Piston Coating & Deburring



Piston Coating & Deburring

Postby Indycars » January 29th, 2011, 2:53 pm

I wanted to confirm that the only place I should be concerned about the coating on these Mahle pistons are the dark gray areas on the piston skirts shown below by the red oval.
DSC00359Resized_Comments.jpg

I am going polish the tops and break the sharp edges indicated by the red arrow, as long as this does NOT have a coating.
DSC00362Resized_Comments.jpg
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Re: Piston Coating & Deburring

Postby grumpyvette » January 30th, 2011, 9:28 am

most shops that, customize pistons round off any sharp edges, cut the piston valve clearance, notches and polish the pistons to reduce heat absorption and reduce detonation, and some coat the pistons coat the top surface with a thermal barrier coating, some match it with a combustion chamber thermal barrier coating , the coating your showing is designed to hold oil and reduce friction

Thermal Barriers - Here, the obvious areas are the combustion space and exhaust gas path, and especially with turbos or nitrous. As mentioned earlier, my first and disappointing experience coating piston crowns showed power gains but damaged parts. Fortunately, with today's coatings technology, such problems are passe. So as you might expect, coating piston tops (and bottoms), combustion chambers (in certain applications), the faces of intake and exhaust valves, and complete header systems with these type of heat-retention coatings can be of particular benefit. Keep in mind that power equates with heat in a controlled environment. Therefore, combustion heat lost to cooling systems, combustion surfaces (all of them), and along the exhaust path can combine to reduce net power. Your best bet is to either consult with your choice of parts manufacturer already providing coated parts, or identify a good supplier of coatings materials if you elect to do the job yourself. And don't rule out the latter. Given the current state of some "kits" that are user-friendly to the engine builder, you can also get good results by these methods.
Race Engine Coatings
This camshaft has a new pro...

read full caption
Race Engine Coatings
This camshaft has a new pro plasma nitriding process that enhances the performance all around. Courtesy of Comp Cams

Thermal Dispersants - Wherever you find that heat buildup is a concern, these are the materials to consider. Such components as brake parts, oil pans, radiators and intake manifolds all can fall into the need for rapid heat transfer or control. In areas where continual and/or repeated temperature spikes occur and you need to move heat more quickly away from these locations, consider these coatings to be of value.

Dry Film Lubricants - Remember, simply stated, friction horsepower is the arithmetic difference between indicated horsepower and brake horsepower. Therefore, the lower the friction horsepower, the higher the brake horsepower. So, by the use of dry film lubricants in areas that will net a reduction in friction horsepower, you can expect net power gained at the flywheel. Also expect a reduction in both surface and component operating temperatures. Applicable parts include valve springs, engine bearings, camshafts, and piston skirts and pins. Once again, you have the options of either selecting precoated parts or consulting with one of the coatings providers. Should you decide on the first option, it's wise to spend time talking with the manufacturer about the material (and its benefits) on any precoated component.

you might want to read thru these threads and their sub links

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2610&p=6737&hilit=coating+thermal#p6737

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=501&p=11829&hilit=clay+clearance#p11829

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4472&p=11747&hilit=domes#p11747

Image

THERMAL BARRIER DESIGNED TO REDUCE HEAT TRANSFER< AND INCREASE POWER


Image
Image
oil shedding coating on the under surface of the piston designed to speed heat transfer and reduce oil retention to reduce weight

Image
outer skirt coating designed to increase wear resistance and retain oil film

Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Piston Coating & Deburring

Postby Indycars » January 30th, 2011, 12:02 pm

That's interesting, I didn't know that there were ways of doing HP coatings yourself.

I did want to confirm, if you can tell from the photos, that there is NOT a coating on pistons other than the skirts. Just want to make sure before I start breaking the sharp edges.
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: Piston Coating & Deburring

Postby grumpyvette » January 30th, 2011, 12:14 pm

I can,t tell from the pictures you posted but in most cases theres no coating unless you specifically ordered it on,the piston,in most cases, if there is a thermal barrier, its a coating that resembles powder coating and its slightly textured, and not the same smooth aluminum,appearance, if there is a coating

Id strongly suspect your dealing with a aluminum surface that can be smoothed and polished to give you a good heat reflective Finnish , if you care to take the time and effort required a bit of combustion chamber polishing and smoothing to match helps also

related threads

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=1519&p=3482&hilit=+powder+coating#p3482

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=2630&p=6788&hilit=+shrouding+valve#p6788

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=3143&p=8387&hilit=+polish+chamber#p8387
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Piston Coating & Deburring

Postby Indycars » January 30th, 2011, 12:38 pm

I didn't think they had a coating other than the skirts, but I'm trying NOT to make a $500 mistake. Therefore I was looking for a second opinion.

Thanks Again!
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: Piston Coating & Deburring

Postby grumpyvette » January 30th, 2011, 12:42 pm

Indycars wrote:I didn't think they had a coating other than the skirts, but I'm trying NOT to make a $500 mistake. Therefore I was looking for a second opinion.

Thanks Again!


from what IM seeing your doing a fine job!


related info

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4630

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1795

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4516&p=16279&hilit=4032#p16279

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=247

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=852

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=5454

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=509

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2837

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3897

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=110
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: Piston Coating & Deburring

Postby Indycars » September 10th, 2011, 2:03 pm


While looking for specs on Ring Side Clearance I came across this info from Mahle about my pistons.


http://www.us.mahle.com/MAHLE_North_Ame ... ak-Pistons
Power Pak Pistons

The MAHLE Motorsports Power Pak kit is our high volume shelf stock program developed for high performance enthusiasts and sportsman class racers. The Power Pak pistons are predominately made from 4032 aluminum alloy to allow for tighter cylinder to wall clearances, and improved temperature stability. Some applications require 2618 alloy including the Power Pak Plus category. Each kit is complete with a set of high performance rings, containing a low drag 1.5mm, 1.5mm, 3.0mm set or 1/16’, 1/16”, 3/16” high performance Ring Pak standard with big block kits.

All of our applications can be found in our catalog.


Power Pak feature includes:

Forged piston for performance applications
Fully-machined crown
Grafal anti-Friction coating on skirts*
Phosphate-coated to reduce micro-welding and pin galling**
Pin bores finished on CNC boring equipment
Deburred
High strength, light weight steel pins
Race proven round wire locks
Low drag ring pak
Light weight slipper kirt forgings



* MAHLE’s GRAFAL® skirt coating reduces drag, scuffing, friction and cylinder bore wear; reduces piston noise.

** Phosphate coating provides the grey appearance to the MAHLE piston. This dry lubricant coating (not to be confused with a thermal film coating) provides a lubricant film in the pin bores and ring grooves until the oiling system of the engine reaches operating pressure; particularly useful during the initial start-up or break-in of engines to protect against galling and microwelding. The piston crown is still machineable.



There was a dry film lubricant besides the Garfal on the skirt. I should be OK, the only place where I removed the Dry Lubricant was on the edges that I radiused.
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: Piston Coating & Deburring

Postby grumpyvette » September 10th, 2011, 2:10 pm

how far a long are you on each of the component sub- assembly's and basic engine build all together?
pictures?
how long until the engines installed?
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Piston Coating & Deburring

Postby Indycars » September 10th, 2011, 4:59 pm

I was going to post in my project build thread today, so I put the answer to your question there.

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814&p=16281#p16281
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
Indycars

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