I've bought a Canton RR oil pan (part nr. 15-240M) for my vette but I received a pick-up
for high voulme oil pump with it.
I think that I'll stick with stock oil pump for now, so my question is, can I use stock pump and
stock pick-up with this pan?
I know that pickup height from the bottom is most important, but I'm asking this question because
stock pickup is round style and the one that I received with the pan is square and looks completely
different.

Or do you think that buying a new melling m-select 10550 HV oil pump would be a good idea?

I've read through a lot of web pages and opinions vary. Some say that HV pump will heat up the oil,
cause foaming, even oil starvation, and most important that it will kill distributor or cam gears prematurely.

Before my rebuild, I had good oil pressures, but when fully heated, it would go as low as ~10 PSI at idle (900 rpm).
I'm affraid that after rebuild, and I'll be using stock crank that will be only polished and std/std bearings, my pressure
could be a bit lower (due to a little more clearances from polishing).

What would be your choice?

My engine will be street/road race driven and I like to drive it hard, so engine sees a lot of abusing.
It should be arround 400 crank HP and 6500 rpm red line.
Engine combo is:
- stock crank - polished
- std/std bearings
- forged SCAT rods
- forged SRP pistons
- Canton 15-240M oil pan
- ??? oil pump
- LS style hyd. roller lifters
- 1.6 RR's, pro-magnums
- CC's XR288HR cam 236/242 @.050"
- #113 heads ported, 2.02/1.60 valves
- ported superram

Also, if I'll go with HV pump, is this the mod that has to be done to improve oiling
to distributor gear?




watch this video
http://www.melling.com/Info/TechTipVideos.aspx

if the oil pump pick-up that came with your oil pan will mount to your oil pump it should be used, if its the 3/4" tube and yours requires a 5/8" tube . obviously youll need to use a different pick up, Id suggest you call canton , they will know the correct part number and possibility even swap it out, for the one you got sent.
the round pick-up may work ok but its likely to inter-fear with the pans baffles hence the smaller square design,
look at the picture below, the restrictive stock O.E.M. pickup if placed to close to the oil pan floor becomes a HUGE restriction to oil flow rates



"I've read through a lot of web pages and opinions vary. Some say that HV pump will heat up the oil,
cause foaming, even oil starvation, and most important that it will kill distributor or cam gears prematurely."

HV pump will heat up the oil,- 95% B.S., SMOKEY YUNICK PROVED THIS TO BE A MYTH WITH TESTING FROM G.M.
cause foaming, 100% B.S., THE OIL THAT RECYCLES THUR THE PUMP < ON THE BYE-PASS CIRCUIT, AND DOES NOT EXIT BACK TO THE OIL PAN IN A CHEVY
even oil starvation, with the matched oil pan and the proper dimensions 100% B.S., oil acts like your timing chain in that its mostly cycling from the crankcase to the level of the cam and lifters, and most of the oil that does reach the upper engine drains back quickly




there no reason to not use the high volume pump with the high volume baffled oil pan, the reasons are simple enough, a high volume pump is very similar to a standard pump in design, its just got impeller gears that are 10% or 20% longer so the pump, can be looked at as either pumping 10%-20% more oil at a given rpm OR it pumps the same oil volume at a 10%-20% lower rpm.
PRESSURE is a MEASURE of the resistance to flow, and that flow resistance is the result of the bearing clearances, and mods done to the lubrication system to increase oil flow rates.
Ive never seen a properly installed high volume oil pump and pick-up installed in a high capacity baffled oil pan, with a windage screen that directs oil back to the sump efficiently cause a problem, the problems that are frequently blamed on the high volume oil pumps are usually the result of improper clearances, failure to use a matching oil pan, or restricted oil drain back controls .
ON FACT many guys ignore is that you can increase the gauge pressure reading with thicker viscosity oil, and you can decrease the gauge pressure reading with thinner viscosity oil,mods that increase the oil flow rates like drilling the front oil passage plug or grooving the lifter bores or distributor lower band will reduce the gauge pressure reading, and the resistance the pump places on the cam gear driving it,
YOULL GAIN FAR MORE INFO READING THE LINKS AND SUB LINKS

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800

http://www.melling.com/Info/TechTipVideos.aspx

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... index.html

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=52

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=150

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1837

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=615

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1334

Grumpy , I installed my pickup tube on the oil pump to get the measurement for oil pan clearance. I used a 1/2" thick nut and used one of the magnets (that you advised for oil galley) to hold the nut in place on bottom of the pickup tube. It worked great the magnet fit inside the nut and it was not going to move I pushed the pan on 4 times and got the same measurement on all 4.

great!
now BRAZE the pick-up tube to the pump,at the correct clearance from the oil pan floor,(after temporarily removing the bye-pass spring to prevent its getting annealed) because engine vibrations WILL FREQUENTLY over time in most cases cause the pump pick-up to move, if its only press fit,and if you operate the engine at higher rpm levels ,if you don,t braze the pick-up.

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1948&p=5176&hilit=braze#p5176

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2194&p=5905&hilit=braze#p5905

brazing the oil pump pick-up tube to the pump body after carefully checking clearances will usually prevent the oil pump pick-up from vibrating loose over time
BRAZING the pick-up to the pump is a good idea but remember to remove the pressure regulator valve, and its spring first, and allowing the lower pump body to slowly air cool, not drop it into water to cool or it may warp,and remember to oil the bye-pass circuit components before installing them, remember failing to do so, you can warp the bye-pass circuit piston, which may cause it to bind in its bore making the oil pump bye-pass not function,(resulting in pressures raising into the 80psi-90psi plus ranges) or you could anneal the springs temper causing the bye-pass circuit to open at a lower pressure,(like 45psi-50psi) than its designed too (60psi-65psi) limiting your peak oil pressure and oil and replace it after the pumps cooled



Ive always preferred stainless socket head cap screws, on the bolt on oil pump pick-ups with external bolts bottom plate bolts drilled for safety wire, or using LOCTITE on the threads
bolt on oil pump pick-ups are subject to a lot of vibration so you safety wire the bolts, and us LOCTITE on the threads, and a brace bolted or welded to the pick-up won,t hurt



external locations need safety wire
http://www.whizwheels.com/Tips/safetywiring.html





http://www.jegs.com/p/Milodon/Milodon-P ... 5/10002/-1





http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=45341


http://www.fastenersuperstore.com/store ... tage=step3

youll find these very helpful

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... word=allen

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=96645


viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800&p=4597#p4597

it may be hard to believe but your oil pump pick-up if unsupported vibrates and tends to work loose, so brazing it in place and use of a support strap tends to help, but its not a 100% cure, install the pick-up wrong or use the wrong support and they can still occasionally break


http://www.aa1car.com/library/us1097.htm

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manua ... tm#oil-low
pick-ups like this one below are less likely to break due to better support, but if not properly installed can still fail


there are high pressure bye-pass circuit springs available

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-122171/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-122170/



http://www.melling.com/Aftermarket/High ... Pumps.aspx

wait, stop right there
!

don,t assume the gauge or the sensors defective!

that is a very common SYMPTOM, or INDICATION, of a fairly common problem, thats usually the result of the oil pump pick-up being mounted too close to the oil pan floor, at low rpms, theres just enough flow to maintain oil pressure but as the engine rpms increase your flow into the pump quickly becomes restricted and oil pressure drops to zip, but returns when the rpms fall.
allowing this condition to continue will result in bearing damage


you must verify theres a MINIMUM or 3/8" under the oil pump pick-up to pan floor.

this is especially common if you've installed a high volume oil pump, because the pumps longer and the oil pump pick-ups moved about 3/8"-1/2" closer to the oil pan floor , this results in that restriction to flow with some pick-up screens if you don,t verify the clearance, or if the pick-up moves due to vibration if you fail to braze it to the pump, this is the source of the MYTH that high volume oil pumps pump the pan dry, when in fact theres plenty of oil in the pan, its just not accessible due to clearance/flow restriction issues

pick-up quality , and screen strength varies wildly, the more substantial screen designs are less likely to fail
and the pickups with bracing straps, and bolt on mounts tend to stand up to vibration far longer
perforated metal screen rarely fails and brazing the pickup tube to the pump body after careful measurements are taken,and temporarily removing the bye-pass spring is advised


a reasonably short and well supported design like this is almost ideal mounted to a matching 7-9 quart , baffled oil pan with a windage screen, thats designed to quickly return oil to the sump










use of a fairly long and un-supported design like these three above, that's simply been press fit into the pump without brazing or supports added, is almost a guarantee of eventual problems on a high performance application