damn I miss the older muscle cars



damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby grumpyvette » December 5th, 2010, 11:25 am

I was just helping a guy tune up his 1970 lemans, that looked a lot like this picture (his is light green)

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and after a few minutes it was obvious that it was a darn PLEASURE to have that much room in an engine compartment just to access most of the engine, so much so, that I started to wonder WHY I even bother working on with most of the post 1970-75 cars with all the smog and computer crap and tight engine compartments, O worked on a 1964 GTO awhile back, and that was even MORE open and fun to work on, If I get a chance to find a 1965 GTO,lemans or similar 1964-1972 G.M intermediate car with a good BODY and interior condition at a decent price Im sure thinking about hard jumping on it faster than a crack addict on a stack of $20 in a vacant lot!
ESPECIALLY, A 1965-67 PONTIAC, or BUICK two door mid size car, the problem is that like most guys Im on a strict budget that limits my projects.
maybe Im a bit nostalgic but I think the 1965 Pontiac mid size was a very nice looking car, I wish Id never sold mine.
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=898&hilit=pontiac+lemans

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RELATED THREADS AND SUB LINKS
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=451&p=555&hilit=pontiac+fuel+pump#p555

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=7006&p=23123#p23123
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby Randy_W » December 5th, 2010, 11:51 am

Have you ever put spark plugs in a '68-'70 B-body Mopar with a 440? I had a '68 GTX, you needed one under the car and one on top! :D

But I know what you mean, Grump. I miss them, too.
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby grumpyvette » January 31st, 2011, 11:24 am

I had a guy I know stop by to B.S. a bit about his car and a tuning issue he was having, about a week ago,it seems he had good power in first gear, but once he hit second the car started missing under hard acceleration, it turned out that the electric fuel pump he had installed was putting out just 2-3 psi most of the time, so that under hard acceleration he was starving for fuel as the carb would run low.
its always amazed me how, most guys assume something majors wrong and start talking about major costs and surgery on their cars, and ignore the logical step by step process to isolate the cause,of any problems.
Especially,when a bit of experience and a few tests will tend to isolate a problem so you can locate and fix it.
I asked him if the fuel pressure was low or if his gas tank was full,and he stated it can,t be the electric fuel pump, the pumps brand new, I installed it when I found the old mechanical pump leaked, and the problem didn,t start when I swapped fuel pumps, it started at least a week later...

well the result was I put the car up on a lift and tested the fuel pump flow and pressure and advised him he needed a larger fuel line,a better fuel pump, a fuel pressure regulator, a decent fuel filter and a return line installed and it would help to install a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel line.
he hesitated due to the cost, as all the parts ran about $300, too do the job correctly, but I eventually convinced him,
he purchased most of the stuff at either, summit, NAPA or a local hydraulic supply and installed it yesterday, at his home,
and then took the car out for a drive.He called me to say the car runs so much better he can,t believe the difference.

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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-1713/
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAA-4309/

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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1507/
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1710/
Image
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-800115/
Image

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4067&p=10823&hilit=pontiac#p10823

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=211&p=6908&hilit=+filter+fuel#p6908

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=635

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=451&p=1601#p1601

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4381
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby grumpyvette » January 31st, 2011, 4:32 pm

I was talking to FRANK this morning and he stated that his chevelle had suddenly developed a problem where the oil pressure was fine at idle but the gauge showed almost zero if he hit the brakes or revved the engine.
he was also getting noticeably less oil at the rockers and the engine was ticking,
I told him it sounded like the oil-pump pick-up had come loose, and it might be a good idea to pull the oil pan and inspect things before he tried driving the car any further or I suggested he buy one of these tools

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1514


he called back a few hours later to thank me, because I was correct, the pick-up had self destructed,the tube was still in the pump but the weld on the screen had busted allowing the round screen pick-up area to fall off, luckily he had done minimal bearing damage catching it early


yes he has a stock pick-up like this Image
which I suggested he replace with a more substantial design like this

Image

related threads

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2376

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2005/us020516.htm
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby grumpyvette » May 16th, 2011, 10:46 am

Jim came over today with his 1966 impalla, hes been working on, its had a muncie 4 speed and a mild 454 installed and while its certainly not what you might call "FAST" its certainly a high 13 second car and looking under the hood makes me want to build similar cars, you can not only see and reach everything its not even a challenge to replace ANY of the spark-plugs....darn I really miss those cars!
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby Indycars » May 16th, 2011, 4:54 pm

grumpyvette wrote:Jim came over today with his 1966 impalla, hes been working on, its had a muncie 4 speed and a mild 454 installed and while its certainly not what you might call "FAST" its certainly a high 13 second car and looking under the hood makes me want to build similar cars, you can not only see and reach everything its not even a challenge to replace ANY of the spark-plugs....darn I really miss those cars!


The unwillingness to put up with those types of hassles is a sign of OLD AGE. ;)

But I'm right there with you !!! 8-)
Rick
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- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby Randy_W » May 16th, 2011, 7:00 pm

My '67 Impala Ss with that LT1 was so easy to work on, the LT1 in the '75 Formula, not so much! I like what I call "fat boy cars"! :lol:
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby grumpyvette » June 22nd, 2011, 10:04 am

I followed a BLOOD RED, 1970 HEMI CHARGER, similar to this one
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into a local gas station as we both needed fuel, damn it sounded nice and brought back memories of the days when real cars roamed the streets!
I talked with the owner briefly, he drives the car about 1200 miles a year, he bought it in the 1980s dirt cheap, and just was taking it out for a rare road trip, thats understandable, but a shame
I look at what passes as a fast muscle car on to days streets and while theres a few cars like the Z06 corvettes and vipers that might be FASTER the vast majority of todays cars LACK THE CHARACTER AND APPEAL of the older true muscle cars like the older road runners, big block chevelles and G.T.O.s , or even THE AMX and KR500 mustangs when I was younger

http://musclecars.howstuffworks.com/cla ... t-hemi.htm
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby Randy_W » June 22nd, 2011, 10:13 am

I always use the term "character" when talking about the sixties/seventies cars. Today's cars are better cars in almost every way but empirically.
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby DeLong » June 22nd, 2011, 12:04 pm

The lack of character issue applies to a lot of people today. Most of em are democrats. :evil:

I have my buddies 70 chevelle SS in my garage along with the 2 stangs and boy does that thing draw in the tire kickers. I usually leave the door shut so I can have some peace!
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby grumpyvette » January 5th, 2012, 4:54 pm

I was asked what I thought might be a really nice muscle car project?
Ive always felt a 1965 GTO with a dana 60 rear differential, 20" rims four wheel disc brakes,open up the wheel wells just a bit for clearance and lower the car just slightly,add a 3.54:1 rear gear, the over drive trans, full manual 4l80e with a 3200stall converter and a full roller valve train,11:1 compression ratio, aluminum 572 big block with multi port fuel injection , a huge aluminum radiator and oil and transmission cooler,would be great, room for 4-5 people, a big trunk, lots of engine compartment space to work, and it looks classic, and 8 stack thru the hoods impressive, aluminum hood, trunk lid front fenders bumper and a custom chrome molly tube frame, get the weight down around 3100lbs , etc. yes I could have gone turbo and had a faster combo, but it would not be what I really want and a car that ran mid 10 second 1/4 mile times is fine
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the only thing preventing me from owning its is a severely depleted checking account, and current finances
I owned something vaguely similar but not as exotic or costly, at one time and have always deeply regretted selling it!
related thread
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=898&p=3239&hilit=first+lemans#p3239

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=4318&p=39859&hilit=+out+state+project#p39859
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby Randy_W » January 6th, 2012, 7:59 am

Let's keep it all Pontiac if we're dreaming!
A nice Ram Air V headed 428 with 525 h.p. stock.
Image
Or a 625 h.p. @ 7000 RPM, OHC 421...
Image
Or just kick ass altogether with a nice DOHC 436 inch Poncho with 720 H.P.! :mrgreen:
Image
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby grumpyvette » January 6th, 2012, 8:19 am

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby Randy_W » January 6th, 2012, 2:09 pm

There were also the 303 c.i. OHC Brabham/Pontiac that produced about 400 h.p. and the 303 with the Ram Air V tunnel port heads like the top picture that produce in excess of 475 h.p. @8200 RPM. I'll post pics when I'm on my desk top.
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby grumpyvette » November 12th, 2012, 10:07 am

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detai ... 0510-90001
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darn I miss engines and engine compartments that actually allowed mechanics easy access
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: damn I miss the older muscle cars

Postby grumpyvette » January 29th, 2013, 11:48 am

Image
I found this picture on the internet but its a very close clone to the picture of the engine in Franks 1970 GTO, and I thought Id point out a problem he was having and the cure.
Im constantly amazed at the number of guys who don,t tackle a problem, in a step-by-step logical progression of testing and verifying each components function.
If youve looked over similar problems many times you get a feel for the more likely areas that might be the problem and you learn from previous cars what to look for!
OK first let me tell you , the symptoms and conditions, Frank had not driven the car for about 8 months, before yesterday, he keeps the battery charged with a trickle charger, and yesterday he brought home 10 gallons of fresh fuel, poured it in the fuel tank and decided to go for a drive.
Frank was rather upset to find his week end toy was running like crap and especially so, because when he parked it, it ran great!
now he had become rather frustrated because he had assumed the spark plugs were fouled or the timing advance was not functioning and a dozen other potential reason, but he had not stopped to test or verify the cause!
frank was just getting a bit crazy skipping randomly from guessing rather than testing, While I may or may not do things the way you might approach a similar problem, But I enjoy finding and fixing these kinds of problems with cars.
Ive found many of the younger guys seem to rely almost entirely on diagnostic scanners and trouble code readers, those may be great on most newer cars but those won,t do you much good on the 1950-19780s cars.
the car he dragged out of his garage after several months of storage, had no where near the power it had when he parked it, in fact it ran so poorly he called me up and asked if he could stop over , for some hints as to the cause.
The first thing I noticed was he had installed a new plastic fram fuel line filter (he said he installed it that morning because he wanted to SEE if he was actually getting fuel as the car acted like it was starving for fuel.

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I listened to him tell me it was a fuel related problem, Which I thought is very unlikely as Id previously helped him install a HOLLEY electric fuel pump and a BE_COOL fuel filter and water separator back near the fuel tank, mounted on the frame.I felt it was a mechanical or tuning issue related to the carbs function like linkage binding or a clogged jet or passage in the carbs, or crud in the fuel or something like a float level issue, but I was not going to assume a darn thing, I would logically test and isolate the cause. I checked the main rear filter and found it had a bit of what appeared to be rusty water trapped but not more than a couple table spoons which the rear filter had trapped as it was designed to do before it reached the fuel pump.
the fuel pressure regulator was mounted on the fire wall and the fuel pressure gauge showed he was getting a consistent 6 psi, the fram clear filter he had temporarily installed with a short section of fuel line and a few hose clamps shower he was getting clear fuel, so I took a very brief test drive and it became very apparent the cause seemed to be carburetor related , (which it turned out to be) a few tests showed it was related to the metering rods , two of which were not moving as the little rods and jets and springs controlling the movement were temporarily jammed.
On edelbrock carbs these metering rods slide down thru the jets and as air flow rates increase the rods move upwards exposing more jet area to fuel flow acting a bit like the power valve in a Holley carb, as they significantly richen the fuel/air ratio
(SEE COMPONENTS CIRCLED IN LIGHT GREEN IN DIAGRAM)
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(THE METERING RODS ARE UNDER THE COVER PLATES MARKED ( A & B)
Dis-assembly some spray carburetor cleaner and a bit of physical cleaning with 600 grit sand paper removed the corrosion, trapped moisture in the carburetors had caused (most likely the result of crappy fuel with ETHANOL added while the car sat for MONTHs in storage


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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/maa-9 ... dia/images
maa-9-37880_w
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THESE filters are not designed for fuel flow rates much above what will support about 450 hp as they are restrictive and limit flow but they do work rather well at trapping crud before it reaches the fuel pump.


yeah Ive got a waiting list of guys wanting me to help them with various projects, engine builds and to help them with repair issues , but damn few want to pay much for the service or knowledge, or even help with repairs if the work done is done for free.
I rarely charge more than it costs for supplies used and lunch for simple repairs and my friends realize its basically free repairs even at that limited cost,
Ive got a few dozen repeat customers that realize the value of experience, and don,t mind paying a bit for it, but everyone seems to be looking for a screaming bargain or wants to pay on credit

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you might want to read thru these threads also


http://www.laroke.com/larryk4674/2009/A ... _Guide.pdf

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1820&p=4706&hilit=1406+edelbrock#p4706

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=109

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=451&p=555&hilit=fuel+filter#p555

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=5893&p=27616&hilit=pontiac+cover+pump#p27616

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=211

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=7770&p=26552&hilit=dual+quads#p26552

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=444&p=20301&hilit=dual+quads#p20301

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=808&p=1180&hilit=fuel+filter#p1180

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=515&p=1624&hilit=fuel+filter#p1624
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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