adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVERS



adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVERS

Postby grumpyvette » August 12th, 2009, 4:49 pm

as many guys find out theres a bunch of valve covers on the market with no provisions to mount a breather, or add oil to the engine,
in many cases theres KNOCK OUTS or places designed to punch out
for a breather or a oil cap, on many there is no provision so what do you do?
obviously you need to inspect and measure carefully because you sure don,t want to locate a breather tube where it interferes with the rockers etc.
a properly functioning PVC valve on one valve cover and a breather on the other side will promote the removal of moisture PROVIDED the engine oil reaches and maintains a MINIMUM oil temp in the oil pan of 215F for at least a few minutes, to boil off that trapped moisture
The PCV valve system vents crankcase gases into the engine air intake where they are burned with the fuel and air mixture. The PCV valve system keeps pollutants from being released into the atmosphere, and also helps to keep the engine oil clean, by ridding the crankcase of moisture and corrosive fumes. The PCV valve system consists of the PCV valve, it's mounting grommet, the nipple in the air intake and the connecting hoses. On some engine applications, the PCV valve system is connected with the evaporative emission system.
positive - crankcase - ventilation = Pcv valve
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AS ALWAYS THERES A GREAT DEAL OF INFO IN THE LINKS


viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6011&p=18597#p18597

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=1288&hilit=pvc+valve

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=4636&p=12451#p12451

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=4912

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6011&p=18597#p18597

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCV_valve

http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/239.cfm

Image

http://www.2carpros.com/how_does_it_work/pcv_valve.htm

http://www.aa1car.com/library/pcv.htm

youll want one of these tools to cut a clean round hole

Includes punches and dies for 1/2", 3/4", 1" and 1-1/4" pipe and conduit, in a blow mold case

http://www.harborfreight.com/knockout-p ... 91201.html
Image
you drill a small hole, put the threaded rod thru, attach the punch bit and receiver cup and slowly tighten the tool, and it cuts out the correct size hole without distorting the valve cover
MOST VALVE COVERS COME WITH AT LEAST ONE HOLE TO ADD OIL OR MOUNT A PVC CONNECTION.
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BUT NOT ALL
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http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Billet- ... 0/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Billet- ... 1/10002/-1
Image

http://www.jegs.com/p/Billet-Specialtie ... 0/10002/-1
Image

http://www.jegs.com/p/Mr-Gasket/Mr-Gask ... 9/10002/-1

http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/94-2R1.pdf

http://www.aa1car.com/library/pcv.htm

Image

since the pvc has almost no real effect on the engines basic function,
(remember the Chevy small block engines had road draft tubes long before they had PVCs)
and the pvc is simply used to significantly reduce emissions and slightly lower the crank case pressure due to high pressure gases seeping past the rings,
the obvious test is to remove and plug one or both hoses connected to the intake or throttle body and see what if anything changes.
(and it most likely will change because your basically now running a self installed vacuum leak)
btw you CAN,T RUN AN OPEN LINE TO THE VALVE COVER WITH A 90 DEGREE OPEN ADAPTER YOU NEED A TRUE PVC, that closes at idle

READ
Positive Crankcase Ventilation is a system that was developed to remove harmful vapors from the engine and to prevent those vapors from being expelled into the atmosphere. The PCV system does this by using manifold vacuum to draw vapors from the crankcase into the intake manifold. Vapor is then carried with the fuel/air mixture into the combustion chambers where it is burned. The flow or circulation within the system is controlled by the PCV Valve. The PCV Valve is effective as both a crankcase ventilation system and as a pollution control device.

PCV systems have been standard equipment on all new cars since the early sixties. Prior to 1963 PCV was only used in California. There are a variety of PCV systems used on various makes and models of cars produced since 1963, but all function essentially the same.

PCV systems can be described as either open or closed. The two systems are quite similar. However, the closed system in use since 1968 is more effective at air pollution control. The systems differ in the manner in which fresh air enters the crankcase and excessive vapor is expelled.

Open PCV Systems

The open system draws fresh air though a vented oil filler cap. This presents no problem as long as the vapor volume is minimal. However, when the crankcase vapor becomes excessive it is forced back through the vented oil filler cap and into the open atmosphere. The open PCV system, though successful at removing contaminated vapors from the crankcase, is not completely effective as a pollution control device.

Closed PCV Systems

The closed PCV system draws fresh air from the air filter housing. The oil filler cap in this system is NOT vented. Consequently, excess vapor will be carried back to the air filter housing and from there into the intake manifold. The closed system prevents vapor, whether normal or excessive, from reaching the open atmosphere. The closed system is very effective as an air pollution control device.

The PCV Valve

The most critical part in the PCV system is the flow control valve, commonly referred to as the PCV valve. The purpose of the PCV valve is to meter the flow of the vapor from the crankcase to the intake manifold. This is necessary in order to provide proper ventilation for the crankcase, while not upsetting the fuel/air mixture for combustion.

Blow-by gases and vapor should be removed at about the same rate they enter the crankcase. Since blow-by is minimal at idle and increases during high speed operation, the PCV valve must control the flow of vapor accordingly. The PCV valve is designed to compensate for the engine ventilation needs at varying engine speeds. It is operated by manifold vacuum which increases or decreases as engine speeds change.

For example, at low or idle engine speeds manifold vacuum is high. This pulls the plunger to the extreme forward position, or manifold end of the valve. Due to the shape of the plunger, vapor flow is reduced to a minimum. The low rate of the flow is adequate for ventilation purposes and will not upset the fuel/air mixture ratio.



At high speeds manifold vacuum is decreased. The plunger is only drawn to a point about midway in the housing. This allows a maximum flow of vapor. Since the engine needs more fuel/air mixture at high speeds, the introduction of more vapor does not affect performance. In the event of a backfire, pressure from the intake manifold forces the plunger to the closed or engine-off position. This prevents the backfire flame from reaching the crankcase and exploding the combustible vapor.



A neglected PCV system will soon fail to function and the result can be expensive as well as troublesome for the car owner. If the crankcase is not adequately ventilated, the motor oil will quickly become contaminated and heavy sludge accumulations will begin to form. Internal parts, not protected by the motor oil, will begin to rust and/or corrode due to the water and acids that will become trapped within the crankcase. If the PCV system is not functioning properly, the flow of crankcase vapor into the intake manifold will not be properly metered. This, in turn, will upset the fuel/air mixture for combustion and cause rough idling or even stalling of the engine. Furthermore, intake and exhaust valves, in addition to spark plugs, may well be burned and rendered useless, prematurely affecting performance and requiring expensive repairs. To assure trouble-free performance of the PCV system and, in turn, the engine and vehicle, routine maintenance of the PCV system is absolutely recommended and required.

A PCV valve should never be cleaned and placed back into service. Cleaning a PCV valve will result in a clean PCV valve; not a new PCV valve. There are contaminants that will remain in the PCV valve that can never be flushed out. Additionally, there is an amount of wear that will be experienced by the spring that cleaning cannot replace. The recommended replacement intervals are a maximum of 12 months or 10,000 miles (16,000 km). Since vehicles and operating conditions vary, the valve may have to be serviced more frequently. If it is suspected that the valve is sticking or if there is evidence of sludge, the valve should be replaced.

All hoses or tubes used in the PCV system should be cleaned and inspected. If any cracks or breaks are noticed in the hose, it should also be replaced. All hose connections should be inspected to assure an air-tight seal.

Proper servicing of the PCV valve system will help reduce overall vehicle emissions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCV_valve

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCV_valve

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/pcv-replace/

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h63.pdf

http://www.aa1car.com/library/pcv.htm

step one

make sure the pcv valve is functioning correctly

Image
BTW we found we could just insert one or two stainless steel scrub pads in the breather tube space, (A and B) as that will absolutely control any air flow turbulence, that tends to drag oil out the breathers and make the engine a oil soak mess.
I know we did that on road race cars, for oil control on crank case breathers, and it drastically improved the flow back rates and controlled the formation of oil foam, allowing the oil to flow back with a noticeable reduction in air trapped in the oil.

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EMISSION COMPONENT LOCATIONS
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http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway- ... ,1887.html

once more a rather simple weekend project with a decent welder, if youve got minimal skill and the calculator below to use to fabricate your own custom version, maybe even get it powder coated

http://www.metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Adding PCV to engine with no holes in valve covers.

Postby Loves302Chevy » December 10th, 2012, 3:29 am

I have a 350 Chevy with Canfield heads and Canfield valve covers
Valve Cover.JPG
that have no holes - and
although I can do a great job of milling the holes, they are too nice to do this to. The attached image is similar to what I have, except the
script is centered and covers even more of the top of the valve cover, so if I did add the holes in the top, they would end up in the script.
The intake manifold is a Weiand Team G 7532
925-7532.jpg
and does not have provisions for the front oil fill
tube. I can, however, mill a hole into the base behind the thermostat crossover which gets me into the lifter valley and I could put a PCV
valve here. What do I need to do so that I don't suck up the oil mist (separator)? How was it done on the old 327 engines?
I would also like to add a breather(s). I guess if I must, I can add holes to the ends of the covers
and add something similar to the following images:
Side mount breather.JPG

Racing engine breather.jpg

how-crankcasebreather.gif

Crossover breathers.jpg

I would like to have BOTH PCV and breathers. Thanks again, Mike.
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby Indycars » August 21st, 2013, 11:43 am


While searching for info on a PCV valve and trying to decide what to buy, I came across this product. It's abit pricey at $129.
http://mewagner.com/?page_id=444

Here is a link to their manuals.
http://mewagner.com/?page_id=459

Link to their video.
http://mewagner.com/?page_id=462



Benefits:
• Fully tuneable to your engine combination
• Adjustable flow rate can be tailored to your engine’s setup
• Adjustable vacuum transition level can be tuned to your engine’s unique vacuum profile
• Properly ventilates crankcase, resulting in cleaner oil and cleaner engine internals
• Reduces emissions
• Reduces moisture and acidic vapors in your engine’s crankcase
• Vacuum gauge tuning method ensures PCV system is set properly for your combination

Features:
• Patent pending Dual Flow design splits airflow into separate idle and cruise circuits
• Idle control screw allows user to adjust valve’s idle flow rate
• Cruise control screw allows user to adjust vacuum level where valve transitions from low flow idle mode to increased flow cruise mode
• Fixed orifice tuning mode can accommodate the most radical engine combinations
• CNC machined from USA made 6061-T6 billet aluminum
• PCV hose connection barbed tube is integral to main body, barbed tube and main body are machined from one piece of billet aluminum
• One part number fits most domestic V6 and V8 applications (see Technical Data)
• Adaptor available for inline applications
• Fully serviceable and rebuildable design, rebuild kits available
• Assembled using the best components available. See technical data for more details.
• Each valve hand inspected, assembled and 100% flow tested

Dual Flow Adjustable PCV Valve Quarter Section

Design:
M/E Wagner completely wiped the slate clean and evaluated what performance enthusiasts need in a PCV system to best tune their engine combinations. Although the Dual Flow PCV Valve is similar in size to other billet dress up PCV valves, the internal configuration is unlike any other valve available.

Cut-in-half.jpg


A stock style PCV valve has one airflow circuit, which varies airflow from a reduced amount at idle to an increased amount of flow under cruising conditions. These flow rates, as well as the vacuum level at which the valve transitions from idle to cruise mode, are not adjustable by the end user. Furthermore, it is difficult to obtain proper flow data to determine which stock style valve (if any) is correct for a modified application.

Patent pending Dual Flow technology splits airflow into independent idle and cruise circuits, giving you the ultimate in control over your tuneup. Each circuit is independently tunable to allow for full customization to your specific application. Flow rate as well as transition vacuum level can be adjusted with the turn of a screw.

df17_display_3.jpg


Tuning with Dual Flow Technology:
Dual Flow PCV Technology gives you full control over your tuneup. The Dual Flow PCV Valve has independent idle and cruise circuits, each of which are adjustable.

The idle circuit’s flow rate can be tailored to your specific engine combination. The Dual Flow PCV instruction guide includes several starting points for idle flow rates, based on testing countless PCV valves from various manufacturers.

A properly functioning PCV Valve will increase its flow rate under cruising conditions to accommodate additional blowby produced under higher load conditions. The vacuum level where the PCV Valve transitions from a low flow idle mode to an increased flow cruise mode has always been a source of guesswork, and is a critical component of your tuneup. Dual Flow PCV Technology allows the user to precisely set the idle to cruise transition point.

df17_tuning_3.jpg


The DF-17-VAC Vacuum Tuning Kit (included with every DF-17 PCV Valve) allows tuning the idle to cruise transition with a vacuum gauge, for the ultimate in tuning accuracy. The vacuum gauge is used to monitor internal vacuum circuitry in the valve, and will indicate precisely when the PCV Valve has transitioned from idle to cruise mode.

ELIMINATE THE GUESSWORK FROM YOUR PCV SYSTEM!

Note: A vacuum gauge is not required for tuning, however M/E Wagner recommends this as the most accurate tuning method. The idle to cruise transition point can also be set visually.

Fixed orifice mode tuning is also available for extreme performance applications.

Also see our how-to videos for further information on tuning functionality. Each valve ships with a printed set of instructions, which can also be previewed or downloaded here.


Features patent pending Dual Flow technology.
$129.00
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Rick
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby grumpyvette » August 21st, 2013, 12:37 pm

good info post!
nice find!
interesting concept!
but I doubt its critical to how the engine performs if you know how to tune and trouble shoot tuning issues
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby bytor » August 21st, 2013, 3:44 pm

That is kinda cool. Anyone getting one?

This got me thinking, how can you check a normal PVC valve idle to cruse operating point?
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby Indycars » August 21st, 2013, 5:21 pm


I was hoping that reading their manual, I could get some insight into testing an OEM PCV. But I don't think their info would apply to any other valve, since the readings are taken from inside their valve.

Rick
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby 87vette81big » August 21st, 2013, 5:35 pm

Are you going to try that adjustable PCV Rick ?

Not planning to use a PCV on my engines.
But do have advantage on the street.
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby Indycars » August 21st, 2013, 5:55 pm


Not for that price. If I have a problem with an OEM valve, then that might
be an option if I can't come up with something else that works.

Rick
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby 87vette81big » August 21st, 2013, 6:51 pm

Indycars wrote:
Not for that price. If I have a problem with an OEM valve, then that might
be an option if I can't come up with something else that works.



There is a trick to restricting stock PCV Flow.
You take a 3/8" inch piece of roundstock aluminum.
Cutoff 1/2 - 3/4 inch long.
Then drill a .043 - 1/16" hole through the center.
Debur.
Drop of motor oil on homemade PCV Restrictor.
Push the restrictor into 3/8" rubber fuel hose about 1 inch in deep.
Install PCV & hose restrictor.
Cost is FREE.!
Works real good on Pontiac V8'S.
PCV Provission in the stamped steel bolt on Valley Pan.
Great street & strip setup with dual valvecover breathers used.
1 on each valvecover.
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby 87vette81big » August 21st, 2013, 6:54 pm

Found Carburator tuning easier with a Hot Camshaft.
PCV Restrictor in place.

Don't want the looks of emission anything on my 410 or 425 Olds.

Trick should work just fine on a SBC & BBC.
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby Indycars » August 22nd, 2013, 7:34 am

87vette81big wrote:
PCV Provission in the stamped steel bolt on Valley Pan.


Sounds like a cool idea using a fixed orifice, but what are you
talking about above?

I just reread your post again, it sounds like you are using both
a PCV and fixed orifice to reduce the flow?

Rick
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby 87vette81big » August 22nd, 2013, 9:41 am

Indycars wrote:
87vette81big wrote:
PCV Provission in the stamped steel bolt on Valley Pan.


Sounds like a cool idea using a fixed orifice, but what are you
talking about above?

I just reread your post again, it sounds like you are using both
a PCV and fixed orifice to reduce the flow?


Pontiac 1955-63 V8's 287ci, 316ci, 348ci, 370ci, 389, &421ci use a Road Draft Tube for Crankcase Ventilation
Starting in 1964 1St emission equiment was mandated.
PCV. Used on all Pontiac V8's till 1981.
There is a stamped steel valley pan right below intake manifold.
PCV rubber grommet holds valve in. Push in deally.
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby 87vette81big » August 22nd, 2013, 9:44 am

Air gap style intake. Hot crankcase oil never touches intake.
1973-74 Pontiac SD455 Has PCV in driver's side oil cap.
Solid rubber plug in valley pan.
Yes use PCV & restrict flow.
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby bytor » August 29th, 2013, 12:29 pm

Hey Indycars, what PCV did you decide to use? I ended up using a GM 8995284 / Fram FV191. It seems to have been used on mostly smaller V6’s and 305’s but it was also used on the 89-91 Corvette 5.7. It has a larger plunger compared to the FV184 I was using initially. I think it's nearly impossible to figure out what a stock PCV flows or when it transitions into cruse/WOT mode. It would be interesting to see what stock PCV part# other guys are running. Obviously cam and engine vacuum properties will cause variances.

FV184 with .20" plunger
IMG_0912.JPG


FV191 with .26 plunger
IMG_0913.JPG


BTW, I sent an email to the folks M/E Wagner Performance asking if they would consider doing a forum group purchase deal. I noticed on another forum, they got a 25% discount is 6 folks purchased one of their dual flow PCV. Just sent it today, no response yet. Stay tuned.
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby Indycars » August 29th, 2013, 2:31 pm


I used a CV746C. It was used most from 1968-1972 on many Camaros and Corvettes with big blocks in them. But on the other side it was also used in the Ford Pinto. It just doesn't seem possible to make an educated guess as to what might work best.

Use the link below and then click on "Compatibility" for the full list.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0023

Where did you find the size of the plunger? I wonder ..... if it has a larger plunger, does that mean less flow or more flow???

It will interesting to see if they give a discount, even then it's going to be expensive.

Rick
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Re: adding a PVC or VALVE COVER BREATHER HOLE IN VALVE COVER

Postby bytor » August 29th, 2013, 2:58 pm

Indycars wrote:Where did you find the size of the plunger? I wonder ..... if it has a larger plunger, does that mean less flow or more flow???

After removing the 90* plastic fitting, I was able to push the plunger all the way up so just enough poked out to slap a micrometer on it. Like in the two pictures. I'm sure it has less flow but that’s the big unknown. How much is too much. The idle and off-idle cleaned up a bit going to the smaller one and I have about 1.95 Hg more vac at idle.

It would be nice if a PCV specifications document existed that had the orifice/plunger dimensions as well as reverence flow and vacuum data.
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