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connecting rod info
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:39 pm 
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Location: florida
I build mostly BBC engines, but most of this info also applies to SBC connecting rod selection, I was asked if stock rods were ok or should they swap to better ARP bolts or BUY the BETTER RODS WITH THE UPGRADED BOLTS

read this
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/stee ... index.html

the 7/16" ARP connecting rod bolts are about 18% larger in cross sectional area than the 3/8" bolts and the better L19 or ARP 2000 bolts are a MINIMUM of 150% stronger than stock bolts even in the smaller 3/8" size,, the larger 7/16" is at least 200% stronger than the stock bolts in the rods., now rods can fail from high rpms and stress in other areas but its the rod bolts that fail in many cases, and in no case would I advise the use of stock 3/8" bolt connecting rods with lots of mileage on them be reused. the (H) design rods can be made slightly lighter in total weight for a given strength level, than a similar (I) beam rod, in the common 4340 steel forgings ,but tends to cost slightly more,(notice I DIDN,T SAY STRONGER, but STRONGER FOR A GIVEN WEIGHT) the weak point is usually the connecting rod bolts not the rod forging itself, always go with the 7/16" ARP bolts and the BOLT upgrade is advisable to L19 or better bolts once you start expecting to exceed 4000 feet per minute in piston speed, and its almost mandatory over 600hp and 4500 fpm (FEET PER MINUTE)in piston speed.
theres not a thing wrong with either the (H) or (I) designs if the quality is there in the design and manufacturing.
for most high performance cars,the choice should probably be based on which design has better clearance too the cam lobes and block rails and the use of 7/16" arp bolts, and what kind of package deal you can get on an INTERNALLY BALLANCE CRANK, DESIGNED FOR THE RODS if your looking to build the better assembly



look most stock chevy connecting rods are rated at no more than 6000rpm and 450-500hp
one factor to keep in mind is that rods typically have a side that rides against its matched companion and a side thats BEVELED for clearance on the crank journals radias EXAMPLE
Image
notice how one side of the bearing holding section has a radias (left) but the opposite sides flush (right)

now I may be in the small minority here, but I have always given away 3/8" bolt sbc or bbc rods rather than use them and purchased the 7/16" versions or aftermarket 7/16" cap screw rods, WITH the L19 bolt upgrade,the 7/16" rods ARE significantly stronger. rod bolts are critical, high stress items and one of the areas most likely to cause problems at high rpms and loads.
cross sectional area of a 3/8" bolt is approx .11 sq inches, a 7/16" bolt is approx .15 sq inches BTW when you go to buy a ring compressor....this type works far better than the others

Image

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO%2D66766&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Proform 66766 $31


how they work is you clamp it around your piston and adjust it to that size before the rings are installed so the piston is a snug slide thru fit, then, install the rings, dip the rings and piston in clean oil, place the compressor over the cylinder on the block with the base firmly held against the block deck and push the piston into its much larger open entrance, as it slides thru the funnel like construction squeezes the rings into the grooves and they can,t spring back until they are in the bore, remember to line up the rod bolts and having them covered with the ends of a 3 ft long section or 3/8" fuel line to protect the crank journal is a good idea, having a ROD GUIDE TOOL you can use to guide and PULL THE PISTON INTO THE BORE WITH IS EVEN A BETTER IDEA
use those good L19 bolts and assuming you sellected the good L19 bolts that test at 220,000 psi, for each the differance is 24.2 thousand lbs vs 33 thousand lbs or a 36% increase in strength, but the stock rod bolts are 160,000 psi so your really swapping from about 17.6 thousand to 33 thousand in strength or an 88% stronger rod bolt

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechWhy.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/Tech.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechMetals.html


reasonable quality connecting rods are CHEAP

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/product.asp?ProdID=3150

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/product.asp?ProdID=8817

keep in mind if a rod comes loose at high rpms you'll be LUCKY to save the intake, heads, blocks and cam are frequently damaged, spending an extra $90 for the better rod bolts is a total no brainer, in my opinion, if spending an extra $400-500 on rods and $90 on better bolts prevents rod failures, thats a minor consideration, when you may be spending $5500-$12,000 plus on an engine build.
you might also want to be aware that over revving and floating the valves, and using a poorly designed oil system is a major potential source of engine failures
I see rods and rod bolt failures blamed frequently when engines self destruct at high rpms, but its NOT always what it at first might appear to be....are there any detailed pictures of the rods or rod bolts that failed??? in many cases the source of the problem can be seen with a careful detailed exam, if you don,t know the SOURCE of the problem your doomed to repeat the sequence... [b]and keep in mind a good deal of what might appear to be rod/rod bolt failures, are ACTUALLY the result of over revving the valve train,and loss of valve train control, OR detonation, theres no way to compress a bent valve or broken piston ring land without potentially damaging the rods


well worth reading

http://www.rehermorrison.com/techtalk/63.htm

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1168

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1110&p=5644#p5644

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why0.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why1.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why2.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why3.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why4.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why5.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why6.html

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Re: connecting rod info
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:16 am 
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Location: florida
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech-c.htm

http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm

http://emweb.unl.edu/Mechanics-Pages/Lu ... s%20VI.htm

http://rustpuppy.org/rodstudy.htm

http://www.iskycams.com/techtips.php#2005

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=247

http://drag.race-cars.com/techtips/tech ... 1047440910

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeApeR ... ngrods.pdf

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/stee ... index.html
more good info, BTW if your going to buy aftermarket connecting rods a stroker crank, higher compression pistons ETC,
BUY A COMPLETE BALANCED ROTATING ASSEMBLY FROM A SINGLE SOURCE

http://www.adperformance.com/index.php? ... x&cPath=71


http://www.ohiocrank.com/rotatepage1.html

http://www.dougherbert.com/enginecompon ... 1_611.html


when you go to clearance a block and select components read the fine print on what your buying and remember to clearance the block and rods to clear the cam lobes, a clearance of,0.050" is OK, Ive always suggested 0.060" but thats not enough difference in clearance in that application to worry about.
EXAMPLE SCAT,IF your looking to save money theres a good deal of variation in kit components,aftermarket connecting rods with ARP 3/8" bolts are significantly stronger than stock rod bolts, and connecting rods so they are a big improvement, but in the future Id suggest looking at similar 7/16" cap screw rod kits with internally balanced cranks for most builds as the cost is usually only minimally higher.
forged cranks are nice, to brag about, but certainly more expensive and not required for a street/strip 383 that seldom sees 6400rpm,or similar applications
as a general rule you'll find 7/16" rods add about 20% more strength for a minimal cost upgrade.

3/8" rods(Fastener Yield Strength (psi) 160,000 psi)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-5700BPLW/



7/16" rods
Fastener Yield Strength (psi)200,000 psi


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-26000716/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-25700716/

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Re: connecting rod info
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:09 pm 
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I get asked all the time,
"should you re-use those stock rods, when I rebuild my 350 or when I build my 383 stroker"
most sbc gen I stock rods are designed to be cheap, and dependable in engines spinning under 6000rpm that make under 400hp,
this is one area where Im simply amused at the lack of thought shown in selecting components, by some guys.
most stock chevy small block rods are VASTLY inferior in strength to many of the mid range and better aftermarket rods available.
a 7/16" cap screw type ARP rod bolt is EASILY 200%-300% stronger than a stock 3/8" factory rod bolt and frankly, the cost & TIME to correctly modify and prep stock rods is a total waste, its almost always cheaper to buy decent aftermarket rods.


example

http://www.sdparts.com/product/12495071/5700quotPMConnectingRods.aspx
$265 for a set of stock rods and then you should still have ARP bolts installed, polish, balance and sized your looking at easily $500-$600 or more for a set ready to run

compared to something like this below its a joke

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SCA%2D6570021&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SCA%2D25700716&autoview=sku


keep in mind theres far stronger rods available if you have some extra cash, and that connecting rods and their rod bolts are under a huge amount of stress at high rpms....one rod bolt stretching at high rpm will usually result in engine failure and its common for only the intake, valve covers, distributor, and water pump and a few other parts to be salvageable if that were to happen at high rpms...stretch a rod bolt and the piston contacts the head, or bends a valve, the rod bends, the heads destroyed, the block can be history and it can go down hill rapidly from there as fragments work their way around thru other of the moving parts as the engine locks up
ITS not generally HP but RPMS or lack of lubrication to the bearings that kills rods, I know guys with turbo cars that have carefully reworked stock rods pushing over 700 hp but they don,t generally exceed 6300rpm, rods generally fail in TENSION when the rod or rod bolts stretch /stretches not in compression due to cylinder pressure.
thats why the 7/16" rod bolts are so much better, as the bolts are the weakest component in most designs
on the compression stroke the whole rod structure resists deformation on the exhaust stroke the rod bolts are playing crack the whip and the rods trying to keep the piston from pulling/distorting it maybe 25-40 thousands it takes to prevent head to piston contact, and the bearing shells from distorting ,under the load so they don,t loose the oil pressure support, if the rod elongates and hits the head or valves in valve float bad things cascade into worse things fast.
the rod bolt cross sectional area is generally far smaller than the rod itself and if the piston compresses the rod a few thousands on the power stroke there not much effected, but let the rod stretch and bad things happen real fast.
a 7/16" rod bolt is about 20% larger in cross section than a 3/8" rod bolt and the L19 ARP steel in the better rod bolts is easily 50%-100% stronger than the stock rod bolt steel in many cases, giving a decent aftermarket cap screw rod design a significant strength advantage

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Re: connecting rod info
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:19 am 
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connecting rods and rod bolts are under a high stress, levels, if your going to buy cheaper non-brand name rods your taking a greater chance on having a part not meet minimal specs and strenght levels than the better brand rods and ARP rod bolts, but that doesn,t mean the rods are necessarly bad or not a good deal.
Ive used several OFF brand rods, in builds but I INSIST the guys supplying the parts for those builds use 4340 steel rods with 7/16" ARP rod bolts

SCAT , EAGLE and CAT parts have all proven to function
heres some sources I use

http://www.scatenterprises.com/

http://www.survivalmotorsports.com/

http://www.adperformance.com/

http://www.dougherbert.com/

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Re: connecting rod info
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:13 pm 
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don,t get too concerned about your choice, between connecting rod lengths, here Ive built enought engines with both rod lengths to be sure both can result in a good combos

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/product.asp?ProdID=8089

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/product.asp?ProdID=8087

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/product.asp?ProdID=3145&CtgID=1003

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/product.asp?ProdID=6922&CtgID=1003

PROS/cons for 6"

KEEP IN MIND!!
the crank you sellect must have counter weights and clearances matching the rods you sellect, an INTERNALLY BALLANCED CRANK IS UNDER LESS HIGH RPM STRESS
NEXT the ROD BOLTS you use in EITHER rod should be the ARP 7/16" CAP SCREW DESIGN as they are at least 150% -200% stronger than the stock 3/8" rod bolt and nut designs, and its the rod bolts stretching that cause many problems, BALLANCING THE FULL ASSEMBLY IS CRITICAL TO LONG LIFE


longer dwell at TDC ,
In theory thats more high rpm tq for the 6" rods due to more efficient use of cylinder pressure at those high rpms but cam timing, scavaging and compression ratio must match to get the benefits, and detonation could be slightly more comon
a 5.7" will have longer DWELL at BDC and move away from TDC slightly faster so in theory it can produce better low rpm tq and higher port vacuum readings but again,but cam timing, scavaging and compression ratio must match to get the benefits

less cylinder side wear/loading
lower angle reduces side thrust, and ring wear but the differance is something like two degrees of angle so its not super critical

lower over all piston/rod weight
longer rod allows a shorter piston that weights less and has more counter weight to skirt clearance between piston and crank, generally this makes for slightly less high rpm stress

HIGH PISTON PIN
the 6" rod places the upper edge of the piston pin hole in the lower oil ring, this is generally not a huge problem but more a P.I.T.A. due to extra precausions need to prevent the lower oil scraper from placing the ring gap in the unsupported areas

LOWER PISTON PIN
longer piston skirt, more stable piston in the bore and lower oil ring fully supported, but heavier piston and less clearance on crank counter weights

BOTTOM LINE
ITs generally a toss up as to which is better in a street application, I prefer the 6" but you will have fewer assembly problems with the 5.7" rods



HERES WHAT ISKY CAMS SAYS

"Rod Lengths/Ratios: Much ado about almost nothing.

Why do people change connecting rod lengths or alter their rod length to stroke ratios? I know why, they think they are changing them. They expect to gain (usually based upon the hype of some magazine article or the sales pitch of someone in the parts business) Torque or Horsepower here or there in rather significant "chunks". Well, they will experience some gains and losses here or there in torque and or H.P., but unfortunately these "chunks" everyone talks about are more like "chips".

To hear the hype about running a longer Rod and making more Torque @ low to mid RPM or mid to high RPM (yes, it is, believe it or not actually pitched both ways) you'd think that there must be a tremendous potential for gain, otherwise, why would anyone even bother? Good question. Let's begin with the basics. The manufacture's (Chevy, Ford, Chrysler etc.) employ automotive engineers and designers to do their best (especially today) in creating engine packages that are both powerful and efficient. They of course, must also consider longevity, for what good would come form designing an engine with say 5% more power at a price of one half the life factor? Obviously none. You usually don't get something for nothing - everything usually has its price. For example: I can design a cam with tremendous high RPM/H.P. potential, but it would be silly of me (not to mention the height of arrogance) to criticize the engineer who designed the stock camshaft. For this engine when I know how poorly this cam would perform at the lower operating RPM range in which this engineer was concerned with as his design objective!

Yet, I read of and hear about people who do this all the time with Rod lengths. They actually speak of the automotive engine designer responsible for running "such a short Rod" as a "stupid SOB." Well, folks I am here to tell you that those who spew such garbage should be ashamed of themselves - and not just because the original designer had different design criteria and objectives. I may shock some of you, but in your wildest dreams you are never going to achieve the level of power increase by changing your connecting rod lengths that you would, say in increasing compression ratio, cam duration or cylinder head flow capacity. To illustrate my point, take a look at the chart below. I have illustrated the crank angles and relative piston positions of today's most popular racing engine, the 3.48" stroke small block 350 V8 Chevy in standard 5.7", 6.00", 6.125" and 6.250" long rod lengths in 5 degree increments. Notice the infinitesimal (look it up in the dictionary) change in piston position for a given crank angle with the 4 different length rods. Not much here folks, but "oh, there must be a big difference in piston velocity, right?" Wrong! Again it's a marginal difference (check the source yourself - its performance calculator).

To hear all this hype about rod lengths I'm sure you were prepared for a nice 30, 40, or 50 HP increase, weren't you? Well its more like a 5-7 HP increase at best, and guess what? It comes at a price. The longer the rod, the closer your wrist pin boss will be to your ring lands. In extreme situations, 6.125" & 6.250" lengths for example, both ring and piston life are affected. The rings get a double whammy affect. First, with the pin boss crowding the rings, the normally designed space between the lands must be reduced to accommodate the higher wrist pin boss. Second, the rings wobble more and lose the seal of their fine edge as the piston rocks. A longer Rod influences the piston to dwell a bit longer at TDC than a shorter rod would and conversely, to dwell somewhat less at BDC. This is another area where people often get the information backwards.

In fact, this may surprise you, but I know of a gentleman who runs a 5.5" Rod in a 350 Small Block Chevy who makes more horsepower (we're talking top end here) than he would with a longer rod. Why? Because with a longer dwell time at BDC the short rod will actually allow you a slightly later intake closing point (about 1 or 2 degrees) in terms of crank angle, with the same piston rise in the cylinder. So in terms of the engines sensitivity to "reversion" with the shorter rod lengths you can run about 2-4 degrees more duration (1-2 degrees on both the opening & closing sides) without suffering this adverse affect! So much for the belief that longer rod's always enhance top end power!

Now to the subject of rod to stroke ratios. People are always looking for the "magic number" here - as if like Pythagoras they could possibly discover a mathematical relationship which would secure them a place in history. Rod to stroke ratios are for the most part the naturally occurring result of other engine design criteria. In other-words, much like with ignition timing (spark advance) they are what they are. In regards to the later, the actual number is not as important as finding the right point for a given engine. Why worry for example that a Chrysler "hemi" needs less spark advance that a Chevrolet "wedge" combustion chamber? The number in and of itself is not important and it is much the same with rod to stroke ratios. Unless you want to completely redesign the engine (including your block deck height etc.) leave your rod lengths alone. Let's not forget after all, most of us are not racing at the Indy 500 but rather are hot rodding stock blocks.

Only professional engine builders who have exhausted every other possible avenue of performance should ever consider a rod length change and even they should exercise care so as not to get caught up in the hype.





5.70" Verses 6.00" Rod Length Comparison Chart

http://www.iskycams.com/ART/techinfo/ncrank1.pdf


MORE INFO, and yes its worth your time to read thru it

http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech-c.htm

http://em-ntserver.unl.edu/Mechanics-Pages/Luke-schreier/unzip/Tension%20and%20Compression%20in%20Connecting%20Rods%20VI.htm

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/tech/connectingrods.pdf

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Re: connecting rod info
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:40 pm
Posts: 5164
Location: florida
I build mostly BBC engines but this also applies to SBC connecting rod sellection, I was asked if stock rods were ok or should they swap to better ARP bolts or BUY the BETTER RODS WITH THE UPGRADED BOLTS

look most stock chevy connecting rods are rated at no more than 6000rpm and 450-500hp

now I may be in the small minority here, but I have always given away 3/8" bolt sbc or bbc rods rather than use them and purchased the 7/16" versions or aftermarket 7/16" cap screw rods, WITH the L19 bolt upgrade,the 7/16" rods ARE significantly stronger. rod bolts are critical, high stress items and one of the areas most likely to cause problems at high rpms and loads.
cross sectional area of a 3/8" bolt is approx .11 sq inches, a 7/16" bolt is aprox .15 sq inchs
use those good L19 bolts and assuming you sellected the good L19 bolts that test at 220,000 psi, the differance is 24.2 thousand lbs vs 33 thousand lbs or a 36% increase in strength

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechWhy.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/Tech.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechMetals.html


reasonable quality connecting rods are CHEAP

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/product.asp?ProdID=3150

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/product.asp?ProdID=8817

keep in mind if a rod comes loose at high rpms youll be LUCKY to save the intake, heads, blocks and cam are frequently damaged, spending an extra $90 for the better rod bolts is a total no brainer, in my opinion, if spending an extra $400-500 on rods and $90 on better bolts prevents rod failures, thats a minor consideration, when you may be spending $5500-$12,000 plus on an engine build.
you might also want to be aware that over reving and floating the valves, and useing a poorly designed oil system is a major potential source of engine failures

I see rods and rod bolt failures blamed frequently when engines self destruct at high rpms, but its NOT always what it at first might appear to be....are there any detailed pictures of the rods or rod bolts that failed??? in many cases the source of the problem can be seen with a careful detailed exam, if you don,t know the SOURCE of the problem your doomed to repeat the sequence... [b]and keep in mind a good deal of what might appear to be rod/rodbolt failures, are ACTUALLY the result of over reving the valve train,and loss of valve train control, OR detonation, theres no way to compress a bent valve or broken piston ring land without potentially damaging the rods



http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why0.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why1.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why2.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why3.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why4.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why5.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/T4_WhyPages/T4_01_Why6.html

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Re: connecting rod info
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:36 am 
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Location: florida
no one ever said this hobby is cheap! think how foolish youll feel if a rod fails simply because you got cheap and tried to save $50-$100 at the cost of allowing your rods to be %50 weaker than spending $50-$100 more on your combo could have done.
lets look at it...
the first thing I do with 3/8" bolt big block rods is sell them,you can usually get ($50-$70 a set for them)
heres why
the 7/16" ARP connecting rod bolts are about 18% larger in cross sectional area than the 3/8" bolts and the better L19 or ARP 2000 bolts are a MINIMUM of 150% stronger than stock bolts even in the smaller 3/8" size,, the larger 7/16" is at least 200% stronger than the stock bolts in the rods.
but ID strongly resist the urge to just drill out and install 7/16" ARP rod bolts in rods designed for the 3/8" rod bolts, theres a very good chance youll have removed enought material from around the bolt to effect its strength.
the amazing thing is that the total out the door cost of even the moderate aftermarket forged 4340 cap screw rods, is similar or even cheaper than the ,machine shop cost of the arp bolts and reworking the stock connecting rods.

BTW THE $90 ROD BOLT UPGRADE IS WELL WORTH IT IF YOUR PUSHING THE UPPER RPM LIMITS IN YOUR ENGINE BUILD

http://www.adperformance.com/index.php? ... cts_id=519

http://www.adperformance.com/index.php? ... cts_id=243



your average machine shop charges at least $120 to add the bolts and resize the rods, the bolts themselfs cost about $80, so your into those rods for about $200 minimum,now if your smart youll also have them magnaflux checked for stress cracks (another $50 minimum)now that $$200-$250 machine shop cost plus the $50-$70 minimum youll normally make selling the stock rods goes a LONG WAY toward upgradeing) yet a 3/8" rod bolt is a MINIMUM of 7000psi weaker than a 7/16 rod bolt due to the differance in cross section, now add to that the fact that the (H) style rods are rated at LEAST 50% stronger,are usually lighter in weight and closer in tollerance and require less ballancing and youll quickly find that the work necessary to get those 3/8" rods up to racing condition is wasted time and money in a true high performance engine

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1397&prmenbr=361

lets see, recondition old 3/8" rods = hours of work and costs $250-$300 minimum and they are still 50% weaker
OR
buy new (H) style cap screw 7/16" rods that are 50% stronger that require HOURS less work, are closer tollerance and cost on average $350-$400 NEW [color:"black"]remember that $400 is really minus the $250-$300 youll spend on the old rods so its only $50-$100 more for the up-grade [/color] plus they have more cam to rod bolt clearance in the block and require less grinding on the pan rails if a stroker cranks used, and if your buying pistons also you can buy a longer rod at minimal cost to improve the engines rod/stroke ratio!


http://www.flatlanderracing.com/crhbeamscat.htmlIF you already have 3/8" bolt big block rods and are about to rebuild the big block engine, please understand IM CERTAINLY NOT trying to rain on your parade! what I am trying to do is show anyone reading the thread, that the stock 3/8" rods are not the best choice to spend your money on and that proper planing helps the over all combos strength for the money spent
IVE seen to many guys spend major amounts of money
pollishing
shot peaning
resizing
ballancing
and ,magnafluxing stock rods
and winding up spending more and having less with stock rods then they might have had for the same or less money with aftermarket FORGED 7/16" bolt rods with careful shopping. you will occasionally get great deals on those rods on EBAY or at the LOCAL speed shops

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Re: connecting rod info
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:54 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:40 pm
Posts: 5164
Location: florida
GOSFAST posted this great photo to illustrate the differance between rod designs

Image

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/index.htm

rods designed like the 3 SERIES generally won,t work with stroker cranks while the 2 series usually will

the connecting rods you sellect make a huge differance in the rod to cam lobe clearance, even a small base cam won,t clear some designs, it should be obvious that the connecting rod with the thru bolt has a great deal less cam lobe clearance potentially than the cap screw design next to it., and the cap screw rod probably clears the blocks oil pan rail area easier also

Im running that crane 119661 cam retarded 4 degrees BTW but detonation has not been a problem, remember that the coolant temp, air temps the engine sees, QUENCH distance, type of head gasket and its construction ,ignition advance,plug heat range,piston to bore clearance, exhaust valve seat width, and oil temp and pollishing your combustion chamber and piston domes, and your AIR/FUEL RATIO , and the effective DYNAMIC compression ratio, have a noticable effect on detonation
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and if you do see detonation, theres octane boosters like TOULUENE

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octanebooster.html

http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html

http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

READ THIS

http://www.rehermorrison.com/techtalk/02.htm

many guys don,t realize that the rod bolt material and cross sectional area are critical to durrability , especially in a high rpm range combo,while the rods themselfs ocassionally fail, its much more likely that the rod bolts lost thier clamping strength, stretched a bit first and that was a major contributing factor in the bearing failure or the rod failure process.



interesting info from ARP

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Other Stresses

It must be realized that the direct reciprocating load is not the only source of stresses in bolts. A secondary effect arises because of the flexibility of the journal end of the connecting rod. The reciprocating load causes bending deformation of the bolted joint (yes, even steel deforms under load). This deformation causes bending stresses in the bolt as well as in the rod itself. These bending stresses fluctuate from zero to their maximum level during each revolution of the crankshaft.

Fastener Load

The first step in the process of designing a connecting rod bolt is to determine the load that it must carry. This is accomplished by calculating the dynamic force caused by the oscillating piston and connecting rod. This force is determined from the classical concept that force equals mass times acceleration. The mass includes the mass of the piston plus a portion of the mass of the rod. This mass undergoes oscillating motion as the crankshaft rotates. The resulting acceleration, which is at its maximum value when the piston is at top dead center and bottom dead center, is proportional to the stroke and the square of the engine speed. The oscillating force is sometimes called the reciprocating weight. Its numerical value is proportional to:
It is seen that the design load, the reciprocating weight, depends on the square of the RPM speed. This means that if the speed is doubled, for example, the design load is increased by a factor of 4. This relationship is shown graphically below for one particular rod and piston


http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechWhy.html


I did a quick DOUBLE TAKE on that bottom graph the first time also....look closer at the edges of the graph, its points out the STRONGER the material USED the SMALLER the dia. necessary for a given tensile strength, your limited in clearance on rod bolt max size so the material needs to have higher yeild strength, and potential durrability, to increase the rod bolt strength

FROM ARP

"Metallurgy for the Non-Engineer

By Russell Sherman, PE

1. What is grain size and how important is it?

Metals freeze from the liquid state during melting from many origins (called allotropic) and each one of these origins grows until it bumps into another during freezing. Each of these is a grain and in castings, they are fairly large. Grains can be refined (made smaller); therefore, many more of them can occupy the same space, by first cold working and then by recrystallizing at high temperature. Alloy steels, like chrome moly, do not need any cold work; to do this – reheat treatment will refine the grain size. But austenitic steels and aluminum require cold work first. Grain size is very important for mechanical properties. High temperature creep properties are enhanced by large grains but good toughness and fatigue require fine grain size-the finer the better. (High temp creep occurs at elevated temperature and depending on material and load could be as much as .001 per inch/per hour.) All ARP bolts and studs are fine grain – usually ASTM 8 or finer. With 10 being the finest.

2. How do you get toughness vs. brittleness?

With steels, as the strength goes up, the toughness decreases. At too high a strength, the metal tends to be brittle. And threads accentuate the brittleness. A tool steel which can be heat-treated to 350,000 psi, would be a disaster as a bolt because of the threads."

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechMetals.html

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Re: connecting rod info
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:40 pm
Posts: 5164
Location: florida
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theres a wide sellection of connecting rods you can choose from,and even some of the less expensive 4340 steel rods with ARP 7/16" rod bolts make a decent component for a street strip engine up to easily 600hp, , but its very hard to tell just looking, because the type of steel,critical measurements, heat treating and pollishing are hard to identify by looks,alone,IVE used alot of SCAT,AND CROWER rods and a few LUNATI and MANLEY and all the 4340 STEEL RODS with 7/16" ARP bolts have worked just fine.
I would strongly suggest a KNOWN NAME brand and insist on ARP bolts

more connecting rod info

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/eagle/

http://emweb.unl.edu/Mechanics-Pages/Lu ... s%20VI.htm

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Re: connecting rod info
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:40 pm
Posts: 5164
Location: florida
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http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku


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http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

heres a stretch chart
http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechTorque.html
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heres the short version,AFTER each rods installed with its bearing on the crank, durring the short block assembly process,set the stretch gauge to zero on the bolts unstretched length, you use a torque wrench on rod bolts lubed with assembly lube too tighten each of them in several stages, tighten the rod bolts to the recomended torque then loosen them and re-tighten them a minimum of three times each, after the final torque value is reached for the third time, you check each bolt against the chart values, most will be a bit short,of the full permited stretch value, while the bolts being meassured , you can slip the stretch gauge off for a second and use the correct long wrench to further tighten them slowly and carefully too just under or up too the stretch chart limits in length, if they are not at that length due to the torque wrench stretching the bolt,this insures max clamping loads, without exceeding the bolts elastic limits so its at max holding strength for the application. cycling the bolt thru several cycles tends to make sure its firmly seated and fully stretched and tends to find problems like deffective bolts, and bolt that doesn,t shrink back below the chart value when the tensions released is deffective and needs replacement


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FROM ARP

"We highly recommend using a stretch gauge when installing rod bolts and other fasteners where it is possible to measure the length of the fastener. It is the most accurate way to determine the correct pre-load in the rod bolt.

Simply follow manufacturer’s instructions, or use the chart on page 25 of the ARP catalog for ARP fasteners.

Measure the fastener prior to starting, and monitor overall length during installation. When the bolt has stretched the specified amount, the correct preload, or clamping load, has been applied.

We recommend you maintain a chart of all rod bolts, and copy down the length of the fastener prior to and after installation. If there is a permanent increase of .001˝ in length, or if there is deformation, the bolt should be replaced. "

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/11 ... index.html


a few more less expensive tools

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... rices.html

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