Special Lifter for Checking Cam Timing



Special Lifter for Checking Cam Timing

Postby Indycars » October 23rd, 2010, 12:01 pm

Do manufactures sell a solid lifter with the same dimensions to replace the hydraulic lifter during cam timing checks? It would need to be the same length so you could also check rocker arm geometry and measure for pushrod length.

Is something like this sold to match each manufactures hydraulic lifter model???
Rick
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Re: Special Lifter for Checking Cam Timing

Postby grumpyvette » October 23rd, 2010, 12:35 pm

Ive never heard or seen that but it would hardly be difficult to buy an extra flat tappet solid lifter to use as the designs are all close enough to work.
many guys in days past used a 1/4" fender washer they set temporarily into the top of hydraulic lifters on top of the retaining snap ring to center the push-rod and a dial indicator on the tip of a push-rod to degree in cams.
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but Ive had one of these tools in my cam degree kit for years and it works rather well

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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-6 ... toview=sku

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these threads and the sub linked info should help

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=90

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=974&p=1699&hilit=+degree+wheel#p1699
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Special Lifter for Checking Cam Timing

Postby Indycars » October 23rd, 2010, 1:45 pm

So one plunger is to simulate the flat and the other to simulate a roller lifter. Wouldn't they have to be the same diameter or radius to provide the same cam timing numbers as the lifter that will be there when the engine is running???

This still would not help with the rocker arm geometry checks with an adjustable push rod. Wouldn't you still need a lifter with the same length, but in a solid to complete these checks???

This is assuming that the final camshaft will be a hydraulic.
Dial_Indicator02.jpg
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Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: Special Lifter for Checking Cam Timing

Postby grumpyvette » October 23rd, 2010, 3:37 pm

Indycars wrote:So one plunger is to simulate the flat and the other to simulate a roller lifter. Wouldn't they have to be the same diameter or radius to provide the same cam timing numbers as the lifter that will be there when the engine is running???

This still would not help with the rocker arm geometry checks with an adjustable push rod. Wouldn't you still need a lifter with the same length, but in a solid to complete these checks???

This is assuming that the final camshaft will be a hydraulic.

Image
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you measure cam lobe lift with a dial indicator & lifter bore adapter tool for the dial indicator , your measuring lift in thousandths of an inch per degrees of rotation, and theres little or no resistance in the dial indicator plunger should you choose to use a hydraulic lift or a solid lifter, its height is almost a non-issue during the checking process.
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and a degree wheel
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valve lift is a different deal, as is measuring the valve train geometry
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where your main concern is making sure the valve train geometry and stress loads on the valve,in its valve guide and thru the rockers arc, and measuring rocker tip alignment with the valve tip, on its stud are more or less centered and equally distributed,and minimized to reduce friction,wear and reduce heat and lubrication issues
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RELATED THREADS
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=3367&p=8900&hilit=rocker+fulcrum#p8900

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181&p=7156&hilit=rocker+fulcrum#p7156

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=553&p=884&hilit=rocker+fulcrum#p884

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=698&p=992&hilit=+pushrod+length#p992
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Special Lifter for Checking Cam Timing

Postby Indycars » October 24th, 2010, 12:28 pm

Ive never heard or seen that but it would hardly be difficult to buy an extra flat tappet solid lifter to use as the designs are all close enough to work. Many guys in days past used a 1/4" fender washer they set temporarily into the top of hydraulic lifters on top of the retaining snap ring to center the push-rod and a dial indicator on the tip of a push-rod to degree in cams.

I'll a little confused, I've read many times that a hydraulic lifer will compress enough to throw off your measurements. Is this only when using your regular valve springs??? The light checking springs and a hydraulic lifter work fine.....right???

Are you saying above that you can substitute a flat solid for a hydraulic roller during cam timing checks??? OR do I need a solid roller lifter for a hydraulic roller lifter during cam timing checks???
Another thing, the Dart SHP block requires a .300 taller lifter when using a cross link.
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: Special Lifter for Checking Cam Timing

Postby grumpyvette » October 24th, 2010, 3:12 pm

If you use the low tension checking springs,
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and a solid lifter or substitute the lifter adapter tool and dial indicator,
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or place a washer that rests on the hydraulic lifters retaining ring , you don,t need to worry, as the hydraulic lifter seats not involved in the measurements
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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