GrumpysPerformance.com • View topic - degree it in correctly and get it to last,cam install info,

grumpyvette · **Posted:** Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:04 pm

IM frequently asked (why bother degreeing in a cam, the timing set comes with index marks to install it?)
it basically comes down to, a question of do you accept a random install where the timing can be almost any place randomly or do you insist on maximizing the engines potential and know exactly how and why things work.
ITS also a great way to catch mistakes before you get to the point where you try to start the engine with the cam indexed incorrectly, if you used the wrong index marks on the timing set..
WELL,theres manufacturing tolerances in all machined components , in most case the tolerances are rather random to some degree and tend to cancel out the differences between the components to some degree, and the AVERAGE result is that most of the time if your, cams a few degrees off, the ideal location most people will never know it and that's fine, but occasionally the tolerances stack up to cause a problem, or clearance issues.
you can easily find a few degrees of cam timing difference can cause or cure detonation problems or (PINGING) under loads, and in a few cases piston to valve clearance is critical, once you get into building performance engines you'll also find that the intake and exhaust are ideally tuned for a set power band and having the cam a few degrees off from the ideal will cost you some power.
you can install most cams with the common (DOT-TO-DOT) timing set marks if you use quality components like CLOYES timing sets and name brand cams but even then theres variations that youll see once you degree in the cam rather than assume its correctly indexed
and using the dot-to-dot route youll be within about 2-3 degrees in most cases, which is close enough to get the car to run decent, but a 4 degree change results in about a 200rpm change in the cars power band RPM range, the tolerances can result in a 3-7 degree off set with the cheap import timing sets and cheaper mass produced cams, in most cases you'll never notice, but if the cars set up to run with close tolerances, high compression and ideal quench ETC. that could easily result in 10-20hp, IVE seen some cases where the difference was quite noticeable, in the way the car ran, and a few cases where cheap import timing sets were WAY OFF and would have cost you a good deal of hp/tq at least and probably caused clearance issues, or over heating or a noticeable power loss if installed without checking.
theres also more to it than just INDEXING the cam, you need to set up the valve train geometry and check spring rates and clearances carefully, and indexing the cam timing in the engine in relation to the piston location, during its rotation can be a valuable tuning aid , as you can easily degree in a cam so its 4-6 degrees advanced or retarded from the split overlap or strait up location, easily tuning the power band up to about 200-250 rpm either direction in the rpm band, changing the opening and closing points in the cam timing, effects the DCR and the power band, but its also useful in getting the intake and exhaust tuned but past those limits swapping to a different cam is almost always the better choice

READING THRU the linked info below will help,a great deal, and yes IM well aware theres a ton of info posted in the links, reading and understanding that info will be to your benefit, well beyond the time it takes to read thru it

http://www.tavia.com/free_degree_wheel.html

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/eng ... index.html

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

http://www.romac.com.au/Std_&_Offset_Crank_Info.pdf

read thru the links and info on these old threads

http://www.iskycams.com/pdfcatalog/2004-05/page195.pdf

http://www.pbm-erson.com/uploads/cat%5B ... CEDURE.pdf

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=279&p=1640#p1640

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/116_0701_ ... index.html

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=966&p=1682&hilit=+dead#p1682

http://www.thedirtforum.com/chevyvalves.htm

http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/Overlap.html

http://www.2quicknovas.com/happyvalves.html

http://www.jimcookperformance.com/TechNotes/TN7ValvLash.html

http://www.centuryperformance.com/valveadjustment.asp

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/uhs89720.htm

http://www.boostandfuel.com/support/setting_valves.htm

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/87998/index2.html

http://www.xtrememotorworks.com/cam_basics.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiacdude428/valveadj.html

http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_inf ... 0Paper.pdf

btw on roller cams, roller rockers, and roller lifters and timing chains this stuff works ok as a lube

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-M-10012

http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showfla...rue#Post1178811

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browsePa ... er=11991-1
this may help

if you've got an older GM muscle car with timing problems this thread below may explain it
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=540&p=677&hilit=nylon#p677
DOT-TO-DOT

DOING IT CORRECTLY

what the stock OEM roller lifter valve train looks like

grumpyvette · **Posted:** Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:34 pm

read thru this
http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... r_oil.html
preventing cam & lifter break-in failures

OPTIONS

it should be rather obvious that theres options, cam failures are usually the result of incorrect CLEARANCES or too much SPRING PRESSURE or LACK of ADEQUATE LUBRICATION,USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE, and decent quality oil, adding MAGNETS to trap metallic CRUD HELPS

READ
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=faq&id=1

(1) get a decent ROLLER CAM, add a high voluum oil pump, baffled 8 qt oil pan, with a windage screen and check your clearances and avoid the problem,USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE,and decent quality oil,adding MAGNETS to trap metalic CRUD HELPS

(2) use a SOLID lifter flat tappet cam with lifters with the lube feed holes,add a high voluum oil pump, baffled 8 qt oil pan, with a windage screen and check your clearances and avoid the problem,USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE, and decent quality oil,adding MAGNETS to trap metalic CRUD HELPS

http://www.competitionproducts.com/prod ... r=651080DL

(3) mod the lifter bores for more oil flow,add a high voluum oil pump, baffled 8 qt oil pan, with a windage screen and check your clearances and avoid the problem,USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE,and decent quality oil,adding MAGNETS to trap metalic CRUD HELPS

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.c ... gory_Code=

(4)USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE

http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=15,
add a high voluum oil pump, baffled 8 qt oil pan, with a windage screen and check your clearances and avoid the problem,and decent quality oil,adding MAGNETS to trap metalic CRUD HELPS

(5) thinking things thru and verifying clearances and spring pressures, and having a well thought thru lube system will significantly lower your chances of having problems,USE DECENT MOLY CAM LUBE,and decent quality oil,adding MAGNETS to trap metalic CRUD HELPS
.......I have not seen a cam fail in years UNLESS the guy installing it failed to follow those tips

anyone see a PATTERN?

you might want to read thru this AGAIN

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=article&id=2]http://www.cranecams.com/?show=article&id=2

FROM MORTEC
If you are building a SMALL or BIG block Chevy with a flat tappet cam, (solid or hydraulic lifters) be careful during the initial engine break in. It is very easy to lose a cam lobe and lifter during initial break in. This is especially true with a higher than stock lift cam and higher pressure valve springs. The increased push rod angles found on the BBC and poor preparation can make cam lobe failure after initial fire-up a distinct possibility. You can help prevent this cam lobe failure by making sure the engine is pre-lubed prior to initial fire up. Use a good high pressure lube on the cam lobes and lifter bottoms during assembly. If possible use a lighter pressure stock valve spring (or if using a valve spring with multiple springs, take out some of the inner springs) to initial run the engine. Then switch to the heavier pressure springs after break in. When the engine is first fired up, keep the engine rpms at 2,500 or above, don't let the engine idle for 20 minutes or longer. This keeps lots of oil splashing up on the cam lobes. Make sure the engine can be run for this time period by having enough fuel available, ignition timing set correctly, coolant available for the motor, valve lash set correctly, etc. The idea is not to crank the motor over excessively before it starts up for the first time. If your BBC flat tappet cam survives this initial break in period, it will be good to go for many miles. After the initial engine breakin, drain the oil and change the oil filter. Roller cams generally do not suffer these types of cam lobe failures during initial engine fireup.
if youve adjusted the valves correctly the lifter spins at all rpm levels,but that does NOT mean it wears EVENLY at all rpm levels due to several factors if you [color="orange"] look closely AT FLAT TAPPET CAMS [/color]youll see that the center of the cam lobe is NOT centered under the lifter and that the lifter surface is slightly angled , BOTH these factors force the lifter to spin in its bore as the lobe passes under the lifter slightly off center.

SOME of the reasons the higher rpm during the break in phase is important is that

(1) the faster RPMs the better chances the lobe passes under the lifter floated on an oil film and the less time the oil film has to squeeze out between them

(2) the higher the RPM the greater the oil volume and pressure the engine pumps and the more oil flow is available at the lobes

(3)the higher the rpm level the more oil is thrown from the rods onto the cam lobes

(4)the higher the rpm the greater the lifters weight and inertia tends to compensate for the springs pressure and lower the net pressure as the lifter passes over the cam lobes nose

(5) at higher rpm speed the better chance a small wedge of oil is trapped between the lifter base and lobe from the oil thrown from the lobes surface by centrifical force

(6) two differant metal surfaces scraping past each other at low speeds may tend to wear and GALL as the oil is sqeezed out but two differant hardness steel surfaces that impact each other at higher speeds covered with oil tend to work harden as they mate and will tend to be seperated by that oil

(7)as the lifter spins in its bore the contact point between the lobe and lifter base constantly changes and rotates with the lobe contact point not resisting its passage and the higher the rpms the faster the lifter rotates and the less time the lobe spends at any one point

BTW ADD E.O.S. to the oil and MOLY break-in lube to the cam
before starting the engine and prefill the filter and pre-prime the oil system before starting the engine.
I normally pour it in just before starting the engines cam break in,procedure. because I want to make sure that nothing in the oil/E.O.S. mix can settle out from sitting over a long period of time. now if your running a flat tappet cam you should have also used a moly cam lube on the lobes and be using a mineral base oil for the break-in procedure, and youll need to do an oil and filter change after about the first 3-4 hours running time to remove that moly cam lube from the engine after its served its purpose of protecting the cams lobes and lifters at start up, aND AS THE LOBES/LIFTERS LAPPED IN. MOSTLY to prevent that moly grease and E.O.S from potentially partially clogging the filter after that mix cools down,but also because both those lubes might leave deposits in the combustion chamber ,over time that might aggravate detonation.
even G.M. suggests that E.O.S. is not a great long term oil supplement, and that its main function is to add extra oil film strength durring new engine break in.

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cf ... number=EOS

don,t forget a few magnets in the oil pan goes a long way towards trapping unwanted metalic dust formed from the cam and rings lapping in durring break-in that might otherwise get imbedded in your bearings or cause other problems
heres the magnets I use in every engine
add a few magnets to the oil pan and drain back area in your engine, the trap and hold metalic dust that comes from wear and increase engine life span by preventing that crap embedding in the bearings

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetai...d=D66SH&cat=13

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D66SH

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH

these are even more tolerant of temp swings and retain strength at even higher engine oil temps plus they are smaller and easier to use

these come in different designs but youll want ones matching your application
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-66789/
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part ... -Checkers/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-7901-1/

GET THE CLEARANCES WRONG OR OVER REV THE ENGINE AND BAD THINGS CAN OCCUR

when the push rod geometry is correct, this is what the rocker rub marks look like on the valve tip

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... index.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... index.html

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/eng ... index.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr_n0cL46NM

grumpyvette · **Posted:** Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:58 pm

a couple times Ive seen imported cam timing chain sets that were machined WAAAYY off from being correct, if you didn,t DEGREE IN your current CAM, and just used the index marks on the timing set, chances are good that your cams indexed incorrectly, as a first step Id strongly suggest verifying the cams degreeded in correctly
there is an EASY 6-8 degrees of potential movement in the indexed location of the cam in relation to the crank thru the use of either an off set crank keyway or woodrift key or drilling the cam sprocket hole for the index stud and use of offset bushings or both

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=90&p=114#p114

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-4760/

http://www.streetperformance.com/part/m ... -990g.html

http://www.andrewsproducts.com/Download ... _ezcam.pdf

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... rline.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... index.html

helicoil provided this picture

youll need a few basic tools and a good understanding of what your doing, but its certainly not all that difficult.
lobe lift is simply the distance the lifter moves from the cams base circle to its max lift on the cam lobes nose, valve lift has the rocker ratio added , example
if your cam lifts the lifter 0.345 inches in its bore, as the cam lobe rotates under its base, and if you've got a 1.6:1 ratio rocker, your valve at least in theory moves to open to a full 0.552 inches lift

I was asked where to get a CHEAP degree wheel

http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tuning_c ... ow_to.html

heres one you can print out and save for engine builds on the engine stand
(put curser on an click)

http://savetheledges.org/test/AVS/image ... eWheel.png

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... umber=5645

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

BTW thats one of the functions of using a degree wheel to degree in a cam,.... it allows you too verify all changes,and correct mistakes vs guessing..... but just for your info....

MRG-988G
Crankshaft Key Type: Short
Crankshaft Key Length (in): 0.750 in.
Crankshaft Key Offset: 4 degree
Crankshaft Key Material: Steel
Crankshaft Key Color: Copper
Quantity: Sold individually.

Crankshaft Key, Short, 4 Degree Offset, Chevy/Ford/Pontiac/Mopar, Each

BTW you CAN advance or retard the roller timing chain its done bye drilling out the cam index pin hole in the timing gear and installing an off set bushing

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/TimingTutorial/

LCA (LOBE CENTERLINE ANGLES) lobe center angles can be changed thru indexing the cam when degreeing it in, LSA( LOBE SEPERATION ANGLE) is ground into the cam during manufacture

you could buy these from summit racing or similar parts from jegs

this is 180 degrees out (the distributor rotor points at cylinder #6, so before you drop in the distributor rotate the crank 360 degrees bring both marks to the 12 o-clock location, then drop in the distributor pointing to cylinder #1, and adjust ignition timing from that point

http://www.summitracing.com/

http://www.jegs.com sells this KIT
Comp Cams #249-4796

http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp%20Cams/249/4796/10002/-1

and you can buy these

MOR-62191 $44 (wheel)

MOR-61755 $47 (SBC)
MOR-61756 $47.(BBC)crank sockets

SUM-900188 $17 (piston stop, head off)
SUM-900189 $6.95(piston stop, head on)

TFS-90000 $94.95 (degree kit)

youll also want two flat tappet solid lifters and two weak check springs

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

of course MEASURING HELPS VERIFY(m0ondoggy provided this excellent photo)

http://album.hybridz.org/data/500/Degree_Wheel.JPG

http://www.iskycams.com/camshaft.html

http://www.thedirtforum.com/degree.htm

http://www.ridgenet.net/~biesiade/camdegree.htm

http://www.hotrodder.com/kwkride/degree.html

http://www.cranecams.com/pdf/803.pdf

http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com ... shaft.html

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Instr ... es/145.pdf

grumpyvette · **Posted:** Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:23 pm

JUST TRYING TO FIND TDC??

you FIRST disconnect the battery and use a ratchet to spin the engine slowly by hand , useing the damper bolt and a 5/8 socket after removing the spark plugs, chalking the wheels and putting the cars trans in neutral

ways to turn over the engine WITHOUT the starter

theres large bolts for your ballancer

theres crank sockets

Crankshaft Socket Tool For turning AND MOUNTING Degree Wheels

CRANK NUTS

crank rotaters

flywheel turning tools

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/80743/10002/-1

finding TDC

youll need a piston stop and degree wheel to be exact
but thats not 100% required unless you want it to work correctly???

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CRN%2D99412%2D1&N=700+115&autoview=sku

read

http://www.2quicknovas.com/happyTDC.html

grumpyvette · **Posted:** Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:44 pm

Cam Break-in Procedure

• Have a high quality service manual available, such as the factory service manual, or the vehicle specific manuals published by Chiltons, Motors, or Haynes. You will need these for the basic information regarding engine disassemble and reassemble along with the torque settings for the various fasteners.

• Read and understand the manual completely, along with these instructions before you begin working. We highly recommend you also have the assistance of a knowledgeable friend to assist you, especially during the initial fire-up and break-in period.

In addition to the normal installation procedure, installing a performance camshaft requires you to check for several extra items to insure long life and optimum performance.

• New Lifters Are A Must- There is no such thing as a good used lifter! Any flat faced lifter establishes a wear pattern almost immediately with the cam lobe it is riding on and cannot be used on any other cam lobe, let alone a different cam. Should you have a need to disassemble the engine, make sure you keep the lifters in order so they go back on to the exact same lobes.

• Valve Spring Pressure and Travel- We highly recommend purchasing the matching valve springs recommended in our catalog. This insures you will have the proper pressures, both closed and open, and sufficient travel to get the maximum rpm, performance and life from your new cam.

• Piston to Valve Clearance- While many performance cams will work just fine with stock pistons, there are many factors that effect your engine and the clearance available. Things such as factory tolerances, normal machine work such as head and block surfacing, aftermarket components such as cylinder heads, higher ratio rocker arms, etc. all effect your engines ability to handle a performance camshaft.

• Valve Train Interference- In addition to valve spring travel and piston-to-valve clearance, a commonly overlooked area is that of retainer to seal clearance. The other common area of interference is rocker arm to stud clearance along with rocker arm travel. The best way to check these is by physically opening both a intake and an exhaust valve on each cylinder head to the gross lift of the cam plus and additional .030". It is easiest to do this by pressing down on the rocker arm with one of the many tools available. Do not simply rotate the engine to the maximum lift point for a given valve. This does not work when engines are hydraulic lifter equipped, or even allow any margin of safety when you are using a mechanical lifter cam.

• Valve Adjustment- The easiest way to insure proper adjustment is to adjust the rocker arms as you install them, one cylinder at a time. Adjust the intake valve as the exhaust valve is just starting to open and adjust the exhaust valve when the intake valve is almost closed. It is simplest to do this with the intake manifold off and watching the lifter’s movement.

• Hydraulic Lifter Valve Adjustment- All engines, regardless of manufacture, require correct valve adjustment. Some engines, such as Chevrolet V-8’s, are equipped with stud mounted rocker arms can easily be adjusted to compensate for changes incurred during engine assembly. Never just torque the rocker arm into place and assume that the lifter preload will automatically be correct. Various engine manufacturers use multiple length pushrods, shims, and spacers to compensate for changes in preload. Hydraulic lifters cannot compensate for all changes. Ideal lifter preload is .020" to .080". Do not attempt to fill the lifters full of oil prior to installation. They will fill automatically once started and manually filling them makes adjusting the preload a difficult task.

• Mechanical Lifter Valve Adjustment- Adjusting mechanical lifters should be done the same way as outlined above, one valve at a time. For an initial setting, we recommend .003" to .005" than listed on the cam’s specification card. Once broken in and with the engine fully warmed up, re set the rocker arms to the cam’s specification sheet.

• Installation Lubricants- All flat faced (non-roller) camshafts require the use of high pressure lubricant supplied with your Erson cam on the bottom of the lifters, the lobes of the cam and on the distributor drive gear. Do not use this lube on the tips of the pushrods, the sides of the lifters or on the rocker arms. Use a quality oil when installing roller tappets.

BEFORE YOU TURN THE KEY

• Fill All of the Engine’s Fluids- Using a minimum of a SAE API SD, SE or better fresh clean mineral based oil, fill the engine to the proper level. Do not use synthetic oil during break-in. Fill the coolant system and follow the instructions on purging air from the system. With carburetor equipped engines, fill the carburetor to insure fuel is available immediately. Make sure that the ignition timing is properly set to insure immediate starting, without excess cranking of the engine.

• Pre-Lube the Engine- Using a oil pump priming tool such as those available from Mallory, spin the engine’s oil pump until you see pressure on the gauge or have oil at the rocker arms. Do not attempt to prime the engine using the starter motor!

• Proper Ventilation- Make sure that you do not start the engine without good airflow. That means have the overhead garage door open and the exhaust vented to the outside. If you have any doubts about sufficient airflow to the engine, push the car out of the garage to make sure the radiator can draw in plenty of air. Having a fan to blow fresh air through the garage is a plus.

• Exhaust System- If at all possible, start the car with a muffled exhaust system hooked up and operational. It makes it much easier to hear what is going on.

• Resist the Urge- Take a minute before you try to start the engine for the first time and double check that you are ready to go. Don’t take any short cuts or leave parts such as fan shrouds, air cleaner, wire looms, etc. off. Clean up the are around and especially under your vehicle. Pick up your tools and wipe up the floor so you can easily spot even a minor leak.

• Be Prepared- Have extra coolant or a hose handy, clean rags, tools for tightening clamps, connections, etc. just in case. They need to be in place to make sure you have an uneventful break-in of the camshaft.

WHEN THE ENGINE STARTS

• Have a Helper- Now is the time for a helper. They can check the coolant level, check for oil and fluid leaks, and proper operation of underhood accessories. Air pockets in the coolant system are common so make sure the recovery bottle is checked and filled as necessary. You cannot count on the temperature gauge. Temperature gauges are only accurate if the sensor is submerged in coolant and will not give an accurate reading if in an air pocket.

• Do Not Idle the Engine- As soon as the engine starts, raise the rpm to 2,000 rpm. You should also constantly vary the RPM between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM for the first 20 minutes. This is the only way to insure proper lubrication during this critical period since the camshaft to lifter contact area relies almost exclusively on oil splash from the crank and connecting rods. Make sure that you run the engine for a full 20 minutes using this procedure. It will seem like forever, but it is one of the most important steps to insure long, dependable performance.

Once Break-in is Complete- Drain and replace the engine oil and filter with new, fresh oil and a new filter. Recheck for any fluid leaks and check all fluid levels. If you installed a mechanical lifter style camshaft, flat faced or roller style, the valve adjustment should be rechecked at this time with the engine fully warmed up. Hydraulic lifter equipped engines should not require any readjustment.

Proper maintenance is important for any vehicle. Frequent oil changes, with a new filter is one of the easiest ways to insure your vehicle will deliver the performance you want for many long happy miles.
WATCH THIS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23sYBHH9 ... re=channel

ID ADD, USE a GOOD MOLY BASE ASSEMBLY LUBE AND A HIGH ZINC CONTENT OIL AND SOME G.M. E.O.S. TO THE OIL

grumpyvette · **Posted:** Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:44 pm

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=article&id=2

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=faq&id=1

http://www.2quicknovas.com/happycams.html

http://www.iskycams.com/camshaft.php

http://www.reedcams.com/degreeing.htm

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80815

DROPPING THE DISTRIBUTOR BACK IN
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=54

grumpyvette · **Posted:** Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:13 am

Gear drive VS chain cam drives,

Id first point out that a CLOYES true roller chain cam drive will work just fine in most applications, but you need to check the slack every 20,000 miles or so under the conditions most guys put street engines, but I constantly hear guys repeating the MYTH that gear drives cause harmonic loads to be transfered to the cam, Ive tested, and checked extensively and the gear drives tend to maintain the correct timing longer and have no bad problems and certainly last far longer than the chain drives WHEN CORRECTLY INSTALLED AND INDEXED
IF you want to index the cam drive or a chain drive,theres a fast simple answer that takes a bit less effort and work.

http://www.romac.com.au/Std_&_Offset_Crank_Info.pdf

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

you simply drill out the hole in the CAM timing gear that the cam pin inserts thru, then following the instructions carefully you insert the OFFSET bushing anfd then the bolts that hold the cam to the timing gear, it indexes the cam the desired degrees advance or retarded , depending on the bushing used and the location of the thick section on the bushing, then you install the cam button and retainer plate locking it solidly together.
NATURALLY YOULL CHECK THE RESULTS ON THE DEGREE WHEEL

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

well, My opinion differs here!,
I tend to favor QUIET gear cam drives

in PERFORMANCE ENGINE BUILDS,over chain drives , because chain drives get slack and tend to allow the cam timing to vary with rapid engine load changes like durring shifts

except in cars with KNOCK sensors, where the slight gear whine might cause the knock sensor to randomly retard the ignition timing.
Ive used several different brands and find nothing wrong with a CORRECLY INSTALLED Pete Jackson dual idler gear drive, in fact I’ve used that (QUIET) Pete Jackson gear drive, in the 383 that’s been in my corvette for several years with zero problems
as with most parts, installation must be correct, clearances checked, ETC. or you’ll HAVE PROBLEMS!, READ/UNDERSTAND THE INSTRUCTIONS, and ASK, QUESTIONS and know the reasons and answers , before installing any part or you’ll probably run into problems, Id have changed several chain drives bye this time, but the same gear drive I installed over 8 years ago still works fine and maintains the correct clearances
but Ill also point out I run a high volume oil pump, a 10 baffled QT oil pan and have extra oil jets drilled (#60 drill bit)in the oil passage plugs behind the cam gear

http://www.engineersedge.com/drill_sizes.htm]http://www.engineersedge.com/drill_sizes.htm
the two outside plugs

Quote:

the idlers seem to sort of float front to back. I guess install the balancer without the timing cover and check?

that’s part of the install process place (with the gasket) using a large lump of modeling clay , and dial calipers

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PM ... NO=9937412]http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=2079569&PMT4NO=9937412

http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?lev ... ue&An=text]http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?leve...rue&An=text

Under the timing cover and test bolt it in place, remove the clay an carefully measure the clearances..
(BTW spray the inside cover and the block with WD 40 first it tends to prevent the clay from sticking)the axles on the idler gears should have about a .002-.010 clearance between the cover and the block, this keeps the gears running in the same basic track once the engines assembled, you don,t want the axles to bind/or be in constant contact, under tension with the cover, as that might tip/bind the gear, and a light coat of moly on the gears won’t hurt. This frequently requires a light touch of a file to shorten the axles a few thousands, but youll not know without TESTING for the correct clearances with the clay :grin:

youll also need the retaining plate, cam button and loc-tite

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku]http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MOR%2D60460&N=115&autoview=sku

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G ... mage=large

in the future use a inch lb tq wrench, and some loctite on the bolt threads and don,t over tighten the bolts, the tabs on the plate bend up to keep the bolt from backing out, the loctite also prevents that

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LCT-3 ... mage=large

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KTI-72120/

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... umber=2696

Cam sprocket bolts 18-20 ft.-lbs or 230 inch lbs.

lets drop to basics,
the crank socket has an index groove that matches a key in the crank snout, and you must use the matched set of timing gears (cam and crank) not for example use the new cam gear with the old crank gear for two main reasons, first the old gears have formed a wear pattern, that won,t exactly match the new chain and that tends to accelerate wear on the new chain slightly, and second , different manufacturers tend to mark and index the gears slightly differently, and while in theory both the pin in the cam gear and the woodrif key in the crank gear limit the chances of a mis-match theres occasionally a couple of degrees of difference in mis-matched sets
be aware that some crank gears have more than one index slot to index to the crank key and each slot is marked and you must use the correct matching marks indicating (ZERO) that match the crank slot marks

look closely SLOT A uses a different TDC mark (A) than slot (R), which has its own TDC mark(R)

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=901&p=1462&hilit=puller#p1462
most guys oil the crank snout and heat the crank gear slightly and tap it on with a large socket

but yes theres a tool
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-4789/

notice the (O) thats supposed to be indexed at 12 o,clock
and matched to a cam timing gear at 6 o,clock, which temporarily places the #6 cylinder at TDC, you then simply rotate the crank one complete turn, bring the cam timing gear to its 12 0,clock position,and the #1 cylinders at TDC and you can drop the intake on, and distributor in and adjust the valve lash clearance (solid lifters) or pre-load (hydraulic lifters, and set the ignition timing at about 8 degrees btdc as a starting location

you can use a dead blow hammer or the damper tool to install the gear

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=41800

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/OTC-6505/

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=90

grumpyvette · **Posted:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:10 am

keep in mind youll need to check the cam lobe to connecting rod clearances as they pass very close to each other on some cylinders at some points in thier rotation,finding out if youll need to grind clearances on the upper edge of some rod bolts needs to be verified, durring assembly,
the answer depends BOTH on the max lift, durration and LCA of the cam and the design of the connecting rods outer profile, IE wher it sticks out and how far it sticks out away from the crank journal. its the upper rod bolt area near the crank journal that tends to hit the cam lobes on sone cylinders, and you should verify about a .060 clearance between lobes and connecting rods durring the assembly process, AFTER degreeing in the cam, I usually use a large paper clip as a gauge, if it easily passes between the lobe and the rod bolt at thier closest point thier tangent rotational arcs youll be ok.once EITHER the duration exceeds about 225 @ .050 or the lift exceeds about .520 in a 383 SBC youll probably have clearance issues with stock connecting rods,and the cam lobes, aftermarket (H) or SOME (I) style stroker rods with 7/16" capscrew bolts are stronger and profiled to clear and use of both a small base billet roller cam and stroker profile rods will usually prevent that

GOSFAST posted this great photo to illustrate the differance between rod designs

it should be obvious that the connecting rod on the right has some extra clearance to the cams lobe rotation arc.

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/index.htm

rods designed like the 3 SERIES generally won,t work with stroker cranks while the 2 series usually will , yeah! you won,t be the first guy to install the cam, then just pull the spark plugs and spin the engine over by hand with a ratchet and then attempt to (FEEL) any interferance as it rotates.
In most cases if your useing stock type connecting rods with a cam having anything UNDER about a .500 lift and UNDER about 225 dur. @.050 lift is UNLIKELY to have problems, with the cam lobe to connecting rods,.and you could get by with a larger cam in some combos easily,
and that interferance might be coil bind, rocker slot to rocker stud, piston to valve,retainer to valve guide, cam to connecting rod,pushrod to guide plate, or a DOZEN other factors.

, but checking clearances carefully is ALWAYS the prefered route!

grumpyvette · **Posted:** Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:33 am

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

you use a CRANK SOCKET to index the crank so the lower crank gear is at 12 oclock and the cam gear is at 6 oclock, and don,t for get to spin the engine one full revolution so the cam and crank gear are at 12 oclock before dropping in the distributor so the rotar points at the #1 cylinder or it will be 180 degrees out.

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=902

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=90
its false economy to do things cheaply if its very likely to result in less than ideal performance or problems with relieability.
the cam and crank gear are a matched set, and reuse of the old crank gear is NOT advised!
theres several totally differant types of chains and the gears and clearances are NOT always ,interchangeable ,... use of the wrong gear CAN cause excessive wear.
CLOYES makes TRUE ROLLER SETS that last longer and stretch less than the cheap imported link belt chains, that sell for $20 in the auto parts stores, its not un-common for the cheap sets to have the index off several degrees, and if you don,t degree in the cam its not un-common to have an engine run at less than its potential with the cam timing being off several degrees
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CLO%2D9%2D3100&autoview=sku

btw

its a good idea to mix some crane cams (MOLY) assembly lube and some marvel mystery oil in a tinfoil pan and soak the timing set in the mix for a few minutes before installing them, coating the surfaces tends to lower the tendency to wear as the moly forms a chemical layer that penetrates into the metals surface and protects it.

grumpyvette · **Posted:** Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:01 pm

IF your just installing the cam, without degreeing it in at this point, Im forced too think by that ,your NOT taking the effort to use a degree wheel and dial indicator and degree in your cam??

if SO, keep in mind
the crank slot the keyway seats in
the crank gear
the cam it self
the cam gear
ALL can be easily machined off a degree or so from ideal, and that can and MOST LIKELY WILL cause the cam to be a bit off the intended location if its installed with you relieing solely on the manufacturers index marks alone.

OK,maybe this helps

the sprockets are marked differantly,
the typical DOT -TO -DOT uses a 0 on both the keyway and the cam sprocket outer dia.

The Cloyes® Patented 3-Keyway crank sprocket allows adjustment of the crankshaft timing by ±4°.

Remember: The camshaft angle is half of the crankshaft angle, therefore the camshaft will correspondingly advance or retard by ±2°.

By changing the cam timing, enhancements to the camshaft characteristics can be achieved. For example, retarding the cam timing will increase high RPM horsepower, and advancing the cam timing will increase low-end torque.

Applications
Indicates Standard Camshaft Timing
A TRIANGLE SYMBOL
or the letter A Advances The Camshaft Timing 4 Degrees
a RECTANGLE SYMBOLor the letter R Retards The Camshaft Timing 4 Degrees
BUT THEY MUST BE INSTALLED WITH THE MATCHED KEYWAY
Example: To advance the camshaft 4 degrees, you install the crankshaft
sprocket using the keyway marked or A. Then you align the or A mark on
the outer edge of the sprocket with the dot marked on the camshaft sprocket,
mark to mark.You must use the corresponding marks on the crankshaft
sprocket for proper installation.
1. Keyway marked with l or 0 (zero) is for standard
“straight-up” timing.
2. Keyway marked with S or A is to advance cam timing 4°.
3. Keyway marked with N or R is to retard cam timing 4°.

the best route to take is to first install the cam with the typical DOT -TO -DOT that uses a 0 on both the keyway and the cam sprocket outer dia.
now remove the crank and cam sprocket set and re-install them with the correct keyway and cam marks youll see the cam, must advance or retard just a few degrees, the crank won,t be moved to re-align properly, if you need to make other than minimal fine changes in the cam rotation theres something not correct.

watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdIGZ-tVuZA

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... 0/7880.pdf

look thru and read the links, examine the pictures CAREFULLY

http://www.performancedepot.com/ART/pro ... 0_Inst.pdf

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... index.html

"GRUMPYVETTE, youve said you generally retard cams 4 degrees, or install them strait up, vs advanced ,if that's the case, would you expain why?"

(1) BECAUSE it tends to lower the tendency toward detonation on pump gas if you get a bad batch, as it bleeds off just a bit more low rpm cylinder pressure.and I generally try to maximize the useful compression ratio, in the cams effective rpm band and don,t try to over cam engines, if you add 4 degrees of retard to your calcs and see what I mean, then run it both ways on DD 2000 and see the differance it makes
(2) it moves the whole torque curve about 200rpm higher.
(3)many cams have an extra 4 degrees advance built into them at the (DOT-TO_DOT) install position, thats there to boost low rpm tq at the expence of the upper mid range and peak hp, something than many cam companies do to compensate a bit for the vast majority of guys who consistantly select cams a bit larger in durration than IDEAL for the application, or tend to ignore the fact that a cars generally used by most customers far more often on the low and mid rpm band than they will admit..
(4) in this case youll need the upper rpm tq far more than the off idle tq.