how dampers work



how dampers work

Postby grumpyvette » October 20th, 2008, 9:47 am

TAKE TIME TO READ THRU THESE

http://racingarticles.com/files/general ... icle-2.pdf

http://www.fluidampr.com/HOWITWORKS.htm

http://www.atiperformanceproducts.com/p ... /index.htm

http://www.bhjdynamics.com/downloads/pd ... r_Info.pdf

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/engine ... index.html

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampe ... amserp.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=nbuTwX ... q=&f=false

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/tech ... index.html

http://www.atiperformanceproducts.com/p ... rs/sae.htm

Image

http://www.jegs.com/i/Proform/778/66514/10002/-1



life is SOOOO MUCH easier if you buy and use the correct tools to remove and install the damper

the larger the dia. and heavier the damper/ ballancer you use, the more effective it can be at absorbing/cancelling vibrations, but the DESIGN and construction of the ballancer is more important than just small differances in size.
and theres clearance issues with the cars frame and cross member on some cars.
OBVIOUSLY the better aftermarket designs cost more than the OEM elastomer band designs, but your first problem is going to be verifying exactly how your current crank assembly is designed to be ballanced, and MATCHING both the flywheel and damper designed used to that application.
what your really talking about when you say balancer is a crank damper.
the stock harmonic damper is made to absorb crankshaft flex harmonics and they are tuned to work for the most common frequency and amplitude vibration with the stock rotating assy at a moderate rpms up to about 4500rpm.
when you start raising the intended rpm range or modify the rotating assembly components like use of different rods, pistons and converters or clutch assembles and intended rpm limits with etc then theres some potential power and durability to be considered with a correctly tuned damper.
the correct factory damper/balancer is ok for most street/strip engines that rarely operate over 5000rpm
.theres some moderately priced sfi dampers out there. I usually recommend ati or in limited some cases fluid damper

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch ... 5&x=39&y=5
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: how dampers work

Postby grumpyvette » November 29th, 2008, 2:36 pm

I’ve used the FLUID DAMPER and ATI brand dampers on several engines, EITHER WORKS, I’ve seen info that scat cranks says the FLUID DAMPER, is not as effective as the ATI but I’ve never yet had a problem with EITHER DESIGN. I’ve never YET used the TCI on a PERSONALLY OWNED engine, but I’ve used them when they were supplied by customers.
keep in mind dampers provide a bit of security for the rotating assembly in that their function is to prevent crank damage from torsion and oscillating loads but, its difficult to gauge their effectiveness, vs a different brand if the engine feels smooth and your not experiencing problems.
Especially since most guys have an engine balanced with the damper as part of the rotating assembly, and if they don’t have problems, and the engine seems to run smoothly, then they are forced to assume everything is fine until they DO!, its not like most guys test 4-5 different dampers to see which one runs best.
looking at things from an engineering stand point ,the idea of a heavy balance ring supported in a close tolerance housing with thick viscous oil has obvious advantages, in the friction damping effect of trying to accelerate or de-accelerate that ring rapidly, without a mechanical grip on the ring, as its going to work effectively at most rpm ranges where a elastomer ring between two weights will have a set frequency range where its very effective but it won’t be as effective a far higher rpms, the idea of loose counter weights in the perimeter to absorb vibration seems to be about in between to me, unless you set it up for a narrow rpm range where it would be very effective, but then I’ve never spent a great deal of time studying all potential methods, of rapid frequency absorbs ion and results.Imageor drive shaft balance, KEEP in mind drive shafts can get twisted or bent, throwing them significantly out of balance.

http://www.fluidampr.com/HOWITWORKS.htm

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19807361/Crankshaft-Damper-

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampers/101/index.htm
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: how dampers work

Postby grumpyvette » January 10th, 2009, 8:15 am

http://www.professional-products.com/da ... Bchevy.php

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch ... &y=13&x=43

http://www.flatlanderracing.com/scat-dampers.html

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampe ... ctions.htm

Image

ID strongly suggest you buy a decent damper it can prolong your rotating assemblys life expectancy, not look for the least expensive component,
KEEP in mind as the rpms increase the number of power strokes per minute and the speed of the crank moving away from that force on each crank journal increases so the TIME and DURRATION of individual power strokes has less individual effect on the rotating assembly, as the crank can,t flex as far or return as much between power pulses.
I almost hate to comment, on chinese import stuff, but yes its been my experiance that for a cheaper damper they work reasonably well, in the lower rpm bands,certainly as well or better than a stock damper, but you need a damper that works over a full rpm range of the engine,they also may not be indexed correctly so verify that before you trust them, as even a cheap replacement part.

you might also keep in mind stock elastomer dampers have a distressing tendency to come appart violently at 6000-9000rpm and large chunks of metal suddenly exiting the engine tend to be counter productive

you might want to read thru these


http://fluid-damper.com/

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles ... index.html


http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/tech ... index.html

http://www.fluidampr.com/HOWITWORKS.htm

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/engine ... index.html

http://www.tciauto.com/Products/TechInf ... r_tech.asp

Image

http://www.jegs.com/i/Proform/778/66514/10002/-1



life is SOOOO MUCH easier if you buy and use the correct tools

use the correct tool (thier dirt cheap)as stock ballancers have a elastic ring that wiil be damaged if stressed to much gripping the outer edge, and fluid dampers, and other aftermarket dampers can be damaged also if pulled on the outer edges

sets like this rarely cost over $20, and frequently far less

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=37824

most auto parts stores sell them

Image

that's an EXTERNALLY balanced damper

Image
its REQUIRED to be used with a MATCHING crank and counter weighted FLEX PLATE or FLYWHEEL


if your going to be balancing the rotating assembly you'll want to have the FULL complement of the rotating assembly components balanced.
a stock damper has an elastic ring glued between and inner and outer cast steel hub, that allows the outer hub to rotate/accelerate or decelerate a degree or two faster or slower than the inner hub to absorb crank impulse loads induced on the crank as the cylinders fire but they are designed to maximize the effect in the 2500rpm-4500rpm range where stock engines spend 99% of their time. and are far less effective above 4500rpm, than some of the other designs, keep in mind the SFI rated balancers won,t tend to fragment at high rpms like the O.E.M. designs occasionally do when the elastomer ring degrades or the outer hub fractures
the problem most guys have is almost all dampers look very similar, so they can,t see why some dampers cost $5 and some cost $400, the reason is that the more expensive designs cost a good deal more to manufacture and are designed to function at any engine rpm, while the less expensive designs only work great at a single rpm range and on the cheaper designs thats usually in the 3500rpm-4000rpm band, there are thousands of engines, running for years without problems with the less expensive elastomer ring dampers and if you'll rarely reach or exceed about 6000rpm theres no huge need to invest in an expensive damper on a basic transportation engine. but the more expensive SFI rated dampers DO have a PLACE, in that they are FAR LESS likely to come apart at high rpms, and they tend to promote longer bearing life on engines that are frequently used at high rpms and under high shock loads

Ive had very good results with the ATI and FLUID DAMPER BALANCERS

Image
http://www.fluidampr.com/

Viscous dampers past present and future (from the fluid damper site)

The best dampers on the market are manufactured in the U.S.A. by Horschel Motorsports, an ISO 9001:2008 certified facility. Horschel Motorsports is continuing the tradition that started in 1946, when the first viscous damper was invented. Over 4 million viscous dampers have been made for heavy duty diesel, drag car, stock car, street machine, race boat and other high performance engines. Looking into the future, Horschel Motorsports promises to manufacture the best dampers available as well as engineering new solutions for developing engine technologies.

The fluid in a Fluidampr…

It has been rumored that the fluid in a Fluidampr turns to gel over time. Here’s a news flash, its gel when we pump it into the damper. That is how the technology works. The silicone gel inside the damper keeps the flywheel in place and functioning. So to put all of the competitions claims to rest, it is a gel, always and forever. Maybe we should have named them Geldamprs .

Let’s talk about rubber

Other dampers on the market use rubber or “elastomer” as the insulator for the internal flywheel. Rubber deteriorates and wears down from repeated movements. In layman’s terms, the more you work it, the weaker it will get. The inertia ring that balances an elastomeric damper becomes unstable when the o-rings start to wear. Think of it this way, what does a car wheel feel like when it looses one of its balancing weights? How would a fan missing a blade function? A damper with worn o-rings can unbalance a crankshaft and destroy it.

The reason car manufactures install elastomer dampers at the factory is not for performance but for cost. The “rubber” dampers are cheaper and easier to make.


related threads you should read

http://www.fluidampr.com/DOWNLOADS/CATA ... VROLET.pdf



viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3554&p=9433&hilit=harmonic+balancer#p9433

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3900&p=10338&hilit=harmonic+balancer#p10338

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1804&p=4620&hilit=+harmonic+balancer#p4620

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=141&p=175&hilit=+harmonic+balancer#p175

" GRUMPY?
I had this FLUID DAMPER BALANCER on an engine several years ago or my Fluidamper/ Street damper has been sitting on the shelf while I have been finishing my engine. Will the part need inspection or testing?"

http://www.fluidampr.com/CHEVROLET.htm

http://www.fluidampr.com/ASKTECH/7.html

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampers/


No. The inertia ring is always freely floating inside the housing. The silicone fluid is guaranteed to last forever. As long as the damper was never physically abused (hit with a hammer), installed properly with an installer tool or a bolt and washer, and as long as the damper maintains a tight press fit on the crankshaft, there is nothing that can go wrong with the damper. It is important to check for corrosion or pitting on the seal surface of the damper, before installation. The seal surface should be smooth and free from rust and corrosion. As with most any performance part, if it is physically damaged from an accident or a fire, the damper should be replaced.


http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampe ... mchevy.htm

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampers/101/index.htm

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_te ... orbers.htm

http://www.bhjdynamics.com/downloads/pd ... r_Info.pdf

http://www.innovatorswest.com/store/ind ... at&catId=1
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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