Series II 3800 swap questions



Series II 3800 swap questions

Postby 280zxSheik » August 29th, 2013, 5:22 pm

1. I'm doing a 3800 series II/4l60 swap from a 1997 pont firebird into a 1983 Datusn 280zx and need some help on wiring issues. I've hooked the yellow 50amp wire from the original datsun ignition switch to the 3800 starter. I ran the (+) (battery now located in the truck) up to the 3800 starter, starter is grounded to the chassis. Then ran a (+) from the 3800 starter to the 3800 alt. Then I hooked up the datsun alternator wire from the body harness, more specifically the fusable links, to the 3800 altenator. After I run the (+)wires from the fusable links to the rear of the car and on the battery is there anything else I might need to address to start the car? Would the non present firebird bcm cause any issues? Any advice how I should hook up the speedo & tach? How about the 4l60 trans, how do I hook up the VSS?

2. I am also workin on a series II 3800 olds intrigue. The car is a 1999 Olds intrigue originally equiped w/a naturally aspirated L36 that I then swapped a supercharged L67 from a 97 pont GTP in its place. Part of the problem is I can't find any schematics or repair manuals for the thing! The car WILL start with the original L36 pcm and L36 engine wiring harness, but when I try and use the L67 PCM it won't start. Fuel pump is good, its getting spark and everything seems visibly correct. I think the issue maybe the VATS. Since I'm trying to use the l67 pcm it may not be interfacing properly w/the original L36 Intrigue bcm. I know about the vats delete/overide/ect but I fear that the general how to's aren't specific enough for this particular car. Any ideas or assistance?

3. Finally im workin on a 79 280zx w/hacked, ghetto rigged wiring(under dash wiring harness) by the previous owner. A friend bought it an wants me to fix it. It cranks, but will not start. All the relays seem good, the fuseable links are fine and the fuel pump is working and the glass fuses are in good shape. It has spark too. When I check the harness to the fuel pump, its only seeing 6.7V. Do you have any advice or assistance you could offer?

Also does have or use facebook? I finally came from under my rock and got a smart phone that i can get direct messages from!!!
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Re: Series II 3800 swap questions

Postby grumpyvette » August 29th, 2013, 7:04 pm

(1)if you could post a drawing of a simple diagram of what youve done it would help a great deal in making it easier to visualize!

(2)most ignition coils won,t produce a decent spark with less than 12-13 volts at the coil positive connection
wire the car with a dedicated circuit, eliminating the vats(the links posted below on vats and starter should help

(3)whats your fuel pressure at the fuel rail or carb inlet port?
whats your compression?, have you verified TDC and your ignition timing and firing order?


THESE threads and sub links should help
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=299&p=364&hilit=ford+starter#p364

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3453&p=26193&hilit=vats#p26193

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7309&p=24861&hilit=vats#p24861

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=676&p=937&hilit=wiring+a+starter#p937

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=520&p=645&hilit=vats#p645

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=609&p=19893&hilit=vats#p19893

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=3401&p=9078&hilit=vats#p9078

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=520&p=645&hilit=vats#p645

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=458

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=458
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Postby 280zxSheik » September 2nd, 2013, 10:25 pm

1. I have attached the requested diagram. FYI I made it in school when my professor asked me to do something completely unrelated in the front of the class!! The dotted line is the part i have in question? Do you see a smarter simpler wat to do this?

2. I understand the vats very well, I been messing w/them since my 88 trans am gta ws6. My turbo regal also had a form of Vats(primitive). My problem is i can't find a good source of schematics. Where do you go? Anywhere free/near free that you know is reliable? I can find nothing for an 1999 oldsmobile intrigue w/a 3.8.

3. No I will check these things, 1st i will check the 2nd f/p relay, that i missed before, incase the kid shorted it and ruined it.
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Re: Series II 3800 swap questions

Postby 280zxSheik » September 4th, 2013, 1:59 pm

Any updates?
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Re: Series II 3800 swap questions

Postby grumpyvette » September 4th, 2013, 2:52 pm

this video should help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPe6QzrNM2Q

THIS IS ABOUT THE LEAST COMPLICATED ROUTE
Image


MORE INFO
Image

Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Series II 3800 swap questions

Postby 280zxSheik » September 5th, 2013, 11:50 am

Ok I will use your diagrams to hook up the battery. The think is i have my battery relocated to the trunk and i am also trying to ingrate the stock datsun wiring so i can utilize the stock switch and set up. Can i upload a pdf version of the datsun 280zx FSM for your review?
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79 datsun 280zx

Postby 280zxSheik » September 8th, 2013, 1:49 pm

okay on the 79 datsun 280zx
I need some help with an electrical problem. I am working on a 79 datsun 280 and the fuel pump is not turning on. the wiring between the fuel pump and relay 1 (green and black wires) is good, the green with white stripe between relay 1 and 2 is good, and the black with red strip coming from the ignition is good. the fuel pump sees 2 volts when in ACC, 0 volts in ON, and 9 volts (basically 12 but the starter is lowering it) under crank. are there any other wires involved that could be severed or any components not working. possibly a bad ground or bad relay?
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Stock tensioner?

Postby 280zxSheik » October 7th, 2013, 6:13 pm

Okay an issue with eh series II 3800. I have the motor bolted up in my 83 280zx, The problem is the we need to delete the A/c as it is in the direct path of where the turbo manifold needs to be made. Is there a way i can just run the belt and ignore the a/c with the stock tensioner?
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Re: Stock tensioner?

Postby grumpyvette » October 7th, 2013, 6:18 pm

280zxSheik wrote:Okay an issue with eh series II 3800. I have the motor bolted up in my 83 280zx, The problem is the we need to delete the A/c as it is in the direct path of where the turbo manifold needs to be made. Is there a way i can just run the belt and ignore the a/c with the stock tensioner?


a couple clear detailed pictures taken from several angles would be very helpful here!
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Series II 3800 swap questions

Postby 280zxSheik » October 8th, 2013, 12:59 am

Here is the belt diagram of the the series II 3800 in the fbody cars. I have the assembly on the right, since as far as i know/seen no fbody has come with the factory no a/c option. What I need is the set up on the left. What I'm asking is if I can bypass the a/c and will the stock tensioner be compatable with the lack of the a/c pulley/unit?
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Re: Series II 3800 swap questions

Postby grumpyvette » October 8th, 2013, 7:43 am

the only way I see you doing that is to replace the AC with a custom bracket and coaster pulley assembly

similar to what the c4 corvette guys use to replace the smog air pump, to allow use of the stock serpentine belt yet reduce the drag on the engine , it certainly would not be difficult to fabricate after careful measurements are taken, especially if you have a drill press and welder
Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Series II 3800 swap questions

Postby 280zxSheik » January 9th, 2014, 8:12 pm

Unfortunately the turbo manifold wants to go exactly where the a/c bracket wants to be. But while im making headers i decided to focus on the electrical issues.
1st the pcm needs to be edited to remove the VATS/ vech anti theft system. Does anyone edit GM computers?
2nd I need help wiring up the ignition & fuel system. I'm gettin my 12volts at the starter & altenator but i need to figure out how to wire the fuel pump and starter to be activated by the key. Anyone have any direction i can move in to address this portion of my swap?
3rd I need to hook up my autometer boost, temp and oil press gauges and I would like to use the stock tach & speedo for now.
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Re: Series II 3800 swap questions

Postby grumpyvette » January 10th, 2014, 10:28 am

280zxSheik wrote:Unfortunately the turbo manifold wants to go exactly where the a/c bracket wants to be. But while im making headers i decided to focus on the electrical issues.
1st the pcm needs to be edited to remove the VATS/ vech anti theft system. Does anyone edit GM computers?


http://www.bakerelectronix.com/products_vats/

http://www.joestradingpost.com/vats/

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3453&p=9166&hilit=vats#p9166

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=63&p=3403&hilit=vats#p3403

2nd I need help wiring up the ignition & fuel system. I'm gettin my 12volts at the starter & altenator but i need to figure out how to wire the fuel pump and starter to be activated by the key. Anyone have any direction i can move in to address this portion of my swap?
Image

3rd I need to hook up my auto-meter boost, temp and oil press gauges and I would like to use the stock tach & speedo for now.


each gauge,or tach should come with instal instructions and a sensor matched to the gauge.

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4917&p=13573&hilit=tach+wiring#p13573

speedometers will have either a direct drive mechanical cable or an electrical sensor sending unit

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=3164&p=8441&hilit=speedometer#p8441
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Series II 3800 swap questions

Postby 280zxSheik » January 13th, 2014, 7:09 pm

I'm gonna go and get the PCM edited by intense performance, Ill get the vats removed while I get the other editing done. Thank you for the link on the vats, it will certainly be useful.

Ok Ill try and figure out the ignition switch 1st. I'm using the stock ignition switch and body harness. All the fuel pump and wiring is still at the stock set up. The ignition switch should also be wired to the starter, through the fuse panel with the stock wiring.

Where im lost at with your diagram is the term (cell) I'm assuming the cell is a fuel pump? If so how would I wire the stock Datsun cell wiring to the stock Series II 3800 coilpack/ignition module?

I'll call summit or autometer to try and find the stock hardware for my gauges.
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