connecting rod strength h vs I beam



Re: connecting rod strength h vs I beam

Postby philly » March 18th, 2014, 10:22 am

87vette81big wrote:Build ypur LSX Engine as You see fit Phil.
You can't make the Rod so long that it interferes with the Oil & Upper ring packages & expect long term durabilty .
Boost makes up for many handicaps.
Most of my knowledge & experience is with Normally aspirated power.
A kicker power adder.
Your the Turbo Guy Phil.
Teach Me.



like i said above, i think smokey yunick's 2 to 1 rod stroke ratio is impossible to achieve without destroking and or using tall deck blocks UNLES YOU WANT TO FUSS WITH RING PACKAGING which i dont

but i cannot see a viable reason to run a 5.7" rod over a 6.0" rod. explain to me why for the same money anyone would choose it?

theres some theory floating around that a heavier piston is not as detrimental to rods and bearings in a boosted application because of whats going on above the piston as far as pressures are concerned at TDC where in a naturally aspirated context we see a heavy piston with a vacuum above it at tdc as being an excessive load on the rod as it tries to stop the piston and change directions.

heres something else to consider... when you have a piston exactly tdc, and the piston, rod, and journal are all in a line, its very difficult to put force on the face of the piston and push it down. so why is it that so many people want their maximum cylinder pressure right at TDC where its going to meet the most resistance? why dont we build more combinations with max cyl pressures 15-30* ATDC when that energy is meeting less resistance because of the geometry of the piston, rod, journal relationship? wouldnt we be using that power more efficiently?
-phil

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Re: connecting rod strength h vs I beam

Postby grumpyvette » March 18th, 2014, 11:07 am

philly wrote:"why dont we build more combinations with max cyl pressures 15-30* ATDC when that energy is meeting less resistance because of the geometry of the piston, rod, journal relationship? wouldnt we be using that power more efficiently?"


EVER WONDER HOW FUNNY CARS MAKE SO MUCH POWER? NITRO BURNS FAR LONGER AFTER THE PISTON PASSES TDC and PRODUCES HIGHER CYLINDER PRESSURES THAN GAS, most of the cylinder pressure in a normal gas engine has dropped to well below 50% of peak by 30 degrees past TDC, nitro burns far longer still producing cylinder pressure
Image
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Re: connecting rod strength h vs I beam

Postby 87vette81big » March 18th, 2014, 11:14 am

I was told by my late Bud B that Chevy, Pontia, & Olds had the most Brilliant Engineers in GM.
Each had thier own headquarters location back in the day.
Super Intelligent individuals like Grumpy.
Chevy BB Were made at St Catherines in New York.
Next to Niagra Falls.
Back in the day GM picked the best mechanics they had working in dealerships nationwide.
They got to tour all the different engine plants.
Spent time with the Engineers & schooled.
Bill was one of the lucky few mechanics.
He especially liked BBC, HEMI & PONCHOS LIKE GRUMPY.
He watched The Engineers flow testing prototype BBC heads.
To his amazement they were not porting bigger .
But closing ports ever so gradual with modeling clay.
Chambers too. Make a change. Test.
Heads casted.
Dyni engine room tested.
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Re: connecting rod strength h vs I beam

Postby 87vette81big » March 18th, 2014, 12:26 pm

Lunchtime Grumpy.
Had a chance to look at your Nitro/ Gasoline Combustion Pressure curve Graphs.
I can see why Nitro Funny cars & Dragsters use 50-80 w straigjt viscosity crankcase oil.
And near pure Lead bearing inserts alloyed with Indium.
Read in the past the very best 4340 Billet cranks flex .010" wild like a snake in a running 4,000-8,000HP Nitromethane Racer.
$5 K Bryant Cranks.
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Re: connecting rod strength h vs I beam

Postby Indycars » March 18th, 2014, 12:46 pm


Firing such that maximum cylinder pressure happens at TDC will be less than
optimum like Phil mentioned. There is no lever arm for the pressure/force
pushing on the piston to act thru. Seems the goal is to maximized the area
under the curve for Pressure/Effective Lever Length. Since the pressure is
dropping rapidly as the piston travel down the cylinder, then you cannot just
wait under the lever arm is at it's maximum.

It's the red line in the drawing below that is creating torque to turn the crankshaft.

OptimizeIgnitionTiming.jpg


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Re: connecting rod strength h vs I beam

Postby 87vette81big » March 18th, 2014, 2:40 pm

Smokey Yunick Dabbled in Indy Car Racing for a few years like Mickey Thompson.
Was the In Thing to do in 1960's If an established Racer or engine builder.
To win Indy means your #1.
Horsepower & Endurance racing.
Men of Super Hero Status.
Smokey used a 2.800" stroke of some sort.
He was also very Savy.
Sneaky. Find a way to bend the rules.
Its not cheating till you get caught was his Motto.
His after burner headers were neat.
Welded tin covers to hide what he did.
Drilled holes in primary tubes.

303 Poncho has 2.884" stroke I recall today.
10.230" deck. Regular production block.
Low deck was .400-.500 less.
Few remain to check.
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Re: connecting rod strength h vs I beam

Postby philly » March 19th, 2014, 6:28 pm

thanks for clearing that up grumpy, that makes alot of sense... do you think e85 has some sort of properties that make it burn longer than gasoline? obviously not like nitro but maybe more than regular gasoline?
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ОТ 6300 РУБЛЕЙ В СУТКИ НА АВТОПОСТИНГЕ ВИДЕО ИННОВАЦИОННАЯ С

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ОТ 6300 РУБЛЕЙ В СУТКИ НА АВТОПОСТИНГЕ ВИДЕО ИННОВАЦИОННАЯ С

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ОТ 6300 РУБЛЕЙ В СУТКИ НА АВТОПОСТИНГЕ ВИДЕО ИННОВАЦИОННАЯ С

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