getting a camaro or firebird to bite



getting a camaro or firebird to bite

Postby grumpyvette » November 28th, 2010, 10:26 am

one of my freinds recently purchased a 1967 Pontiac fire-bird as a project car,


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it looks amazingly similar to this picture I found on the internet

he had a 428 Pontiac engine , and a muncie 4 speed, sitting on his shop floor for several years looking for the right deal on a car to come along, (that I had done a basic rebuild job on several years ago ),and he eventually found the car at a good price,that had a decent body and interior and a blown up engine for sale, the car had 3.90:1 rear gears in a ford 9" rear differential, added by the previous owner,which were not ideal on a street Pontiac,but the price was good so he jumped on the deal,
the engine is where I did a minor port and bowl clean-up and cam swap (crane 105082) which has a 228/228 duration and a 480/480 lift on a 110 lsa, the engines about a 10:1 cpr , the result was that he could destroy tires easily but traction was a huge problem

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-35276/?rtype=10


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http://www.wallaceracing.com/ultimateflow.htm

In 1967 the 421 was bored to 4 1⁄8 in (104.8 mm), increasing its displacement to 427.6 cu in (7,007 cc). The 428 had the same 4.00" stroke as the 421, and was produced from 1967 to 1969. This engine produced 370 hp (280 kW), or 390 hp (290 kW) in High Output (H.O.) form. The crankshaft in the 428 also had a N cast on them as opposed to the 421's Armasteel. In 1969, Pontiac also used a revised crankshaft out of a Pearlitic malleable iron, although it still used the" N" casting letter. This new material had stronger alloys in the iron. All 428 engines were factory install in large cars only. However, there were a few dealers that would install a 428 in a customers GTO or Firebird for higher power levels.

http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.p ... il&p=23874

and added a much better intake manifold

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1154&p=7353&hilit=pontiac+intake+test#p7353

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-2957/

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THIS INTAKE , Edelbrock Victor Intake Manifolds 2957 with the larger than stock 215cc port #60599 EDELBROCK ALUMINUM HEADS and with a 750 cfm holley,HAS PROVEN TO WORK REALLY WELL ON MANY PONTIAC PERFORMANCE COMBOS WHERE IT FITS UNDER HOOD CLEARANCE
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7156/?rtype=10
BTW IF YOU RETAIN THE STOCK CAM AND Q-JET CARB, or have an automatic transmission and 2.87:1-3.36:1 THIS INTAKE WORKS BETTER
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this intake and carb when matched to a decent mid range cam,in the 225-240 duration range,usually produces a very noticeable improvement in power levels in most 389-455 Pontiacs engines once the heads are cleaned up and headers are added to use the increased flow they provide
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-0-4778C/


I explained that he had two options the LAKEWOOD STYLE traction bars or the CAL TRAC TYPE bars
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cal-track bars normally cost about $350, but you can, measure and fabricate decent cal trac bars if you have a welder and some basic machine shop skills, and understand the basic concepts involved

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=273&hilit=caltrac

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=216&p=7850&hilit=+cal+trac#p7850

http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction.html
my friend installed a used set of slapper bars he found on Craig's list for $50 , the results were a marked improvement but he still has traction issues if he forgets and just floors the throttle without thinking, hes learned that a slightly more gradual application of the gas petal allows the car to maintain traction now that the slapper bars are installed

IF I was designing it ID be using 1" or larger DIAM ,1/8" wall thickness MINIMUM chrome moly tubing and a MATCHED grade 8 OR BETTER, HEIM JOINTS and GUSSET the intersecting joints, and use a TIG WELDER

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cf ... &top_cat=0

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http://hirschmannusa.thomasnet.com/item ... read/smc20?

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http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction.html

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=1755&p=4427&hilit=heim#p4427


TO PREVENT SILLY STUFF LIKE THIS...WATCH THE VIDEO
http://rides.webshots.com/video/3026513 ... 9359WVpyxw

READ THIS
http://www.competitionengineering.com/a ... assis2.asp

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The bolt-on "Slapper Bar" is one of the most basic traction devices available. Originally pioneered by Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins in the mid-sixties, it gets its name from the way it works. One end of the Slapper Bar replaces the stock spring pad and is clamped to the rear axle housing. The front end of the bar is suspended just below the spring eye. When the housing begins to rotate during launch, the bar also rotates until it contacts or "slaps" the spring. (Unlike other brands, Competition Engineering Traction Bars make contact directly below the front spring eye, preventing spring damage). When contact occurs, the Slapper Bar becomes a lever trying to push the axle housing down and planting the tires in the process.
http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction.html

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A revolutionary, patented, completely bolt-on traction device, the Slide-A-Link™, designed for both street and strip use is track tested and competition proven to outperform conventional “Slapper” bars. A solid mounted front plate is installed inside the original front spring pocket and clamps to the leaf spring to provide a positive displacement for the torque that is transmitted from the rear axle through the telescoping bar and special durometer shock pad. These forces, along with improved instant center geometry, provide better weight transfer for increased traction. Free travel and pre-load adjustments are made on the vehicle by adjusting the jack screw at the rear of the bar.



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LAKEWOOD STYLE traction bars normally cost between $70-$120 there not quite as effective but they work reasonably well.
http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... _21607.pdf


THERE ARE BOLT IN FORD 9" rear differential housings designed for fire birds and camaros
http://currieenterprises.reachlocal.com ... 2380330902
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: getting a camaro or firebird to bite

Postby Randy_W » November 28th, 2010, 11:36 am

Does his car still have the mono leaf springs that came on all '67's and the un-staggered shocks? If so, going to '68 setup with multi leaf springs/staggered shocks will make a world of difference.
Randy
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Re: getting a camaro or firebird to bite

Postby grumpyvette » November 28th, 2010, 12:16 pm

who ever swapped in the 9" ford rear swapped in multi leaf springs from a similar car, I think they may be custom made, or possibly 68-0r 69 camaro springs but its not original single mono spring leaf springs

BTW HERES SOME RELATED PONTIAC INFO


http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/362/78/

http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/heads.html

http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/headID.html

http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com ... elect.html

http://www.pontiacpower.org/PontiacCams.htm

http://www.teufert.net/pontiac/intake.htm

http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction.html

http://calvertracing.com/cart/index.php ... ucts_id=15

http://www.markwilliams.com/driveshafttech.aspx

caltracks will cost you $260-$350 to buy
you can very easily fabricate a really nice custom set for about $100-$150 LESS if you have a welder tools and fabrication skills

now you can buy far cheaper traction bars but you need to compare prices with what your buying vs what you can fabricate in any design and in almost all cases youll find that saving 30%-70% is easily done IF YOU HAVE THE FABRICATION SKILLS AND TOOLS
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http://www.wallaceracing.com/head1.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiacdude428/HeadID.html

http://www.wallaceracing.com/ultimatehead.htm

http://hotrod.automotive.com/81379/hrdp ... index.html

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/t ... index.html
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/t ... index.html

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/t ... index.html

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/t ... ssion.html

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/t ... index.html

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/t ... sheet.html

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4211&hilit=pontiac

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=6164&p=19180#p19180

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1154&p=17809#p17809


http://www.tinindianperformance.com/KRE ... 20head.htm

http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/products/eng ... cu_in.html

http://www.racev8s.com/6xpontiac_head.html


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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: getting a camaro or firebird to bite

Postby Randy_W » November 28th, 2010, 5:32 pm

8-) Thanks!
Randy
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Re: getting a camaro or firebird to bite

Postby HYPURR DBL NKL » November 30th, 2010, 7:58 pm

I would have him check pinion angle and also get a good set of tires. No matter what he does to the suspension, if he's on a true street radial tire, it isn't going to hook at all. Just my .02.

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Re: getting a camaro or firebird to bite

Postby grumpyvette » April 2nd, 2013, 4:36 pm

I recently had the fire-bird with the 428 Pontiac engine come back by and I took a ride to the local NAPA auto parts store to get the required parts for a tune-up, it was really interesting to see how this car responded to a tune-up, it went from a car that could easily smoke the tires only in first gear and part of second gear before the tune-up to a much more responsive car that easily smoked the tires up to at least 30-35 mph and most of the way thru 2nd ger with a health screech of tire tread on shifting into third gear.
even the guy driving it had forgotten how much better the engine ran when correctly tuned because the power loss had been very gradual, things like a better air cleaner, adjusting the ignition timing ,replacing the spark plugs and ignition wires, replacing the distributor cap , replacing a cracked leaking vacuum hose and setting the float levels and replacing the fuel filter all might have been over looked but each contributed to improving performance.
some of his spark plugs were gaped at over .060 thru wear and indicated a lean idle condition
heres some pictures from the spark plug thread that might prove useful
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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