel of the hood scoop to modify its height and contour and correct the surface stress distortion (LIGHT GREEN ARROWS) that seems to indicate the curve of the hood doesn,t match the hood scoop lower edge curve, and because fiberglass is reasonably easy to work with its not very expensive or difficult, to fabricate or correct minor issues with.
theres little doubt that a slightly smaller hood height can be made to work if the induction system selected is carefully measured and selected for maximum or at least reasonably low clearance. but in most cases you will need a hood scoop to clear the intake system.

a HOOD SCOOP LIKE ONE BELOW THIS EASILY CLEARS SOME BIG BLOCK ENGINE SWAPS IN A C4 CORVETTE
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » October 14th, 2008, 6:44 pm

use of aluminum HEADS, INTAKE MANIFOLD and WATER PUMP is advised to make the total increase in engine weight almost meaningless as a handling factor, BUT most guys Ive seen do the swap or Ive helped do the swap have used iron head engines simply because thats what they had when they started,(most used aluminum intakes,) theres no huge loss in handling unless your doing autocross type driving and even then the extra tq provided from the larger engine with a change in your driving style tends to make it a minor problem at most.

THERE ARE IMPRESSIVE BIG BLOCK CRATE ENGINES
http://www.ultrastreet.net/engines/598_ ... owdeck.php

http://high-performance-engines.com/Mer ... Code=HP44C

btw, Im reasonably sure your aware that theres heavier sway bars and springs and shocks that can be swapped in IF you really want to maximize the handling, but Id spend more effort in a larger radiator, oil cooler, trans cooler and large baffled oil pan than even thinking about what an extra 120 lbs on the nose of the car does to the handling, think about it,do you feel a huge decrease in handling with your girl friend in the car?

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THE ZL1 aluminum block makes over 550hp when correctly tuned with minor mods and a good roller cam, and weight is very close to what an all iron small block weights

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THE 572 is the largest factory available big block crate engine, and in it performance version it makes over 750hp when correctly tunned with minor mods and a good roller cam
http://corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/c4/susp_chart.html

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3954&p=17963&hilit=cool+filter+airflow#p17963

http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?pf_id=50745&dept_id=1793
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heres pictures of a guys engine swap, bbc c4


during a bbc swap, posted by 780ripper
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » December 28th, 2008, 12:30 pm

I ran and still (at least temporarily)run a DANA 36 in my 1985 vette with a 383 that makes about 475 flywheel hp BEFORE I hit the nitrous....if I don,t use slicks and only street tires the traction (or lack of it) acts like a fuze that tends to prevent the full torque loads from impacting the rear suspension, but I don,t do hard launches either, I baby the car off the line and play catch-up in the mid and far track, the few times Ive run slicks Ive twisted off u-joints and half shafts rather quickly and Im sure the rear is marginal,but the dana 36 has held up so far, but even the dana 44 is MARGINAL (but obviously better) in my opinion.
In my big block 1968 vette I destroyed the stock rear the first time I used slicks, I installed a custom fitted dana 60 live axle and tubbed the rear, adding a 4 link suspension on that car, it cost me a small fortune but with a 13.7:1 cpr 496 BBC I didn,t really have a choice.
Im on a pension so moneys darn tight but eventually Ill install a similar engine and a 4L80E trans in my 1985 vette and a similar rear suspension

http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2234

you might find HOOVERS MODS INTERESTING

http://www.ideasandsolutions.biz/Hoover/top.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/drag-ra ... vette.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-tech ... -kits.html

http://www.myphotosonline.biz/albums/ph ... FInstalled

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but keep in mind hes using a ford 9" which is lighter in weight and lower in strength than a dana 60

95blklt1
I posted this bit of info, that will be useful if your swapping to a big block, because the stock radiator won,t be adequate

you tend to find the better radiators cost more, but are better built and more efficient

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-6 ... plications (griffen 3.5" thick, $727)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dwr-1139084a (dewitts 3.25" thick 388 square inches of core face $525)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bci-62031 (becool 2" thick 360 square inches of core face $525)



HERES a Dewitt aluminum rad and wow is it a lot thicker! Here is the old:
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And the new:
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it should be obvious the DEWITT ALUMINUM radiator (pictured above) provides far more heat transfer surface area, Theres several well known sources for quality aluminum radiators and just as obviously theres clearance and space issues to consider.(measure carefully and get the most effective aluminum radiator you can afford because the stock 1.5" thick radiator won,t work well)
most big blocks used in engine swaps produce a good deal more power than a stock SBC and burn a good deal more fuel, this results in a good deal more heat thats generated that needs to be transferred efficiently to outside air flow,the engines power generating extra power seems to always require a larger size radiator , now obviously without knowing the radiators fluid capacity,surface area and air and coolant flow rates I can,t tell if your radiator is fully up to the task at hand, but the symptoms that are usually described, of the engine heat building rapidly if the cars not moving tend to point to a need for a higher air flow rate thru the radiator.
I generally use 3 core 1.5 inch tube designs ,that are at least 3" thick if given a choice, but theres a good many factors involved, and adding a 200 amp alternator or a more efficient fan and adding an additional oil or trans cooler could very easily make a huge difference, as it lowers the heat loads on the cooling system



http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3954

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=149

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=9489&p=34906&hilit=swivel+t+stat#p34906

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=74&p=35559&hilit=anodes#p35559

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1540&p=4791&hilit=aluminum+corvette+radiator#p4791

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=853&p=1549&hilit=aluminum+corvette+radiator#p1549

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=755&p=1080&hilit=aluminum+corvette+radiator#p1080
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » April 13th, 2009, 5:07 pm

THE BIG BLOCK/C4 SWAP JUST GOT EASIER, THESE GUYS HAVE AN ADAPTER KIT THAT ALLOWS YOU TO INSTALL A 4l80e AND USE THE ORIGINAL DRIVE SHAFT, NO COMPUTER,AND THE STOCK c-BEAM THE ADAPTER AND THE HARDENED 4L80E OUTPUT SHAFT ARE SOLD AS A KIT FOR ABOUT $750, THE
4l80E trans set up for full manual control with that kit and all the best internal parts will cost in the $4500-$5300 range

the 700r4 will eventually fail if your running over 450 ft lbs of torque, PERIOD!

there ARE FULL MANUAL CONTROL SHIFT KITS AVAILABLE FOR THE 4L80E
so you don,t use a controller
this requires you to change gears manually but theres no clutch pedal to press

http://www.artmorrison.com/multi-link-IRS.php

there are also 6 speed versions
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TCI-2 ... mage=large

http://www.performancetransparts.com/in ... &ProdID=71

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L80E.htm

http://bowlertransmissions.com/
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the C-beam differs between the dana 36 and dana 44 rear differentials
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"4L80E in C4 Corvette Adapter (1984 - 1996). Swap your 700R4 / 4L60E transmission to the much stronger 4L80E transmission with our new double strength case hardened output shaft and adapter kit. At this time we have in development an adapter kit for the C4 Corvette to replace your 700R4 / 4L60E transmission with the much stronger 4L80E transmission. This 4L80E transmission will be the same length as your 700R4 / 4L60E transmission making it possible to reuse your existing 27 spline driveshaft and C-beam. This is the worlds first 700R4 / 4L60E to 4L80E swap direct replacement. All that needs to be changed on the 4L80E transmission is the tail housing and output shaft. The full manual shift model works without a computer.'
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BIGGER

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BIGGER
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/HPIM1242.JPG
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driveloop2
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THIS GOES A long way TOWARDS REMOVING MUCH OF THE POTENTIAL PROBLEMS THE WEAK STOCK 700r4 TRANS POSED


add one of these aluminum big blocks and LOOSE 100LBS off the front end compared to a small block, and more than double the power, even with the 4L80E the car will weight about the same but the center of gravity will be lower and further back
http://www.theengineshop.com/pdfs/merlin.pdf

SIX SPEED MANUAL WITH OVER DRIVE

http://americanpowertrain.com/i-8521636 ... or-gm.html

you can use a computer to control the trans

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/fram...60E_4L80E.html

http://www.compushift.com/

http://www.highperformancecars.com/crosley/transize.htm

http://www.levelten.com/store/gm/ite...8000_trans.htm

http://www.duramax.bizhosting.com/My...on_control.htm

BUT the 4L80E can BE converted TO FULL MANUAL CONTROL

http://www.drivetrain.com/transgoshiftkits.html

http://www.eatmyshifts.com/combo_kits.htm

http://www.txchange.com/tgp.htm

http://www.automatictransmission.com...sp?NewsId=8611



http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L80E.htm

#C480. 4L80E in C4 Corvette Adapter (1984 - 1996). Swap your 700R4 / 4L60E transmission to the much stronger 4L80E transmission with our new double strength case hardened output shaft and adapter kit. At this time we have an adapter kit for the C4 Corvette to replace your 700R4 / 4L60E transmission with the much stronger 4L80E transmission. This 4L80E transmission will be the same length as your 700R4 / 4L60E transmission making it possible to reuse your existing 27 spline driveshaft and C-beam. All that needs to be changed on the 4L80E transmission is the tail housing and output shaft. The full manual shift model works without a computer. This tail housing is made of 6061T6 aircraft aluminum. Cost $599.00


THESE THREADs may give you some info

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...ead.php?t=1756


http://www.joby.se/corvette/mods/2004-12-26_4l80/

http://www.joby.se/corvette/mods//2001-0X11_diff/

BTW if you think your corvettes dana 36 or dana 44 independent rear differential will stand up to a Healthy small block with nitrous or a well built big block engine swap,once you used slicks with decent traction, you might be rather shocked, at what might result.
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » April 13th, 2009, 10:04 pm

ralph wrote:Some observations from years of experience:

1. If you have a stick and sticky tires and make any kind of power, the Dana is the wrong rear end. It will not make too many passes before it grenades.

2. I've seen several D44s go as quick as 1.30s, but they wont be reliable enough to race on the regular basis. Sort of like playing Russia roulette. Insanity would break the drivers side spindle on almost every pass.

3. 1.8s: D36 hit or miss; D44 will last for many many runs

4. 1.6-1.7s: D44 required to have any reliability. The D44 will become hit or miss, but several have lasted pretty long without problems

5. 1.5s: D44 will generally last about 100-200 passess at best. With cryo'd parts and good spindles and spicer ujoints they will generally last 200-300 passes. Eventually the spider gears will weld themselves to the shaft and break. Of course i've had one with good parts last 2 runs, then the case broke in half.

6. 1.4s: can be done with a spool, but the spindles and ujoints become the weak link. This becomes the point where a solid axle is necessary if you plan to race on a regular basis.

7. Stock half shafts are pretty strong, but i've seen them twist in half coming out of the burnout with a virtually stock car. So they can be hit or miss as well. Carry spares.

Good luck
Last edited by ralph;

87vette70TA wrote:No one has ever been able to build an affordable C4 IRS Rear to handle a BBC Brute Torque longterm.
By affordable I mean under $1500 bucks like most other musclecars turned into Race Cars 500- 1500 HP.
Weakest link in a C4 Dana 36 & Dana 44 rear is the shallow Gear Tooth Nomeclature design. Poor Root Depth compared to a 9" , Ford 8.8 & Dana 60.
Skinny Cross pin in Carrier is the other.
Then the Aluminum case & batwing Flexes hard under severe torque loads.
What you can do is try to find. Straight 140 W GL6 Hypoid Gear Oil.
Its hard to find.
Cushion the Ring gear under hard launches WOT with a BBC.
Do a better job than any multi viscosity 75-90 or 85-140.
If Richmond Gear made Nickle 9310 Gearsets like for a Dana 60 - 9-3/4" Rear it would help. Doubles Ultimate torque capacity of Dana 60's.
2000 + Flywheel engine Power in Ft/lbs.
But the C4 Corvette market is so small & guys are cheep & want miracles for nothing.
9310 Gears are expensive.
Short street life in a few thousand miles.
But at the Dragstrip 1/4 mile at a time, 250-500 passes a year, 9310 gears would last up to 20 years.


http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?hid=026DK73488&trk=12

STRANGE ENGINEERING NOW SELLS A DANA 60 IRS DIFFERENTIAL with the DANA 60 9.75" GEARS
yeah pricey but far stronger than most other options and it retains the IRS differential for road racing traction

http://www.strangeengineering.net/indep ... embly.html
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RELATED INFO
http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/tec ... index.html


btw a garaunteed 450 hp/460 ft lbs option in that $5000 range your talking about, and unlike the supercharger on a old engine with who knows ho much mileage you start with a new engine with a warranty

CT502PC2
Engine Specifications:
* Horsepower- 455
* Torque- 460 ft/lbs
* Compression Ratio- 8.75:1
* Recommended Fuel- 92 octane
* Max Recommended RPM- 5500
* Block- 4-bolt iron
* Crankshaft- Forged steel
* Pistons- Forged
* Connecting Rods- Forged steel, shot peened
* Camshaft- Hydraulic roller
* Valve lift (intake/exhaust):.510"/.540"
* Duration @ .050" (intake/exhaust): 211deg/230deg
* Rocker arms- Stamped steel 1.7:1
* Cylinder Heads- steel rectangle port
* Bore x Stroke- 4.47" x 4.00"
* Intake Manifold- Edelbrock dual plane aluminum
* Warranty- 12 month/12,000 milePart # Description Emissions ID Price Add to Cart
CT502PC2 YearOne Power Crate steel headed 502 crate engine assembly. $4989.00



btw heres swapping to a solid rear info


Solid rear info
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-tech-performance/1939107-feast-your-eyes-upon-the-finished-product-solid-axle-conversion-kits.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/drag-racing/1922566-carrolls-rod-and-racecraft-bolt-in-straight-axle-kit.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-tech-performance/1880225-solid-rear-project-started-woohoo-pics-inside.html

http://www.dfwmotorsport.com/Fairlane/9inchrearends.htm

http://www.myphotosonline.biz/albums/ph ... FInstalled

Speedo gears
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-tech-performance/2255884-re-gears-and-speedo-help.html

IF YOUVE GOT DEEP pockets
aluminum's FAR easier to repair once damaged as TIG welding ALUMINUM is far simpler than nickle brazing cast iron, aluminum dissipates heat faster, aluminum,s far easier to machine, and if your doing some mods you can weld stuff too aluminum far easier
but the cast iron blocks USUALLY got an edge in stiffness
the big problem is COST,

http://www.brodix.com/blocks/5inchblock.html

http://www.brodix.com/blocks/4.500block.html

http://www.dartheads.com/products/engin ... ig-blocks/

http://www.dartheads.com/products/engin ... locks.html

http://www.cnblocks.com/

http://www.jegs.com/p/World-Products/Wo ... 3/10002/-1

another option is a floating solid rear differential
SKI DOWN IT sells these

http://www.azzatochips.com/

http://www.azzatochips.com/C4_Suspensions.html

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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby Randy_W » April 14th, 2009, 7:00 am

That's a great combo and fairly cheap to build. I'd like a '94-'96 with an 8100 for a cruiser. 8-)
Randy
Don't mess with old men, we didn't get that way by being stupid!
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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » September 17th, 2009, 12:06 pm

Info below provided by member Blutoyz. Thanks for the input.


Hey Grumpy you will have to revise your sticky because the stock wiper motor will fit...

Image


I never checked it before because we all thought it wouldn't fit...go figure:crazy:

I just happened to look at it closer and with a little persuasion..

Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » January 6th, 2010, 11:43 am

Image

TKO-600 G.M.


Image
TKO 500 FORD

http://www.americanpowertrain.com/popwindow2.html

http://www.americanpowertrain.com/tremec-transmissions.htm

If I had the cash ID jump on a couple of there tko 600 extremes for my corvettes...
being retired and low on cash sucks in some ways
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » April 22nd, 2010, 8:40 am

572crewcab posted these pictures of his BBC C4 SWAP

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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » September 9th, 2010, 12:22 pm

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viewtopic.php?f=54&t=4576&p=12177#p12177
the headman tight tubes shorty headers are reported too fit the big block C4 engine swap ,with out modifications"
yeah your correct they can,t be really effective at scavenging but if they fit its obviously one option some guys will take rather than pay for custom headers
Image

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hed-68510
BTW on my last BIG BLOCK C4 swap I had TWO 3" (X) pipes and got a bit creative and well built a DUAL (X) exhaust that was similar to this PICTURE BELOW. the result was a rather unique exhaust tone, a nice smooth rumble note in the sound and a very nice smooth low and mid rpm torque curve, now Im not sure if the exhaust mod added or subtracted from the power curve because I didn,t try it with a different exhaust config. but I got the strong impression that it helped, I know it made the sound distinctive and more mellow

Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » September 26th, 2011, 12:32 pm

ok all you transmission guys, IM also VERY interested in the answers because I purchased a 4L80E to install in my 1985 corvette when I do the swap to the big block engine , because theres no 700r4 thats going to handle the torque numbers that engine will produce, so any info will be greatly appreciated, on how to find cheap ECU/TRANS controllers OR how to modify the 4L80E trans to full manual control. hopefully theres some knowledgeable trans guys on THIS SITE that can help!!?? converters available ? lock up/non-lock-up? performance shift kits? ETC. IM SURE MOST GUYS CAN USE GOOD INFO! heres all the links Ive found......... NO! NOT ALL THOSE QUESTIONS ARE FULLY ANSWERED IN THE LINKS
BTW, ADDING a transmission cooler with an auxiliary electric fan ,if properly installed removes a good deal of the heat load from the radiator, as will a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan, and an auxiliary oil cooler. so you may want to add those to help keep the larger engine cool in a C4 corvete,obviously
youll want to measure carefully before you purchase a trans cooler and remember the location you select will need room for BOTH the trans cooler and routing the feed and return lines and fittings, Id suggest you select a trans cooler that has AN#6 line size but AN#8 is better still, lines and at least a 800-1000cfm rated fan
heres the one I run on my corvette...mounted where the spare tire holder used to be
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRM-12318/
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=662&p=34937&hilit=trans+cooler#p34937

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=7704&p=26227&hilit=trans+cooler#p26227

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=176
does anyone have the part number for that manual converion KIT,? or other usefull info?, instructions on the conversion? programing and installation info on the electronic controllers?, part numbers and prices? other options?
does anyone know where a diagram for the connections can be found?
differances between the differant year 4L80E transmissions?
how do the 4L80E trans differ from year to year?
what are the part numbers for the TRANS CONTROLLERS
WHAT STALL SPEED CONVERTERS ARE AVAILABLE and with lock-up?
which are the best built?
what cross members fit?
what drive shaft yoke? part #?

HERES SOME INFO ON THE 4L80E

IF ANYONE READING THRU THIS THREADS IN THE PROCESS OF DOING A BIG BLOCK /C4, SWAP , PLEASE HELP OUT, POST ALL THE RELATED INFO AND CLEAR PICTURES THAT YOU CAN< ,ANY USEFUL INFO IS WARMLY ,and GRATEFULLY RECEIVED, AS IT WILL HELP MAKE THE SWAP EASIER FOR THOSE LATER

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L80E.htm

http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog ... l_kit.html





"why not go with a TH400 and a Gear Vendors overdrive?"

thats a valid question and a valid choice,
the reason is simply that I had a next door neighbor that had a new 4L80E sitting in a crate that he payed about $2000 for that I bought from him for even less when he found out that he had purchased the transmission for no reason,the problem with his truck was an engine not the transmission (problem was extreme noise grinding sounds,etc.and truck would not move but engine appeared to run fine, but turned over erratically at times and was hard to start)
can you say (center of flexplate sheared out of flexplate and no longer attached to most of flexplate and tq converter?)

anyway I purchased a 4L80E at a very good price!
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » December 10th, 2011, 6:10 pm

http://www.corvettefever.com/featuredve ... index.html

It doesn't really take the proverbial shoehorn to install a big-block Chevy in a C4 Corvette. What it really takes is talent and an eye for details. But it doesn't hurt if you're a tool-and-die maker like Cleon Stull of Frederick, Maryland.

Stull's garage has provided shelter for many Corvettes in the past, including a '65 roadster and '86 and '96 coupes. Currently, he owns a '91 ZR2 coupe, a '72 454ci convertible, and an '01 convertible. But, even with all those interesting Corvette configurations, Cleon was looking for something a little uncharacteristic, a car that no one else had. The solution: build a big-block C4 Corvette.

For those not versed in the intricacies of such a swap, let us assure you that the challenge is very real. Our resident engineering expert, Chris Petris of The Corvette Clinic, (see sidebar), will attest to the difficult modifications that are required. But for Cleon, his apparent satisfaction with the final effort validates the old adage: Anything worth doing is worth doing well.

Cleon started with a well-worn '91 Corvette he found on the Internet. While the body was clean, the paint was tired. He installed a Side Effects body kit and applied Twilight Royal Purple paint. Inside, Cleon added saddle leather upholstery but retained the stock configuration for all other components.

Clearly, the biggest changes occurred underhood. The 509ci engine (built by Jeff Bane of County Engine) features a host of horsepower improvements including Lunati rods and camshaft (0.578-inch intake lift, 0.595-inch exhaust lift), and Comp Cams rocker arms. Compression is 10:1, courtesy of Lunati pistons and Edelbrock cylinder heads.

An Edelbrock Performance intake and a Pro-Flo EFI unit provide the induction, while customized Hedman headers show exhaust gases the way out, complemented by 3-inch-wide stainless steel tubing and Lawrence-Keech mufflers. Cleon machined his own distributor to clear the firewall, and added an HEI electronic distributor. The huge power is transferred to the rear tires through a manual six-speed transmission controlled by a B&M Ripper shifter.

While the car logged 140,000 miles previous to Cleon's ownership, the current configuration is still in shakedown mode with only 500 miles so far. Regardless, Cleon has great confidence in the abilities of his engineering. He, along with technical consultant Bob Loch, have engineered a seemingly bulletproof combination. So well built is the car that we suggested Cleon offer a prepackaged kit so that other Corvette owners could re-create his efforts.

There are two major challenges when attempting to install a big-block into an '84-'96 Corvette. The first is being able to close the hood while preventing the oil pan from hanging dangerously close to the pavement. The second is to retain all the vehicle options we hold so dear.

Specifically, the biggest problems are the power-steering pump and air-conditioning compressor, which come close to the lower crossmember, power-steering rack, and chassis brace. This is where Cleon Stull's 509ci effort shines. All of his custom-made accessory brackets were well planned, with adequate bracing. Cleon even designed and created a self-adjusting serpentine-belt tensioner. If you've ever installed an aftermarket accessory such as air conditioning, you know how difficult it can be simply to ensure belt alignment. Cleon did an excellent job of making all the necessary components come together and fit in tight confines.


The crossmember, or K-frame, that supports the engine required modification to allow clearance for the lower crankshaft pulley and harmonic balancer. Anytime a crucial chassis component is modified, safety is critical, and it's obvious that Stull went that extra mile. The oil pan is close to the pavement, but clearance is adequate. An engine swap requires a careful balance of engine and component placement.

The air cleaner and air-intake system are also well thought out. Obviously, the clearance between the intake system and hood is minimal. The Edelbrock Pro-Flo fuel system allows adequate fuel control and air filtration with minimal hood rise. The billet ignition distributor built by Cleon shows his attention to detail. He machined a completely new housing for the application, which keeps engine rise to a minimum. It is this kind of elaborate workmanship that's required to ensure proper engine placement and chassis compatibility.

It is obvious that Cleon thought about the project before any wrenches were used, and it paid off with a nice, clean, workable installation of a big-block in his C4. My hat is off to Cleon for a job well done. Happy motoring!

-Chris Petris
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » December 10th, 2011, 6:15 pm

http://markitude.wordpress.com/2009/03/ ... -corvette/

Commentary on the trappings of my life

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454 LS6 in an ’89 C4 Corvette
March 31, 2009

In my last post I mentioned some maintenance work on my daily driver, and so I thought I’d share a bit on a project I hope to complete once the new workshop is finished – my other Corvette. I picked up this ’89 in 1997 refreshed the Z51 suspension with new springs, shocks and urethane bushings, then updated the J55 brakes with cross drilled rotors and EBC green pads, and ZR1 5 spoke wheels, 17X9.5 in the front, and 17 X 11 in rear. The six speed was rebuilt, and the heavy 33 lb dual mass flywheel was replaced by a single piece unit for an ’88 that was less than half the weight, along with a different disk and pivot ball since the flywheel was thinner by about 1/2″.

In 1998, I bored the stock 350 motor .030, and added Keith Black Hyper eutectic pistons, an SLP roller cam, full roller crane aluminum rockers and new guide plates, while performing a three angle valve job and minor port clean up on the stock heads. Long tube headers complimented the SLP big mouth intake, siamesed runners and heavily ported upper plenum matched to the dual 58mm throttle body. The factory magnesium rocker covers had internal drippers that did not clear the roller rockers, so I used the composite units from an LT4 and drilled a hole for PCV. This engine ran reasonable well, but the cam I chose probably had too much duration and even with an revised ECM program, never was pleasant to drive in rush hour commutes, and the overall combination just didn’t deliver all I had hoped.

In late 2003 the throw out bearing came apart and as I was between personal garages, with all my serious tools packaged away in storage, I decided to pay a shop to replace the bearing. Taking the transmission out proved to be a watershed moment because the Y pipe was fused to the headers and the shop had to all but destroy the pipe and part of the header collectors to get the transmission out. Ordinarily, this would have just meant a side trip to a muffler shop for some fresh pipe fitting, but I had another plan in mind since my college days. Why not load for bear and swap in a fully built big blog? Here’s how this came about…

I had a well prepared LS6 454 from earlier days gathering dust for over a decade in the garage, and I decided to rebuild it and transplant it into the Corvette.

I disassembled the engine and had the block tanked, checked and honed.

I re-assembled with fresh bearings and rings. I had been running iron oval port head that had been fully ported and the bowl areas blended, but I wanted to improve performance and shed weight. I found a deal on some aluminum rectangular port heads on ebay that had been o-ringed and snapped them up.

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454 LS6 in an ’89 C4 Corvette
March 31, 2009

In my last post I mentioned some maintenance work on my daily driver, and so I thought I’d share a bit on a project I hope to complete once the new workshop is finished – my other Corvette. I picked up this ’89 in 1997 refreshed the Z51 suspension with new springs, shocks and urethane bushings, then updated the J55 brakes with cross drilled rotors and EBC green pads, and ZR1 5 spoke wheels, 17X9.5 in the front, and 17 X 11 in rear. The six speed was rebuilt, and the heavy 33 lb dual mass flywheel was replaced by a single piece unit for an ’88 that was less than half the weight, along with a different disk and pivot ball since the flywheel was thinner by about 1/2″.

In 1998, I bored the stock 350 motor .030, and added Keith Black Hyper eutectic pistons, an SLP roller cam, full roller crane aluminum rockers and new guide plates, while performing a three angle valve job and minor port clean up on the stock heads. Long tube headers complimented the SLP big mouth intake, siamesed runners and heavily ported upper plenum matched to the dual 58mm throttle body. The factory magnesium rocker covers had internal drippers that did not clear the roller rockers, so I used the composite units from an LT4 and drilled a hole for PCV. This engine ran reasonable well, but the cam I chose probably had too much duration and even with an revised ECM program, never was pleasant to drive in rush hour commutes, and the overall combination just didn’t deliver all I had hoped.

In late 2003 the throw out bearing came apart and as I was between personal garages, with all my serious tools packaged away in storage, I decided to pay a shop to replace the bearing. Taking the transmission out proved to be a watershed moment because the Y pipe was fused to the headers and the shop had to all but destroy the pipe and part of the header collectors to get the transmission out. Ordinarily, this would have just meant a side trip to a muffler shop for some fresh pipe fitting, but I had another plan in mind since my college days. Why not load for bear and swap in a fully built big blog? Here’s how this came about…

I had a well prepared LS6 454 from earlier days gathering dust for over a decade in the garage, and I decided to rebuild it and transplant it into the Corvette.

I disassembled the engine and had the block tanked, checked and honed.

454block

I re-assembled with fresh bearings and rings. I had been running iron oval port head that had been fully ported and the bowl areas blended, but I wanted to improve performance and shed weight. I found a deal on some aluminum rectangular port heads on ebay that had been o-ringed and snapped them up.

454heads

I also picked up an arizona speed and marine tuned port injection system for the big chevy, along with the small external coil style HEI distributor for clearance. I upgraded to 36 lb injectors, and found a short style, reverse rotation water pump, along with a flat crank pulley.

So, facing the mangled exhaust on the small block, and having the fresh big block on the stand was all the excuse I needed to start the swap. Test fitting the new engine, there were three major interference points that I encountered. First, even with the flat crank pulley, the steering rack was in the way. I plasma cut the mounts, and moved the steering rack forward 1.5″ and rewelded it in place, adding some fabricated gussets on the front of the frame cross member to support the now cantilevered front mounting bolt points on the rack. An extra rag joint took care of the column spacing. We put it on the alignment rack and amazingly toe was only slightly disturbed while caster remained stable.

I wanted to retain the serpentine belt system, and the small block accessory brackets were useless, so I am fabricating my own – my prototype set are made out of steel, and I plan to mill some aluminum ones later. The power steering pump seen just above the alternator in the picture sits forward about 3/8 of an inch off the block face and the mounts are countersunk into a piece of plate. In a later post, I’ll show the completed brackets with some dimension and tips based on my trial and error. A gusseted riser from my power steering mount anchors one end of the factory upper alternator mount. The second interferrence point is the factory heater box – it’s fiberglass and easy enough to cut clearance relief out and glass back in the area, creating a “dent” that will clear the rear of the block and the #8 header primary tube.

The lower intake plenum, injectors, fuel rails have been installed. The intake ports that mate to the upper plenum and the distributor hole are sealed with duct tape. Alas, this project has been in limbo since early 2004 which I started work building the house as a pre-requisite to the shop, which is the pre-requisite to successfully finish projects like this one.

On the driver’s side, there is more room during the install, but not much. The windshield wiper moter must be removed from the firewall when installing the engine, but can be easily re-installed afterward. Dust, rust, and time are delaying me, bit I will see this complete.

Once mechanically complete, there will be a bit of paint and body work as well – there is a third interference in height. The big block intake is 2″+ taller than the combination it replaced, and so the stock hood must be replaced by a reproduction piece with 2.5-3″ more rise in the two center bulges. Once complete, it should appear fairly stock in outward appearance – no flames, wings or crazy paint to telegraph what lies beneath.

What should have been unrivaled five years ago is now obsoleted by the new LS7 powered ZO6 and the LS9 ZR1. Still, I expect to put down some healthy power figures and will have invested but a fraction of the $75-$130K price tag of GM’s uber vettes of today.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » December 10th, 2011, 6:33 pm

Image

Image

Image

Image


when you install a big block engine, keep in mind that the original fuel system is not designed to handle the flow required for a true performance big block engine. It will require some modifications
Image
keep in mind that thats the minimum required, a fuel system has restrictions to flow rates like filters ,fitting and internal line flow restrictions requiring you to have a slightly higher actual supply volume and pressure
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby Provette » July 26th, 2012, 6:02 pm

Here is another
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Re: the c4-bbc engine swap

Postby grumpyvette » July 26th, 2012, 6:54 pm

have you got more pictures/of that big block chevy/c4 swap
is that your corvette?
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
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