some pontiac related links



some pontiac related links

Postby grumpyvette » December 2nd, 2010, 6:02 pm

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby Randy_W » December 2nd, 2010, 8:27 pm

8-) Thanks!
Randy
Don't mess with old men, we didn't get that way by being stupid!
Randy_W

User avatar
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 756
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 8:57 pm

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby grumpyvette » September 14th, 2011, 2:22 pm

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
http://www.projectpontiac.com/ppsite15/ ... calculator
cams
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/ ... 0390327778

the Pontiac engines got potential if you think it thru, the long rods and tall deck height make it respond well to nitrous or a turbo.

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4125&p=10957#p10957

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/67 ... tiac_350s/

Pontiac 350s just don't get no respect. Eclipsed by the larger 389, 400, 421, 428, and 455 engines, the 350 is the Rodney Dangerfield of Pontiac motors. The only thing going for a Pontiac 350, so the pundits say, is that a 400 or 455 bolts right in its place - but that's OK, because that Pontiac 350 is sure to find a good home in a boat...as the anchor. Badda bing, badda boom.

But it's been over 20 years since GM produced traditional Pontiac V-8s, and the supply of desirable big-inch blocks is drying up. Yet the orphan 350--produced from 1968-1979--is still fairly common, precisely because no one wants them. Pontiac's 350 shares the same external dimensions with its larger brothers.

Heads--including Edelbrock's popular aluminum castings--interchange. It uses the same 6.625-inch center-to-center Pontiac rods as the big motors, yielding a great 1.77:1 rod/stroke ratio, even with its relatively long 3.75-inch stroke. The major drawback is the small 3.875-inch standard bore, which restricts ultimate breathing potential and creates valve-to-bore interference with big valves and high-lift cams.

All right, beggars can't be choosers. For many die-hard Pontiac lovers, the 350 is all they can find and afford. Could a modern cam, pistons, rings, cylinder heads, and nitrous oxide technology get this Indian off the reservation? "Yes!" responds Bruce Fulper, the owner of Rock & Roll Engineering (RRE)--a leading Pontiac high-performance parts supplier and race-engine building facility. Other than the relatively rare '68-'69 350 H.O., Pontiac never saw fit to develop the 350's performance potential, yet Fulper has assembled an awesome package that makes nearly 540 hp on the dyno and runs high 11s in the quarter--without nitrous. Adding just a small amount of squeeze boosted the output to 670 hp and mid-10s. Here's what goes into making a brave little Indian (or is that a little Indian brave?).

Bottom End

Stock Pontiac iron cranks can handle anything you throw at them if properly prepped. The 326, 350, 389, and 400 Pontiacs all share the same 3.75-inch stroke, and a crank from one of these other engines works in a 350 if rebalanced. When swapping cranks, be aware that there are three different crank flywheel-mounting flange pilot diameters - '63-and-earlier, '64-'76, and '77-'79--which must mate with a matching flywheel or flexplate. The crank used on this engine is 0.020-inch undersize on both mains and rods, though beefy Pontiac cranks can go 0.030- and 0.040-under on the mains and rods, respectively, without problems. This engine uses Dana-Perfect Circle rod (CP-758P-20) and -groove main bearings (MS-483G-20), which are available in common oversizes.

All 350s can safely be bored 0.060-over. The most desirable blocks to look for were made from 1968 through early 1970. They may not have the correct mounting bosses needed for some later applications, but their larger cylinder-bore valve chamfers require less notching for valve clearance with big cams. Check for valve-to-bore contact by placing the valves, retained by clothespins, in the heads. Coat the potential bore-to-valve interference areas with machinist's dye, place the head (with no gasket) on a bare block, and carefully drop the valves to establish the contact point.

Said to enhance sealing by 6 percent, this engine uses the latest Total Seal gapless top rings, conventional cast-iron second rings, and a thin but standard-tension oil ring assembly. Not subject to gap erosion, the gapless design can maintain optimum sealing properties longer than traditional rings. The rings seal 0.060-over CP lightweight flattop pistons that, together with the heads' 72cc chambers, zero piston deck height, and Fel-Pro 1016 head gasket, bring the compression ratio in at a pump gas-friendly 9.5:1. Fulper ordered the custom slugs with the top ring lands positioned 0.300-inch below the piston deck to both enhance durability with nitrous oxide and to provide additional clearance for the valve notches required by the 350's small bore-size.

High-volume oil pumps aren't required. The 60-psi Ram Air IV pump driven by a heavy-duty pump driveshaft is sufficient if you control bearing and rod side clearances. Excessive volume and pressure just increase parasitic losses and make the rings work harder. A 6-quart (with filter) replacement oil pan is filled with conventional SAE 30 oil for initial run-in, 0W-0 Royal Purple synthetic oil at the track, and 20W-40 on the street.
Image

use a edelbrock intake #2957, in every case it would add additional peak power, as it flows significantly better than the intakes used in the links

read this link
http://www.pontiacpower.com/latestdyno.htm

http://www.pontiacpower.com/LatestDyno2.htm

http://www.pontiacpower.com/LAtest%20Dyno3.htm

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/67 ... tiac_350s/

http://www.pontiacpower.com/

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2358&p=6226&hilit=pontiac+dyno+edelbrock#p6226

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4125&p=10957#p10957
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby grumpyvette » February 26th, 2012, 3:44 pm

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby grumpyvette » May 10th, 2014, 12:06 pm

Image
edelbrocks # 2957 intake is a huge improvement over most available Pontiac 4 barrel carburetor intake designs
Image
theres two common crank main journal diameters, suitable for long stroke performance cranks used in performance builds (3.00 and 3.25") and several stroker cranks suppliers available, personally I prefer SCAT forged cranks, obviously youll need the correct block to start with and a matching crank and theres stronger aftermarket block castings available also
Id suggest the edelbrock heads with the larger than stock 215cc ports#60599

keep in mind a 215cc port that flows that 286 CFM FLOW rate those pontiac heads are flow rated at,is about what you normally select for a hot performance 400 sbc engine so on a 455 plus cubic inch displacement Pontiac V8 thats a restrictive cylinder head, but still an improvement over most of the factory castings
71/69 143/120 208/151 253/173 272/191 286/199
they need some port and bowl clean up but can be made to flow well with that 2957 intake and a Holley 750-800 cfm vacuum secondary 4 barrel carb and decent long tube headers.
using a stroker crank,in a pontiac performance engine build helps , boost displacement and compression, that helps boost the torque curve, the small for displacement 215cc ports mandate a longer duration and a tight LSA to allow the small ports to breath during over lap, but you need a 11:1 compression and a cam with a 245-250 duration and a 108 LSA and a 3.45:1-3.73 rear gear, to take advantage of the restricted port flow rates , and power range,that peak power is generally in the 3500rpm-6000rpm power band, you won,t be exceeding about 6000rpm,with the large displacement and restrictive ports , but you will be making very impressive torque with the correctly matched components
building a pontiac with those edelbrock heads THAT FLOW BETTER than most STOCK pontiac heads is still similar to building a big block chevy with peanut port heads, you build for max mid rpm torque because theres zero hope of high rpm peak power numbers due to restrictive head flow.

RELATED peanut port bbc INFO
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=2900&p=36476&hilit=peanut+port#p36476

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4067&p=10821#p10821

http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/products/cra ... ranks.html

SCA-4-455P-4500-6700-220

SCAT 4.500" Stroke, 3.25"(455) Main Forged Crankshaft-2.200" (BBC)Rod Journal

$799.95

stick a 4.5" stroke crank in a 1970-76 455 block and you get near 490 plus cubic inches, and you use easy to find aftermarket big block chevy long connecting rods

a lot of guys that are familiar with building Chevy don,t understand that a good many of the things that work well with a Chevy or with a ford won,t work well with a Pontiac , and things that work very effectively with a well configured Pontiac won,t work nearly as well with the other brands simply because the Pontiac engines longer rods, taller deck height and restricted intake ports require a different cam timing approach too maximize the intake runner port flow and cylinder fill efficiency, and the cam overlap timing and valve lift becomes far more critical at a lower rpm level.
keep in mind most Pontiac engines builds with most available cylinder heads, are not going to breath well over about 5800-6000rpm, but that does in no way mean you can,t produce significant and impressive power that can easily put your car in the 12-11 second range
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby 87vette81big » May 10th, 2014, 12:22 pm

Its a Struggle Grumpy My Love For Pontiacs & Corvettes.
Just to let you know.
Tiger Heads my Pick for 700-2,000 HP.
Maybe someday I will own a set of them.
87vette81big

User avatar
 
Posts: 3278
Joined: February 28th, 2012, 12:34 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby 87vette81big » May 10th, 2014, 4:40 pm

You find the Koolest Links Grumpy .
Last link shows you how to make your own Slide a Link traction bars.
I have the Competition Engineering Slide A Links on my 70 TA.
Would have tried making my own back in 2005 if article was known of.
87vette81big

User avatar
 
Posts: 3278
Joined: February 28th, 2012, 12:34 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby chromebumpers » May 10th, 2014, 8:01 pm

87vette81big wrote:Its a Struggle Grumpy My Love For Pontiacs & Corvettes.


Brian, How can you of all people speak of Corvettes and Pontiacs in the same sentence? :lol: Pontiacs are much more interesting and diverse than Corvettes. Just look at GTO's, 6 different models between 64 and 71, Corvette just 2. Now factor in the many configurations you can get in Firebirds. After 1962, Corvettes hung on too long between style changes. C3 @ 15 yrs. and C4 @ 13 yrs. was too long. Conversely, The very popular 1st gen Camaros just 2 styles in 3 years and stopped? I guess I'm just over and bored with Corvettes between the C3 generation and the end of the C4 line. Maybe like many, I'll fall back in love with Corvettes when I'm in my late 60s and beyond, if I'm still kicking. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Brian, Please tell me more about the Tiger Heads. are they for specific Pontiac engines, what other supporting hardware complements those heads?
Rich
chromebumpers

User avatar
 
Posts: 683
Joined: September 23rd, 2012, 5:39 pm
Location: Upper Bucks County, PA

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby grumpyvette » May 10th, 2014, 8:07 pm

chromebumpers wrote:
87vette81big wrote:Its a Struggle Grumpy My Love For Pontiacs & Corvettes.


Brian, How can you of all people speak of Corvettes and Pontiacs in the same sentence? :lol: Pontiacs are much more interesting and diverse than Corvettes. Just look at GTO's, 6 different models between 64 and 71, Corvette just 2. Now factor in the many configurations you can get in Firebirds. After 1962, Corvettes hung on too long between style changes. C3 @ 15 yrs. and C4 @ 13 yrs. was too long. Conversely, The very popular 1st gen Camaros just 2 styles in 3 years and stopped? I guess I'm just over and bored with Corvettes between the C3 generation and the end of the C4 line. Maybe like many, I'll fall back in love with Corvettes when I'm in my late 60s and beyond, if I'm still kicking. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Brian, Please tell me more about the Tiger Heads. are they for specific Pontiac engines, what other supporting hardware complements those heads?


try looking at the 5th and 6th sub-link in the first post in the thread, it should help a bit
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby chromebumpers » May 10th, 2014, 8:09 pm

grumpyvette wrote:

yeah I know theres a strong tendency to ignore linked info, thats a huge mistake!



Grumpy, I actually do read all the links, I just need a system of organizing all the links so I can find them later. searches don't seem to work well for me, I don't know where I'm going wrong.
Rich
chromebumpers

User avatar
 
Posts: 683
Joined: September 23rd, 2012, 5:39 pm
Location: Upper Bucks County, PA

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby chromebumpers » May 10th, 2014, 8:18 pm

grumpyvette wrote:
chromebumpers wrote:
87vette81big wrote:try looking at the 5th and 6th sub-link in the first post in the thread, it should help a bit


I confess I'm not up on the prices of better heads, but these Tiger heads that run on pump gas for $5,800 are not cheap (IMHO). I curious as what's built around these heads and what can be speculated for power and street manors?
Rich
chromebumpers

User avatar
 
Posts: 683
Joined: September 23rd, 2012, 5:39 pm
Location: Upper Bucks County, PA

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby 87vette81big » May 10th, 2014, 9:03 pm

A late friend from Grumpys generation chose me Rich.
Taught me over many years.
He was a Corvette Fan. C3 & C4.
Also Loved Pontiacs, Olds, Hemi, & Fords.
Bill was a Rare Breed.
Made me who I am today.
A mentor & Best Friend.
A bit of a crazy man too.
So am I.
As you know.
87vette81big

User avatar
 
Posts: 3278
Joined: February 28th, 2012, 12:34 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby 87vette81big » May 10th, 2014, 9:46 pm

The Good Stuff & Best Parts don't come inexpensive Rich.
No hold barred Drag Racing in mind.
Sub 8-second 1/4 mile ET 160+ MPH Trap Speeds.
Race Pontiac Heads can cost over $10K some.
Just like BBC & Hemi Mopar.
87vette81big

User avatar
 
Posts: 3278
Joined: February 28th, 2012, 12:34 am
Location: Central Illinois

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby chromebumpers » May 11th, 2014, 11:07 am

87vette81big wrote:A late friend from Grumpys generation chose me Rich.
Taught me over many years.
He was a Corvette Fan. C3 & C4.
Also Loved Pontiacs, Olds, Hemi, & Fords.
Bill was a Rare Breed.
Made me who I am today.
A mentor & Best Friend.
A bit of a crazy man too.
So am I.
As you know.


I was just messin' with you. I wish I could put together a great 65, my mind says 'keep thinking - look for things" but body says "roll over and go back to sleep!"
Rich
chromebumpers

User avatar
 
Posts: 683
Joined: September 23rd, 2012, 5:39 pm
Location: Upper Bucks County, PA

Re: some pontiac related links

Postby 87vette81big » May 11th, 2014, 11:58 am

I will be around in person in Naperville & Joliet this Summer.
Look out for You.
Mecums this Fall. Be a good time to buy that 1965 GTO Rich.
87vette81big

User avatar
 
Posts: 3278
Joined: February 28th, 2012, 12:34 am
Location: Central Illinois


Return to Engine: Repairs , Modifications ,trouble shooting and tunning

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

cron