cam wear,articles you need to read



cam wear,articles you need to read

Postby grumpyvette » September 30th, 2008, 9:40 am

links worth reading thru
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=6237

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=2746

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1489

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=9815

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1334&p=2910#p2910

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ctr ... ubricants/

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HERES A FEW OF THE OILS I TRUST, coat flat tappet lifters and cam lobes with crane moly assembly paste lube
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I usually use 6-7 quarts of oil and 1 quart of marvel mystery oil added in my oil pan 11 quart oil pan and oil cooler system capacity

10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil
10W30 Valvoline NSL
10w30 Castrol GTX conventional,
10w30 mobile 1
10w30 KENDAL racing oil

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and heres a good break in additive for flat tappet lifter cams
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-86092
READ THRU THIS LINK
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=4793
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If your not getting oil flow, at the rockers,youll still need to verify the oil feed holes line up and are not blocked and the rockers adjusted correctly, try backing off on the adjustment nut as the engine idles to the point the rocker clicks noticeably then slowly tighten just to the point the noise stops , then add only a 1/4 turn, and see if that doesn,t cure the oil feed issue

Isky claims that the Comp XE cams violate the 47.5% rule. The 47.5% rule applies to flat tappet cams for SBCs with 1.5 rockers but the concept is still the same for other configurations where the designs are "on the edge" or "over the edge" for lobe intensity. For 1.5 ratio SBCs, the duration at .050 must exceed 47.5% of the total valve lift or your asking valve train problems. For example, take a Comp Cams Magnum 280H, with 230 duration and, 480 lift...230/.480 = 47.9% which exceeds 47.5% therefore would not pose a threat to components. We do not regularly hear about the older, safer HE and Magnum designs rounding off lobes anywhere near as often as the XE cam designs. Unfortunately, some of the Comp Cams XE dual pattern lobes break this 47.5% rule on the intake side so they are likely to be problematic. The design has "steeper" ramps that are too quick for durability and reliability according to other cam manufacturers. They will wipe lobes in a heart beat especially if you have not followed the proper break-in procedure. Other designs are more forgiving during break-in and less likely to fail.
READ THIS THREAD
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=6491&p=20681&hilit=spray+springs+cooling#p20681

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=788

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=150#p150

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1701&p=4160&hilit=distributor+bronze#p4160

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1489

http://www.nitemareperformance.150m.com/ZDDP.html

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=799&p=1161#p1161

http://s572.photobucket.com/albums/ss16 ... mpCams.flv

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles ... index.html

adding e.o.s. to your oil is beneficial during the cam break-in, but it tends to leave deposits that can cause detonation over time in the combustion chambers
NOTE:1200PPM-1400PPM ZDDP IS THE GENERAL RECOMMENDED MINIMUM ZDDP LEVEL FOR FLAT TAPPET CAMS WITH THE HOT CAMS WITH HI SPRING RATES BEING AT THE HIGHER 1350-1400PPM
CAST CAM CORES ARE NOT DESIGNED TO HANDLE OVER ABOUT 130lbs SEAT and 400lbs OPEN SPRING LOADS YOU NEED A BILLET CAM CORE FOR DURABILITY IF THOSE LIMITS ARE EXCEEDED
ID suggest you read these links
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... fters.aspx
http://automotivemileposts.com/zddp.html

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1552&p=3579#p3579

http://zddppluscentral.com/

http://www.crower.com/misc/product/dl/ZDDP_clr.pdf
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the slight bevel on the cam lobe and the slight convex surface on the lifter base in combination with the lobe center-line being slightly offset from the blocks lifter bore results in the lifter rotating in its bores as the lobe rotates under the lifter base
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very good
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very very good

read this

Molybdenum Disulfide (Moly) has been used for decades in lubricating pastes and greases because it is slippery and forms a protective coating on metal parts:

Single Molecule of MolyMoly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving engine parts rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on all of your engine parts. This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your engine.

The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your engine surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the metal engine parts.

This coating effectively fills in the microscopic pores that cover the surface of all engine parts, making them smoother. This feature is important in providing an effective seal on the combustion chamber. By filling in the craters and pores Moly improves this seal allowing for more efficient combustion and engine performance.
This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. These forces occur on the bearings, and lifters. The high pressures that occur between these moving parts tend to squeeze normal lubricants out
http://streetmuscleaction.com/wp-conten ... reakin.pdf

spraying the cam surface with moly and then coating it with moly assembly lube before installation tends to help.
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http://www.globalindustrial.com/gcs/pro ... paignId=WZ

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viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=150#p150

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... index.html

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=615&hilit=+mobile+filter

http://www.compcams.com/Community/Artic ... 1578676008

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... index.html

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=799&p=1161#p1161

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265&hilit=+magnets#p3265

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/oil/index.html

http://www.rehermorrison.com/techtalk/47.htm

http://www.cam-shield.com/index.html

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=1515

http://www.pbm-erson.com/uploads/cat%5B ... CEDURE.pdf

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/cams ... index.html

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&hilit=+magnets

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http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... index.html

the assembly lube, oil and clearances are critical to durability

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

you might want to read thru this

preventing cam & lifter break-in failures

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=1515

http://www.pbm-erson.com/uploads/cat%5B ... CEDURE.pdf

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/oil/index.html

OPTIONS

it should be rather obvious that theres options, cam failures are usually the result of incorrect CLEARANCES or too much SPRING PRESSURE or LACK of ADEQUATE LUBRICATION,USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE, and decent quality oil, adding MAGNETS to trap metallic CRUD HELPS, be sure to change your oil filter and oil after the first 3-4 hours or 100 miles as theres bound to be crud and assembly lube trapped in the oil and filter
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the old familiar stuffs Part #1052367 is getting hard to find
E.O.S. was discontinued but.....
http://www.sdparts.com/product/1052367/GMEngineOilSupplimentEOS16ozBottle.aspx
the new stuff...
http://www.acdelco.com/html/pi_vehcare_lub.htm
(use the drop down menu)
Part 10-106
12371532
E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant (1 pint)

its still available if you know where to look, most but not all parts counter guys will know this but youll run into a few who just insist its not available


http://www.cranecams.com/?show=promo&id=48

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=939&p=1582&hilit=+filter+tool#p1582

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2080

btw MOLY base lubes are your first and best break-in lube during the first few minutes

http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=15

http://www.cranecams.com/pdf/548e.pdf

its also a real good idea to drill the pass side oil plug under the timing cover with a .030-.035 drill so oil constantly sprays on the timing chain during use,and while IM discussing cam timing sets Id say that about 90% of the time a good CLOYES timing chain set should be used on street cars vs a gear drive if that's one option your thinking about.
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drilling the pass side oil passage plug with a 1/32" bit so oil constantly sprays on the timing gears helps extend chain and gear life.

CRANES Super Lube Break-In Concentrate is an anti-wear additive formulated with a high concentration of special zinc dithiophosphate to provide sustained protection against cam lobe and lifter scuffing and wear. This oil supplement is to be added to the engine oil for the initial break-in period after the installation of a new camshaft and lifters.
Now it should be obvious that reducing the pressure at the contact point between the lifter and the cam lobe will tend to reduce the tendency for lifter & lobe wear, and increasing the coolant flow at that point helps, so its generally a good idea to remove the INNER spring on DUAL spring valve trains during the break -in process, to reduce pressures while the parts lap in, and a few minutes with some 1000grit sand paper to remove burrs from the lifter edge sure helps in most cases

Part No. 99003-1 -- 8-ounce container
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a decent BILLET cam core and quality roller lifters will prevent a great deal of cam lobe wear issues
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even roller cams can wipe out lobes if the valve train components or valve train lubrication, geometry is not set up correctly
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a small hole 1/16" intersecting the oil feed passage to provide pressurized oil to the rear of the timing gear won,t hurt, and tends to reduce block wear
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or if your into serious mods
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have you seen this
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-86092

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BEEHIVE SPRINGS and FORGED STEEL ROCKERS GIVE A GOOD DEAL MORE ROCKER TO RETAINER CLEARANCE
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BTW BEFORE SOMEONE ASKE'S, YOU CAN NOT USE A ROLLER TAPPET ON A FLAT TAPPET CAM OR A FLAT TAPPET LIFTER ON A ROLLER CAM< BECAUSE...of several reasons, the main one is that, flat tappet cams have BEVELED LOBES, roller cams have PARALLEL LOBE RAMPS, you can NOT mix and match, the lobe on either cam will quickly DESTROY the other type of lifter design, if its mistakenly installed

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USED LIFTERS TEND TO BE A BAD BET ON CAM DURABILITY
FLAT TAPPET
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ROLLER CAM

use of the best friction reducing MOLY assembly lube plus the better oils, helps reduce cam lobe wear issues
proper clearances ARE MANDATORY
Moly Basics
Molybdenum Disulfide

posting.php?mode=edit&f=52&p=34840
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BRAKE IN LUBE
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-86092
Molybdenum is a very hard metal with a number of industrial uses.
It is combined with chromium in steel to make the steel harder and more resistant to bending. Most of the bicycle frames produced today use chromium and molybdenum steel. Because the steel is so much harder, the manufacturers can use less, thereby making the frame lighter.

Molybdenum Disulfide (Moly) has been used for decades in lubricating pastes and greases because it is slippery and forms a protective coating on metal parts.

Moly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving engine parts rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on all of your engine parts. This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your engine.

Image

The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your engine surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the metal engine parts.

This coating effectively fills in the microscopic pores that cover the surface of all engine parts, making them smoother. This feature is important in providing an effective seal on the combustion chamber. By filling in the craters and pores Moly improves this seal allowing for more efficient combustion and engine performance.
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This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. These forces occur on the bearings, and lifters. The high pressures that occur between these moving parts tend to squeeze normal lubricants out.



Eventually, there is metal to metal contact, which damages these moving parts and creates large amounts of heat. Fortunately, this is not the case with some lubricants.The layer of moly that forms on these moving surfaces can withstand pressures of 500,000 psi, without being squeezed out.

Engineers and scientists have tried for years to use Moly in motor oils but they had been unsuccessful because they could not find a way to keep Moly in suspension. Once Moly was put into suspension it would gradually settle out. It was easy to see it come out of suspension because a black sludge would collect on the bottom of the oil containers. In engines it would settle to the bottom of the crankcase or clog oil pathways and filters.

Engineers have overcome these obstacles. They have developed a process that keeps Moly in suspension and isn’t filtered out. Since that time theproduct has undergone extensive independent testing in labs and in the field for many years to insure that the product stands up to the rigorous needs of today’s engines. With the plating action of Moly reducing friction which reduces heat, this helps keep rings free from carbon buildup, prevents blow-by, decreases emission, and extends oil life.
ASSEMBLY LUBE USED ON CAMS AND LIFTERS ROCKERS< BEARINGS ETC. like CRANE CAM LUBE, has molybdenium disulfide in assembly lube, that helps maintain a strong heat resistant high pressure lubricating support film on sliding surfaces, BUT assembly lube is NOT INTERCHANGEABLE WITH MOLY AXLE GREASE
which has other ADDITIVES, in some cases its mixed with non-compatible lithium grease base,
you must use a moly based assembly lube thats designed to mix with automotive oil to provide a strong surface film on sliding surfaces

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-based_grease


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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: cam wear, circle track mag article you need to rea

Postby grumpyvette » October 3rd, 2008, 8:17 pm

IT should be obvious that you'll need to pre-prime the blocks oil passages and adjust the rockers so oil flows from the rockers with the engine being pre-primed with a priming tool being used BEFORE trying to start any engine with a new cam to insure oil flow begins instantly on the engines start-up,you WON,T get oil to all lifters equally unless the engines crank & cam are spinning,(so during testing spin the engine slowly with a breaker bar or ratchet), because the oil passages feeding the lifters aligns differently at different lifts,your oil leak at the distributor base is normal, but the clearances and flow may be excessive, with a priming tool, some are not nearly to spec. ID measure the diam. of the oil pump primer and then measure the distributor base, Id bet the distributor base is larger and fits better, which reduces the potential for leakage.
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those bottom two bands form a wall on the oil passage, some guys cut a rounded grove and install an O-RING so the upper band seals too the block, you don,t want to do that to the lower band simply because that's the oil flow source to the distributor /cam gear
20 psi is about normal for your typical 3/8 drill,max pressure is not nearly as important as checking flow, and for leaks where there should not be leaks, with an engine primer tool,Ive brazed a socket to the top of my oil pump primer and use the 1/2" drive air ratchet to drive it, it won,t heat up and burn up like a electric drill will.
don,t get alarmed if you get zero pressure or flow for a few seconds,(the oil filter and passages need to fill first) that's one reason WHY your pre-priming, to get oil flow to the bearings instantly on start up , you don,t want them running without oil flow if you can prevent it even for 20 seconds

you might want to read thru this

»http://www.cranecams.com/?show=article&id=2

FROM MORTEC
If you are building a big block Chevy with a flat tappet cam, (solid or hydraulic lifters) be careful during the initial engine break in. It is very easy to lose a cam lobe and lifter during initial break in. This is especially true with a higher than stock lift cam and higher pressure valve springs. The increased pushrod angles found on the BBC and poor preparation can make cam lobe failure after initial fireup a distinct possibility. You can help prevent this cam lobe failure by making sure the engine is prelubed prior to intial fireup. Use a good high pressure lube on the cam lobes and lifter bottoms during assembly. If possible use a lighter pressure stock valve spring (or if using a valve spring with multiple springs, take out some of the inner springs) to intially run the engine. Then switch to the heavier pressure springs after break in. When the engine is first fired up, keep the engine rpms at 2,500 or above, don't let the engine idle for 20 minutes or longer. This keeps lots of oil splashing up on the cam lobes. Make sure the engine can be run for this time period by having enough fuel available, ignition timing set correctly, coolant available for the motor, valve lash set correctly, etc. The idea is not to crank the motor over excessively before it starts up for the first time. If your BBC flat tappet cam survives this initial break in period, it will be good to go for many miles. After the initial engine breakin, drain the oil and change the oil filter. Roller cams generally do not suffer these types of cam lobe failures during initial engine fireup.
if youve adjusted the valves correctly the lifter spins at all rpm levels,but that does NOT mean it wears EVENLY at all rpm levels due to several factors if you look closely AT FLAT TAPPET CAMS youll see that the center of the cam lobe is NOT centered under the lifter and that the lifter surface is slightly angled , BOTH these factors force the lifter to spin in its bore as the lobe passes under the lifter slightly off center.

SOME of the reasons the higher rpm durring the break in phase is important is that

(1) the faster RPMs the better chances the lobe passes under the lifter floated on an oil film and the less time the oil film has to squeeze out between them

(2) the higher the RPM the greater the oil voluum and pressure the engine pumps and the more oil flow is available at the lobes

(3)the higher the rpm level the more oil is thrown from the rods onto the cam lobes

(4)the higher the rpm the greater the lifters weight and inertia tends to compensate for the springs pressure and lower the net pressure as the lifter passes over the cam lobes nose

(5) at higher rpm speed the better chance a small wedge of oil is trapped between the lifter base and lobe from the oil thrown from the lobes surface by centrifical force

(6) two differant metal surfaces scraping past each other at low speeds may tend to wear and GALL as the oil is sqeezed out but two differant hardness steel surfaces that impact each other at higher speeds covered with oil tend to work harden as they mate and will tend to be seperated by that oil

(7)as the lifter spins in its bore the contact point between the lobe and lifter base constantly changes and rotates with the lobe contact point not resisting its passage and the higher the rpms the faster the lifter rotates and the less time the lobe spends at any one point

VALVOLINE BRAND RACING OIL HAS THE HIGH ZINK/PHOSPHATE LEVELS that help prevent cam wear

BTW ADD E.O.S. to the oil and MOLY break-in lube to the cam
before starting the engine and prefill the filter and pre-prime the oil system before starting the engine.
I normally pour it in just before starting the engines cam break in,procedure. because I want to make sure that nothing in the oil/E.O.S. mix can settle out from sitting over a long period of time. now if your running a flat tappet cam you should have also used a moly cam lube on the lobes and be useing a mineral base oil for the break-in procedure, and youll need to do an oil and filter change after about the first 3-4 hours running time to remove that moly cam lube from the engine after its served its purpose of protecting the cams lobes and lifters at start up, aND AS THE LOBES/LIFTERS LAPPED IN. MOSTLY to prevent that moly grease and E.O.S from potentially partially clogging the filter after that mix cools down,but also because both those lubes might leave deposites in the combustion chamber ,over time that might aggravate detonation.
even G.M. suggests that E.O.S. is not a great long term oil suppliment, and that its main function is to add extra oil film strength durring new engine break in.

1052367
ENGOILSUP
EOS - Engine Assembly Prelube<BR>Specifically formulated as an engine assembly lubricant. E.O.S. provides outstanding protection against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in camshaft lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication
don,t forget a few magnets in the oil pan goes a long way towards trapping unwanted metalic dust formed from the cam and rings lapping in durring break-in that might otherwise get imbedded in your bearings or cause other problems
heres the magnets I use in every engine

http://www.wondermagnets.com/cgi-bin/ed ... logno=0035«

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=reasonsForFailure

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb50232.htm

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/t ... p_running/

I generally mix some moly assembly lube or that melling assembly lube and MARVEL MYSTERY OIL in a container and dip solid rollers into the mix to soak for a few minutes, before installing them, its not as critical with roller lifters as with flat tappet lifters

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AND /OR
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-153/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-M-10012

.most guys I know , that are breaking in the rings and bearings and valve train on a newly rebuilt engine, simply stick a garden hose into the radiator and let it constantly overflow onto the driveway , or they fill the radiator and seal it then place a garden hose so it runs water over the radiator outer surface,while the engine, and cam is being broken in, as its a sure way to keep the coolant temps fairly low. so no.there's no reason you can't fill the radiator with water, break in the engine then replace the coolant!, so if you do have a coolant leak your not leaking anti-freeze all over the place, until yoou get the engine tested and broken in, BTW (be sure all the gauges and sensors are correctly hooked up and working) have a timing light , distributor wrench,and fire extinguisher handy and I usually try to have a dripping wet beach towel handy as its great for quickly smothering carb fires, without the mess a fire extinguisher makes, if you get unlucky and be sure you double check the oil and trans fluid and be sure to fill and bleed the brakes and check power steering fluids also
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: cam wear,articles you need to read

Postby grumpyvette » January 20th, 2009, 4:08 pm

BBC engines have developed a reputation for eating cam lobes because most guys either don,t break the cam in correctly or are not willing to make the mods necessary to supply the extra oil flow that prevents it from HAPPENING with the INCREASED Pressures aftermarket cams with their higher lift, duration,ETC. and springs produce
first ID strongly suggest a high volume oil pump and a windage screen with a baffled high volume pan,
use the solids with the extra oil bleed hole that feeds oil to the lifter/cam lobe contact area
http://www.crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml (pr107)

both crower and comp cams sell them, but they are fairly expensive compared to standard solid lifters, I tend to use them when I can get them but it might be overkill on the oil flow to some extent because I use this tool too put a slight groove in the lifter bores that constantly sprays oil onto the cam lobe at a point just before it rolls under the lifter base
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http://www.compcams.com/catalog/335.html

if you've adjusted the valves correctly the lifter spins at all rpm levels,but that does NOT mean it wears EVENLY at all rpm levels due to several factors if you look closely AT FLAT TAPPET CAMS , youll see that the center of the cam lobe is NOT centered under the lifter and that the lifter surface is slightly angled , BOTH these factors force the lifter to spin in its bore as the lobe passes under the lifter slightly off center.
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SOME of the reasons the higher rpm during the break in phase is important is that

(1) the faster RPMs the better chances the lobe passes under the lifter floated on an oil film and the less time the oil film has to squeeze out between them

(2) the higher the RPM the greater the oil volume and pressure the engine pumps and the more oil flow is available at the lobes

(3)the higher the rpm level the more oil is thrown from the rods onto the cam lobes

(4)the higher the rpm the greater the lifters weight and inertia tends to compensate for the springs pressure and lower the net pressure as the lifter passes over the cam lobes nose

(5) at higher rpm speed the better chance a small wedge of oil is trapped between the lifter base and lobe from the oil thrown from the lobes surface by centrifugal force

(6) two different metal surfaces scraping past each other at low speeds may tend to wear and GALL as the oil is squeezed out but two different hardness steel surfaces that impact each other at higher speeds covered with oil tend to work harden as they mate and will tend to be separated by that oil

(7)as the lifter spins in its bore the contact point between the lobe and lifter base constantly changes and rotates with the lobe contact point not resisting its passage and the higher the rpms the faster the lifter rotates and the less time the lobe spends at any one point

BTW ADD E.O.S. to the oil and MOLY break-in lube to the cam
before starting the engine and pre-fill the filter and pre-prime the oil system before starting the engine.
I normally pour it in just before starting the engines cam break in,procedure. because I want to make sure that nothing in the oil/E.O.S. mix can settle out from sitting over a long period of time. now if your running a flat tappet cam you should have also used a moly cam lube on the lobes and be using a mineral base oil for the break-in procedure, and you'll need to do an oil and filter change after about the first 3-4 hours running time to remove that moly cam lube from the engine after its served its purpose of protecting the cams lobes and lifters at start up, and AS THE LOBES/LIFTERS LAPPED IN. MOSTLY to prevent that moly grease and E.O.S from potentially partially clogging the filter after that mix cools down,but also because both those lubes might leave deposits in the combustion chamber ,over time that might aggravate detonation.
even G.M. suggests that E.O.S. is not a great long term oil supplement, and that its main function is to add extra oil film strength during new engine break in.


high spring loads, lack of lube, low oil flow, and the wrong clearances , don,t play well with roller or flat tappet cams over long term use
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1052367
ENGOILSUP
EOS - Engine Assembly Prelube<BR>Specifically formulated as an engine assembly lubricant. E.O.S. provides outstanding protection against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in camshaft lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication Image
don,t forget a few magnets in the oil pan goes a long way towards trapping unwanted metalic dust formed from the cam and rings lapping in durring break-in that might otherwise get imbedded in your bearings or cause other problems
heres the magnets I use in every engine

naturally you need to verify the oil and coolant levels are correct,and set your valve preload or lash a bit loose, then since your not going to run the engine at low rpm you install timing tape on the damper and verify TDC on the damper and timing tab match TDC on the engine, then you set the timing at 3200rpm at about 34 degrees btdc during the break in, during the first few seconds it runs
remember it will tend to run a bit hot if the fuel/air ratio gets lean(VACUUM LEAKS)
or if the timings RETARDED, and while the rings and valve train break_in (LAP IN)so a moly cam lube and a quart of marvel mystery oil and some E.O.S. or crower lube helps reduce heat.
http://www.crower.com/misc/product/dl/ZDDP_clr.pdf
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-86092/

standard procedure during cam break-in is to place a garden hose flowing water thru the radiator fins, as the hoses water flow absorbs heat far more effectively from the radiator surface, it helps to have a large shop fan blowing air also


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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-4599/?image=large

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viewtopic.php?f=50&t=723

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-4598/

the use of timing tape on the damper is a huge help and yeah, the glue on the tape tends to get loose so use some contact cement sparingly, the contact cement works, but a simple spray coat of a clear lacquer spray paint sprayed over the tape and allowed to dry locks it on the damper fairly well also, or you can spend just a bit more, and buy a damper cover, and adjustable timing tab, just remember to verify TDC

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=799&p=2048&hilit=break+in+moly#p2048

http://www.wondermagnets.com/cgi-bin/edatcat/WMSstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=0035

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=reasonsForFailure
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: cam wear,articles you need to read

Postby grumpyvette » January 30th, 2009, 11:47 am

Cam Failures: Some thoughts on cam and lifter wear
By Charles Reichard (FROM CAMCRAFT SITE)

http://www.camcraft-cams.com/index.php? ... m-failures

There has been a lot of discussion regarding the increase in flat tappet cam failure the last few years. Much finger pointing goes toward our only domestic flat lifter supplier, Stanadyne. We started using Stanadyne lifters about a year and a half before the lifter shortage hit. We had NO increase in lifter failures when we changed over. The lifters look different so there was no old stock involved or anything like that. One order we got Eaton’s and the next Stanadyne’s. The primary visible difference was the Eaton lifters were Parkerized on the bottom and the Stanadynes were not. The metering system is also different. The Parkerizing is a protective coating used on cams and sometimes lifters that disappears a few seconds after startup. This coating is deposited in an acid solution that slightly degrades the finish on the lifter foot. According to Stanadyne, they have made no change in their lifter manufacturing procedures or materials.

Chrysler Corp. stopped Parkerizing all their cams many years ago when they discovered this degradation of the surface finish actually contributed to cam failures in their 2.2L OHC engines.

Almost all domestic camshaft castings come from the CWC foundry in Muskegon, MI. The heat-treating is done at the foundry. While there can be several different casting patterns used for each engine, the material is usually identical except for the P55 castings. The heat-treating is also identical. There have been no changes at CWC or at their customers supplying semi-finished castings to the performance market other than some increased automation. About the only significant difference in the castings is the lobe width, with wider lobes offering greater load carrying ability.

Why then are we seeing an increase in cam failure? There are several contributing factors. The first and likely primary factor is the lack of zinc additive in most of today’s oils. As I understand it, all oils for highway use have NO ZINC. Zinc has, for many years, been one of the primary antiwear additives in motor oils. Due to factors involving contamination of catalytic converters, zinc has been outlawed in motor oils for highway use. There has been a decrease in zinc content for several years but as of January 1, 2004, it is eliminated in all oils for highway use. If an oil contains zinc, it must be labeled “ for off road use only” or “Not for highway use”. Diesel oils may be an exception. Several of our racing customers have switched to 15W40 diesel oil with good results. (6/1/2007 Word is out that zinc has now been removed or substantially reduced in the diesel oils)

A very useful web site with lots of oil related information is www.bobistheoilguy.com. I had only a few minutes to peruse the site but it had lots of very useful information. Check it out!

Another significant factor is the increased use of synthetic oil. While some synthetic oil works ok with flat tappet cams, many do not. Never break in a fresh engine with synthetic oil. There are no cam grinders that I know of that recommend the use of any synthetic oil with flat tappet cams. The use of synthetics is primarily needed in very high temperature or low temperature applications. If you properly control the oil temperature you have less need for synthetics. Several of our customers add 2 quarts of conventional oil to their synthetic oil with good results.

An excellent additive with high zinc content is General Motors EOS. I haven’t seen a new bottle yet but I have heard that the label has been changed from engine oil supplement to engine assembly lubricant so it won’t be used as an oil additive regularly. I have heard on good authority that EOS is not compatible with Mobile 1 synthetic oil. That doesn’t necessarily mean anything as to compatibility with other synthetic oils. Other companies such as Prolong, have similar additives.

Another significant factor continues to be lack of proper break in procedure. While many engine builders remove the inner spring for break in, often this is not enough. Higher rocker ratios popular today mean increased spring pressures and very significantly higher stress across the nose of the lobe. Often the open pressure with outer springs only is still too high for proper break in with these higher ratio rockers. We like to see open pressures less than 275 lbs for break in.

The best break in involves 1.2 or 1.3 rockers with the inner springs removed. After 30 minutes at 1500-2500 rpm install the inner springs and run with the break in rockers. Next run with 1.5 rockers, and then with the final rocker ratio to be used. This is time consuming to say the least but not nearly as time consuming as disassembling the engine to clean out several ground up lobes and buying gaskets, rings and bearings at the least. Our customers that follow this procedure have far fewer cam failures than the ones who don’t.

It is very important that the engine fire immediately. Excessive cranking will wipe the assembly lube from the cam and lifters. Be sure the timing is set and the carb full of fuel. The engine should run between 1500 and 2500 rpm for about 30 minutes. Vary the speed a bit during the break in.

Many customers like to point the finger to soft lobes or defective castings. Having a soft lobe is as likely as putting your hand in a bucket of water and having 1 finger come out dry. A single soft casting is unlikely as well. We buy Small Block Chevy castings 65 to 150 at a time. If there is a defective batch of castings then we are going to see a huge number of failures in the space of a few days from several different customers. If you have 1 or 2 worn lobes and the rest look fine then there is nothing wrong with the cam. About the only issue that the cam grinder controls is the taper on the lobe. Even this can vary a bit with no ill consequences. Another less obvious factor is the lobe lift for a given duration and rocker ratio. A lobe design that has too much lift for the duration will have a sharper nose radius. This has a detrimental effect on wear and is greatly aggravated by high rocker ratios. Sometimes it is advantageous to use a little less lobe lift to still take advantage of the faster valve opening offered by the higher rocker ratio.

Then there are the failures that we can only file under “stuff happens”. We see strange things, like obvious indications that the lifter was not rotating for a short time but with no major failure. This is often indicated by a thin line the width of the lobe on the bottom of the lifter. It can be seen and felt easily. We have seen this several times in cams with 6 or more races and significant dyno time that have virtually no cam wear. After replacing the lifters there were no further problems. Obviously the lifter had started rotating again at some point. Lifters frequently don’t rotate much if at all at idle or low rpm. Some engine builders cut a slot on the inner side of an old valve cover so they can observe pushrod rotation at higher engine speed without getting an oil bath.

It is critical to make sure race engines do not idle at low rpm for prolonged periods. The cam and lifters depend largely on splash lubrication for survival and there isn’t much splash going on at idle. Also the lifters will rotate less at low rpm.

Another less obvious thing is using a heavy cam lube on the sides of the lifter. This can temporally inhibit lifter rotation. Use only light motor oil on the lifter body and the heavy lube on the bottom of the lifter and the lobe. Don’t forget to lube the distributor drive gear and fuel pump lobe as well. Be sure to check the actual lifter clearance in the lifter bore

I am a great believer in preheating the oil and water in any performance engine. It can be difficult to heat the oil for some but anyone can put hot water in the radiator for initial startup. A small torpedo heater can be used to warm up the oil if you don’t want to spring for a little heat pad that sticks on the oil pan. Some people use a heat lamp near the pan for an hour or so. It is also important to initially break in the engine with lighter oil so it can get circulating more quickly. We don’t have to worry about heavy loads or high temperatures during break in.

Sometimes, despite your best efforts, you still wipe out a cam occasionally. If the proper procedures were not followed then you know why. Often people say, “I never did all that stuff before and never had a problem. Why should I do it now? Today’s cam profiles are very different from those of a decade ago. They impose a higher load more quickly than older designs due to higher acceleration rates and frequently have higher lift. Also valve springs are significantly improved and often have higher open pressure. If you don’t follow proper break in procedure then you will experience cam failure sooner or later.

Another frequently overlooked item is truing the lifter bores. Lifter bores are frequently not located properly even in brand new blocks. Even if they are not tilted fore and aft, which would create excessive wear, they can be mislocated axially which would change the cam timing on those cylinders causing a loss in power. Even brand new blocks should get lifter bores trued, bushed and precision bored and honed. The lifter bore clearance is different for different types and diameter lifters. Check with the lifter manufacturer for proper clearance.

When you use 1.2 or 1.3 rockers for break in, be sure to trial fit them before final assembly of the head. They frequently require elongation of the rocker arm slot or hole away from the rocker stud. This is the opposite of the work required for high ratio rockers that require machining the slot toward the stud.

Following all the proper procedures for cam and lifter break in doesn’t necessarily guarantee you will never wipe out a cam but it increases your chances for success 10 fold. We have several NASCAR Late Model Stock customers that get 2 or even 3 seasons out of a cam and lifters. They typically race 75-150 laps every week + practice and qualifying. That represents a lot of laps.

Everyone should be evaluating their break in procedures. You can spend a little extra time initially or much more time and money doing it over later. Be sure to evaluate your oil and be certain it contains zinc. It is a good idea to use an oil additive high in zinc content. Flat tappet cams can provide long life and very good power output if they are properly installed and broken in carefully.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: cam wear,articles you need to read

Postby grumpyvette » February 17th, 2009, 1:35 pm

youll be best served following the manufacturers suggested clearances or (LASH). if your running a solid lifter cam, if they suggest .016 than set them at that, its not critical that they are EXACTLY .016-018,should be fine, but get it as close as you reasonably can.
generally set them on a warm engine , but be 100% sure the valve train geometry and clearances are correct and oil flows from each individual pushrod to each rocker,
heres a few useful links

http://www.wallaceracing.com/valvelash.htm

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=faq&id=4

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... index.html

http://www.centuryperformance.com/adjus ... g-149.html

http://www.small-block-chevy.com/cb_5.htm

http://guarddogmolylubricants.com/about-moly.shtml

http://www.rosemill.com/html/WhatTheHeckIsMoly.pdf

1/4 turn in from the point the lifter just stops clicking at idle has worked the best over the years for me
Ive always found the final adjusting of HYDRAULIC LIFTERS is best done at idle, with the engine up to operating temps., as it allows for all the variables like heat expansion and lifter seat movement as the oil pressure lifts the push rod seat) of course a tall valve cover roughly similar to this mod helps reduce the potential for a mess
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: cam wear,articles you need to read

Postby grumpyvette » April 7th, 2009, 11:58 am

well theres several ways, use of a magnetic base with a dial indicator will allow you to compare each rocker as it moves thru it arc. the intake rockers and then the exhaust lobe readings should all match within a few thousands of an inch

read thru these links

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=528

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=282

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... umber=5646

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=93295

visual inspection on a BIG BLOCK is easier than on a sbc, but heres a tool that will help at times

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=881&p=1389&hilit=leakdown#p1389

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1514

don,t forget as many guys do, that swapping to a higher ratio rocker changes the push-rod rocker geometry,and clearances, and may require a different length push-rods.

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viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2839&p=7344&hilit=adjustable+guide#p7344

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=126&hilit=louis+rocker
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and you may need too use the correct adjustable guide plates when you find the push-rod alignment is in need of minor tweaking to get the clearance and geometry correct

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using a louis tool, this tool is a GUIDE /tool for use with a high quality DRILL,its made of HARDENED STEEL that FORCES the DRILL BIT to drill thru the head to correctly lengthen the push-rod slot for increased clearance, they usually come WITH INSTRUCTIONS AND THE NECESSARY DRILL
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: cam wear,articles you need to read

Postby grumpyvette » April 25th, 2009, 9:43 pm

if you have a cam lobe or lifter fail, in about 99% of the cases its not a (BAD CAM) its a clearance or lubrication or valve train geometry issue, you need to correct or its almost sure to be repeated.
if you have not replaced the cam bearings and other bearings and cleaned the passages in the block after a cam fails chances are very good it will continue to happen, all that metalic dust from the cam lobes and lifters did not and never does get 100% trapped by the oil filter, and it only takes a bit circulating with theoil flow to start screwing up the new lifters and cam lobes.
Starting with a clean block,getting the clearances correct, and adding a couple magnets and a baffled oil pan with 7-8 qts capacity will be a good start, making 100% sure the valve train clearances and geometry and spring load rates are correct goes a long way toward preventing future problems......just slapping a new cam and lifters into the block after a cam failure has a low chance of having good long term durability.
use of quality oil filters , high capacity oil pans and ADDING magnets , and use of a good MOLY assembly lube tend to limit the chances of crud getting into the contact points between the lifter and cam lobe but checking all the clearances, geometry and spring load rates will prevent many failures.
BTW having exceeded the design limits of the valve train (GETTING INTO VALVE FLOAT) tends to damage cams and lifters also

worth reading thru

http://www.iskycams.com/camwalk.php

http://www.iskycams.com/degreeing.php


high spring loads don,t play well with roller cams over long term use, heres a very clear example of why you should only use Billet cam cores with roller cams having over about 320 lbs of spring pressure and why you MUST verify valve train geometry and clearances.


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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: cam wear,articles you need to read

Postby grumpyvette » August 3rd, 2009, 7:48 am

If you think you have a worn cam lobe, it will not open the valve completely, while a stuck or burnt valve won,t close completely, remove the compression tester and [color:red]squirt some oil into the cylinder and retest, if it bumps the readings up significantly its not likely to be a result from a worn cam lobe, but it might be from bad rings or a burnt or non-seating valve[/color],
your best course is to pull the valve covers and carefully watch the rockers,and measure the lift at the retainer, with a dial indicator and a magnetic base while you slowly turn the engine by hand if you find a suspect worn cam lobe,when cam lobes wear they usually eat lifters and cause other damage thats measurable at the rocker/retainer

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... umber=5645
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http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... number=623
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viewtopic.php?f=62&t=881&hilit=leakdown%E2%80%A6

If you find a flat tappet lifter that's not pumping oil, you'll need to inspect closer,and try adjusting the preload or lash carefully,flat tappet lifters need to spin freely in their bores to prevent wear,if the cams undamaged (UNLIKELY) yes you can just drop a well lubed (use molly assembly lube)new lifter onto the lobe and adjust the valve preload/ or lash clearance and your good to go, but carefully inspect the cam lobe thru the lifter bore once its out and any resistance to the lifter sliding up out of the bore usually indicates BOTH the lifter base and cam lobe are damaged and you need a new cam/lifter set, then place a high pressure air hose on the cylinder after you bring the cylinder up to TDC on the COMPRESSION STROKE, and listen for air leaking out of the exhaust or intake indicating a burnt or bent valve

I know some of you gentlemen would rather dig your own eyes out of your face with a rusty fork than read links, sub-links and posted info, but amazingly there useful info , in them, like tools that let you detect cam wear early, when to swap filters
what lubes to use,how to adjust and clearance valve trains, use of magnets to trap metallic crud and limit damage, which filters to use, etc.

the total amount of assembly lube you put on the cam and rotating assembly rarely can exceed 4 OZ and that EASILY fits into an oil filter, so if your getting more crud than the first oil filter traps in the first 30 minutes during the engine brake-in process, logic says its COMING from someplace and a quick look at the filter internals with the tool linked above and the magnets you should have installed should give you a good idea as to the source

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D900510&N=700+115&autoview=sku
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http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=799&p=1161#p1161

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=939&p=1582&hilit=+filter+tool#p1582

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=282


http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=break%20in%20ratio%20rockers&dds=1


there ARE reduced ratio roller rockers designed to significantly lower the lifter to lobe pressures during the cam break-in process, and its a whole lot easier to swap rockers during the break-in process than swap to lower pressure springs or remove inner springs from dual spring valve trains during the break in process
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: cam wear,articles you need to read

Postby grumpyvette » November 21st, 2011, 10:05 am

JUST SOME VISUAL REMINDERS OF WHAT FAILING TO CHECK CLEARANCES, high spring load rates, lack of lubrication, cheap parts, and excessive rpms RESULTS IN

GET THE CLEARANCES or VALVE TRAIN GEOMETRY WRONG OR OVER REV THE ENGINE, OR FAIL TO PROVIDE CONSTANT LUBRICATION, AND BAD THINGS CAN OCCUR, as can ASSUMING THE CLEARANCES ARE CORRECT IF YOU DON,T CHECK
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: cam wear,articles you need to read

Postby grumpyvette » March 30th, 2012, 8:54 am

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billet cams can and do have steel distributor gears that are not compatible with stock cast iron or melonized stock distributor gears, so anytime you change cams get and correctly install the matching distributor gear
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keep in mind theres a VAST difference in the QUALITY of bronze distributor gears and alloys vary wildly so its best to both use the cam manufacturers input during selecting components and not to assume all bronze gears are interchangeable
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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