magnets



magnets

Postby grumpyvette » September 18th, 2008, 4:53 pm

heres an old post

"Any source for the magnets Grumpy? "
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.a ... SH&cat=167
Ive used these for years, the object of using high strength magnets in any engine is to trap metallic debris and broken valve train component parts bits of worn cam lobes ETC. before they circulate with the oil and cause excessive wear and get embedded in bearings or bust the oil pump gears.
the combination of MAGNETS and a few shrapnel screens to limit debris reaching the oil pump from the lifter gallery can be very helpful in limiting damage to bearings and the oil pump.

http://www.magneticdrainplugs.com/

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.a ... SH&cat=167

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R09Vc6tkDh0

these are NOT REFRIGERATOR MAGNETS "#0001" can pick up a SBC cylinder head, and you wont believe the amount of crud they remove from your oil and prevent from reaching the bearings


OIL FILTER MAGNETS THAT SURROUND THE OIL FILTER, WON,T HURT BUT REMEMBER THEY CAN ONLY TRAP DEBRIS AFTER THE OILS BEEN THRU THE OIL PUMP GEARS,
THUS OIL PAN AND LIFTER GALLERY MAGNETS, OIL PUMP PRE SCREENS DO MORE TO PREVENT DEBRIS FROM ENTERING THE OIL PUMP

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FTM-RA365/

THIS is a good example of what happens to bearings if the oil passages are allowed to push small metallic debris, from wear like rockers,valve tips,cam and lifter wear thru the engine, use of a few small magnets, and shrapnel screens helps reduce or eliminate this

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BE AWARE magnets heat tolerance differs so ask for and pay attention to the heat limitations, a MINIMUM of 300F for any magnet expected to be used bathed in hot engine oil would be smart
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heres whats left of a failed roller lifter roller wheel, Ive seen several similar failures , roller lifter life and valve train component expectancy tends to be rather short once spring pressures exceed about 500 psi and lifter exceed about .700 with that failing the cam lobe was nearly instantly destroyed, without several magnets and a shrapnel screen trapping most of the debris damage would be even worse to the bearings that what it was as easily 90% plus of the crap was trapped by magnets and never entered the oil pump, if only a single one of those hardened roller bearings gets sucked into an oil pump the norma/ result is a seized or busted oil pump and almost instant loss of oil pressure

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Ive been installing 4 of these lately in the corners of the oil pan sump,nothing magnetic (metallic dust from engine wear, assorted trash,etc.)can get past them, I also sometimes install one near the rear oil drain in each head to collect broken valve train shrapnel in case of a failure to limit damage on race engines. btw if you don't want to install them inside the sump you can J&B weld them to the outside of the oil pan permanently or just place them there if you want them removable,TRUST ME THEY WON,T FALL OFF ON THEIR OWN attached to the steel oil pan sump
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you can expect things like this if its allowed to continue
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heres a good example of why keeping small metallic debris like valve locks and rocker arm bearing parts out of the oil pump gears is a good idea, shrapnel screens and magnets tend to reduce that from occurring

failure to maintain a correctly functioning lubrication system,maintain, valve train control, provide consistent cooling and an ignition advance curve and to stay out of detonation can result in expensive lessons in engine repair

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if you use a magnetic drain plug, this is fairly normal trash after several thousand miles running time

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if you use a magnetic drain plug, this is a fairly good indication of major problems with the engine after several thousand miles running time



keep in mind ALL THAT CRAP PASSED THRU AND PUT WEAR ON THE OIL PUMP FIRST! placing the MUCH STRONGER MAGNETS IN THE SUMP HELPS TOO OR PREVENTS THAT
"so do you just stick it in the inside corners of the pan and it stays put?"
yes you can do it that way on STEEL OIL PANS, and trust me, youll see why they don,t come lose real quickly

"or do you attach it some other way as well? "

personally I place them in the corners and cover them with a thin coat of J&B weld to make wiping off the accumulated metallic dust easier when I pull the oil pan, but many guys J&B weld them on the outside of the pans sump,the only way your going to get the metallic dust out is to pull and clean the pan once in a while, because once the crud's stuck to the magnets its there almost permanently, but it won,t come lose and get back into the oil flow

"If you install it on the outside of the pan how do you get the stuff out? maybe just slide the magnet to the drain hole so it comes out? "

you could do that more than likely if you only used one magnet but with several I think the steel oil pan itself might remain somewhat magnetic even after the magnets themselves were removed, as long as its not being carried thru the engine by the oil they are doing their job

btw, add a few magnets to the oil pan and drain back area in your engine, the trap and hold metallic dust that comes from wear and increase engine life span by preventing that crap embedding in the bearings

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D66SH


these are even more tolerant of temp swings and retain strength at even higher engine oil temps plus they are smaller and easier to use

The SH material in the D66SH magnets, means that the magnets can be heated to 300° F without any loss of magnetic strength, unlike standard neodymium magnets that begin to lose strength at 175° F. Suitable for many high temperature applications.


the problem with that magnet on the oil filter,that most guys have seen and many guys use, like this....

http://www.shopfiltermag.com/

READ THRU THIS THREAD AND SUB LINKS
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=2919&p=7625#p7625

RELATED INFO

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3834&p=10199&hilit=trash+pump#p10199

is that anything that makes it into the oil filter has already traveled thru the oil pump gears,if for example a valve keeper or roller bearings fro your rockers get into those gears they can and frequently do cause massive internal oil pump damage or a busted pump and theres also some minute chance of it bye-passing the filter, yes its a big improvement over no magnets but its not a complete potential barrier to metallic crud in the oil passages
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BUYING A TOOL and DOING SOME PERSONAL LOOKING AT THE INTERNAL PARTS HELPS
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you might be amazed at what youll see with a tool that allows a close visual inspection of a filters internal components rather than makes un-informed random guesses.
actually knowing what your dealing with is helpful,reading some links and doing research is also much more likely to produce informed answers than engaging in a (IS TOO! VS IS NOT! ) style discussion with someone else whos equally un-informed
have you seen this
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related info

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2727&p=7078&hilit=shrapnel%E2%80%A6#p7078

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265&hilit=shrapnel%E2%80%A6#p3265
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: magnets

Postby grumpyvette » October 9th, 2008, 2:48 pm

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AN EXCELLENT example of why a good filter and several magnets
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D66-N52

can be a huge asset and why high rates of quality oil flow , checking your clearances,useing a good MOLY assembly lube are necessary, to prevent this
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: magnets

Postby grumpyvette » November 2nd, 2008, 7:15 pm

if your concerned about magnets tending to trap metallic trash in the oil passages ,just place magnets near the rear head drain holes in the heads and in the corners of the oil pan sump, but after doing the magnet deal for years and refreshing blocks after using them and rodding out oil passages after years of use, I,M not a bit concerned with placing one in the lifter gallery front and rear areas, as they trap shrapnel, like bits of valve keepers, and needle bearings from roller rockers, if the valve train self destructs and have never posed a problem, you will be amazed at the accumulated metallic crud these magnets trap and prevent from getting back into the oil circulating thru your engine

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BE AWARE magnets heat tolerance differs so ask for and pay attention to the heat limitations, a MINIMUM of 300F for any magnet expected to be used bathed in hot engine oil would be smart

I USE THESE IN ALL MY ENGINE BUILDS

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH
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"If you are looking for a powerful disc magnet to put in your oil pan or attach to an oil filter, this is the magnet you need. Our D82SH magnets are made with grade N38SH (SH = Super High Temperature) material. The SH material means that the magnets can be heated to 300° F without any loss of magnetic strength, unlike standard neodymium magnets that begin to lose strength at 175° F. Suitable for many high temperature applications."
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http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RY046


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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-9 ... toview=sku

if you really want to keep tabs on engine condition, regular oil changes, having a magnet like this on the base of your oil filter and the smaller magnets to trap loose metallic debris in the engine before it can run thru the oil pump and bearings and using a cutting tool designed to allow inspection of your oil filters after every oil change will provide you with a great deal of information and potentially prevent or at least alert you to potential minor problems, long before they become expensive major problems

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http://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog/index.p ... m-magnets/

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D61SH

http://www.drainplugmagnets.com/home.html

shrapnel screens in the lifter gallery and magnets in the lifter gallery , rear drain holes in the heads and oil pan sump, plus a decent screen on the oil pump pickup go a LONG WAY toward preventing metallic trash from reaching the oil pump

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http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D66SH

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=150#p150

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800&p=5526&hilit=pickups#p5526

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265&hilit=shrapnel#p3265

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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-900510/

these work great, for inspecting what reaches the filter,but if you,
place several of these magnets (LINK BELOW) in your oil pan,and lifter gallery, it reduces significantly the metallic crud going thru the oil pump, thus reducing wear and preventing some issues like busted bits of valve train reaching the pumps gears

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D66SH


SHRAPNEL SCREENS,BEING EPOXIED INTO THE LIFTER GALLERY ,DRAINS ,USED ALONG WITH THE MAGNETS, ARE A BIG PLUS TO KEEPING CRAP OUT OF THE BEARINGS AND OIL PUMP



viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2727&p=7078&hilit=+magnets#p7078

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265&hilit=shrapnel%E2%80%A6#p3265
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one more potential possible source of metallic debris that could provide the cause of the cylinder bore damage
now if your building an engine you GOING TO DO FREQUENT OIL CHANGES ON AND NEVER LET SLUDGE BUILD UP...you can probably limit that potential valve train shrapnel screens and magnets that trap small destructive crud
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viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265&hilit=screens#p3265

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D66SH
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: magnets

Postby Indycars » September 27th, 2012, 7:36 am


When putting magnets in a steel oil pan, is there any need to use something
like JB Weld to hold them in place? Seems like they would stay on their
own, they are magnets.

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Re: magnets

Postby grumpyvette » September 27th, 2012, 9:08 am

the high temp magnets tend to stay right where they are placed, in a steel oil pan, but youll need J&B weld in an aluminum oil pan application,
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.a ... SH&cat=167
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http://www.jbweld.com/faqs/
in my experience PROVIDED you use the ones designed to function in the heat range they can tolerate, just be aware you don,t want them too close to swinging oil baffle door flaps in a baffled oil pan as they have been known to hold those swinging gates open or closed if placed in the wrong areas,
example,
If this is an oil pan with this oil control baffle wall installed ,with steel oil control baffle doors, placing a magnet above these baffle doors is almost sure to prevent them from closing or placing one below is a sure way to keep them locked closed, thats one reason light weight ALUMINUM baffle doors are preferred,even in steel oil pans, the oil sloshing moves them, from open to closed as designed easily , limiting oil flow to movement in the direction desired, and magnets don,t tend to limit movement
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: magnets

Postby grumpyvette » December 12th, 2012, 11:29 am

I was just looking thru a magazine where they showed the result of a roller lifter that had failed and the tiny needle bearings dropped into the oil pan and got sucked up into the oil pump, which tried to pump those hardened steel roller bearings thru the gears but the clearances quickly locked the oil pump up and sheared the oil pump drive instantly resulting in zero oil pressure. thats a great way to point out the need for several items in your engine build, I know from lots of personal experience,disassembling engines,and rebuilding them, as I generally install magnets in every engine I build and so do most of my friends now, that a half dozen magnets will trap and hold an amazing amount of loose debris from ever reaching the oil pump... cam lobes wear as do lifters and rings, rockers etc. and wear is not something everyone can avoid, even an engine that seems to look pristine with no obvious wear will still have metallic dust collect on the magnets over time!
thats VERY COMMON, and even after you wash parts having a few magnets in the engine to trap random metallic crud helps.
any bearing failures are frequently or at least partly the result of micro crud being washed loose as parts wear,by hot oil and being embedded in bearings.

SHOP CAREFULLY HEAT AFFECTS THE MAGNETS AND SOME DESIGNS ARE FAR MORE RESISTANT TO HEAT DAMAGE

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=t ... um-magnets
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shrapnel screens
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if you don,t think the trouble and expense of installing a few shrapnel screens and a dozen magnets is worth the time and effort consider how much metallic crap will circulate through the oil pump if they are not in place when something unpleasant happens
magnets
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BE AWARE magnets heat tolerance differs so ask for and pay attention to the heat limitations, a MINIMUM of 300F for any magnet expected to be used bathed in hot engine oil would be smart

I USE THESE IN ALL MY ENGINE BUILDS

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH

oil pump pre-sceens
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oil filter pre-screens
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and it would not hurt to put some thought into a non-bypass oil filter to potentially trap much of the finer debris

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=10380
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: magnets

Postby grumpyvette » April 17th, 2015, 6:44 pm

allen wrote: Grumpy you obviously can,t stick magnets to an aluminum oil pan so how do you use magnets


theres several routes that most guys use in that aluminum oil pan application,
the most common is adding a magnetic oil pan plug and a large ring magnet to the base of the oil filter.

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.a ... SH&cat=167

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH
but keep in mind metallic debris will travel thru the oil pump gears BEFORE it ever enters the oil filter so the guys that rely on an oil filter magnet alone don,t fully appreciate the damage some small hard and nearly indestructible metallic crud like busted valve keepers or loose and broken roller rocker needle bearings can do to an engine.
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Shrapnel screens and magnets in the lifter gallery are a logical first line of defense.
a decent quality epoxy, LIKE J&B WELD will hold a magnet to the outside surface of each corner of the aluminum oil pan the magnetic field will still trap metallic crud inside the oil pan, but this means the oil pan must be removed to clean the trapped crud, if its first prepped with 180 grit sand paper in the attachment location and degreased with acetone, just be very sure its thermal characteristics and limitations have at least a 300F minimum threshold
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/specs.asp Image
SHOP CAREFULLY HEAT AFFECTS THE MAGNETS AND SOME DESIGNS ARE FAR MORE RESISTANT TO HEAT DAMAGE
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: magnets

Postby 87vette81big » April 17th, 2015, 8:12 pm

Yeah I had better of order 2 Dozen of those Magnets Grumpy.
As long as they don't fall off like you say they don't I will install them in my 455's.
Olds 425 engine too.
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