installing an oil pump pick-up tube



installing an oil pump pick-up tube

Postby grumpyvette » June 11th, 2009, 1:40 pm

there's two ways ,...... you can use the correct tool, which is ADVISABLE!
use this oil pump(link below) in most stock SBC builds, as it produces a 10% increase in oil volume and standard pressure which is just fine , but obviously check your bearing clearances and oil pump to oil pan floor clearances and braze the CORRECT MATCHING pick-up to the pump, and I,d also suggest if you have the room, for clearance that you look into one of the less expensive 7 quart baffled oil pans as they provide a good deal more potential protection and durability to your bearings longevity. be very sure you verify the oil pump pick-up to oil pan floor clearance, and braze the pick-up to the pump body.
yes theres less expensive oil pumps that will work, but thats a good value, in a well made pump.
WATCH VIDEO, get the oil pump pick-up to oil pan floor clearance correct and for darn sure braze or tig weld the pick-up to the pump once the clearance is verified
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_ZDWjPvDiA
first choice
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mel-10552/overview/ SBC
or
http://www.jegs.com/i/Melling/689/10778C/10002/-1 BBC

second choice
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-18750/overview/ SBC
related threads you should read
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2376

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=206&p=390#p390

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... pumps.aspx

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3536

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2005/us020516.htm

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/pdf/Oil_Pumps_106.pdf

http://www.milodon.com/oil-system/oil-pumps.asp

http://www.melling.com/Info/TechTipVideos.aspx
the idea that you can 'pump the pan dry" with a high volume oil pump, in a properly set up chevy engine has been proven false dozens of times, thats a myth that myth been repeated for decades and the reason its gained its supposed verification as fact is simply that guys install a high voluum oil pump in the same engine that they just removed a stock oil pump from and find that they reve the engine and the oil pressure starts to go up then tops out or even drops off , the instant and wrong conclusion drawn is that the high voluum oil pump sucked the oil pan dry, but what really happened in almost every case was a bit simpler.
high volume oil pumps have a longer body that moves the oil pump pick-up closer to the oil pan floor and if the clearance is not checked and corrected to maintain the required 3/8"-1/2" minimum clearance it severely restricts the flow into the oil pump and pressure drops of as a result of the restriction on the intake side of the oil pump pick-up.
this is a fairly easy to problem too prevent ,during assembly with careful measuring, and a bit of clay,to check clearance, before you braze the pick-up to the oil pump, especially if you braze a 1/2" nut to the lower surface of the oil pump pick up to prevent it from vibrating down close to the oil pan floor should it come loose and if you weld braces to prevent its movement after carefully measuring the correct clearance.
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ADDING A WELL DESIGNED WINDAGE SCREEN SPEEDS OIL RETURN SPEEDS . AND EFFICIENCY TO THE ENGINE SUMP
your typical small block oil pump has a 4 bolt cover, a 5/8" pick-up tube diameter and the pick-up presses into the cover , it has the smaller 7 tooth gears, and because the pick-up tube presses into the cover swapping from a standard to a high volume pump, with its longer impeller and hoseing casting, tends to move the pick-up about 1/4" closer to the oil pan floor

http://www.mellingselectperformance.com ... -Oil-Pumps

while your checking put some modeling clay under both pick-ups and see the effective clearance difference then see if the old pump clears the problem, in an ideal world the pick-up to pan floor clearance is a minimum of 3/8" and 1/2" is ideal

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OIL PUMP MODS
http://www.corvette-restoration.com/res ... ancing.htm

http://www.corvette-restoration.com/res ... lation.htm
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small block pumps have 7 tooth gears and 4 bolt covers and don,t provide the smooth oil flow rates the 12 tooth, and 5 bolt cover big block gear pumps provide
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big block vs small block chevy oil pump
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your typical small block oil pump has a 4 bolt cover, a 5/8" pick-up tube diameter and the pick-up presses into the cover , it has the smaller 7 tooth gears, and because the pick-up tube presses into the cover swapping from a standard to a high volume pump, with its longer impeller and hoseing casting, tends to move the pick-up about 1/4" closer to the oil pan floor
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your typical big block oil pump has a 5 bolt cover, a 3/4" pick-up tube diameter and the pick-up presses into the pump body , it has the larger more efficient 12 tooth gears and in many cases can be mounted on a small block, but its usually not required
BIG BLOCK CHEVY 5 BOLT cover pump
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SBC 4 BOLT COVER OIL PUMP
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SBC pumps have 7 tooth gears and BBC pumps generally have 12 tooth gears making the flow more consistent
MORE USEFUL INFO
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BE 100% SURE that the oil pump bolt or STUD doesn,t protrude past the inner main cap surface , because if it bears on the rear main bearing shell it will almost always result in a quickly failed rear bearing
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http://www.islandblue.com/store/product ... -ASSORTED/

TO FUNCTION CORRECTLY THE OIL PUMP PICK UP MUST BE MOUNTED AT BETWEEN 3/8" and 1/2" FROM THE OIL PAN FLOOR,CHECK CAREFULLY WITH CLAY and a DIAL CALIPER ,BEFORE BRAZING OR TIG WELDING THE PUMP PICK-UP TO THE PUMP BODY , ONE OF THE MOST COMMON MISTAKES IS INSTALLING A HIGH VOLUME OIL PUMP AND NOT CAREFULLY VERIFYING THE OIL PUMP PICK-UP TO OIL PAN FLOOR CLEARANCE IS IN TH 3/8"-1/2" RANGE WITH THE PAN INSTALLED OR FORGETTING TO BRAZE THE PICK-UP AND ADDING A BRACE TO KEEP IT FROM MOVING, FAILURE TO DO THAT CAN FREQUENTLY RESULT IN LOWER OIL PRESSURE AS THE RPMS INCREASE BECAUSE THE OIL PUMP CAN,T GET ENOUGH OIL INTO THE PUMP THRU THE RESTRICTED OPEN AREA BELOW THE OIL PUMP PICK-UP...FREQUENT WRONGLY DIAGNOSED AS THE PUMP, PUMPING THE PAN DRY, WHICH IS NOT THE CAUSE

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place the clay under the pick-up and temporarily mount the oil pan, then remove it and check the compressed clay, get this correct or youll have oil pressure and flow issues

THIS LOOKS like it might be exactly what I buy at my local miller welding supply dealer for brazing/silver soldering, oil pump pick-up tubes to oil pumps, I doubt youll have any issues using it for that application,
but the last time I purchased it it was priced at $6 a stick, or just over $107 for a pack of 20 sticks
and IM fairly sure it said #15 on the package...luckily you seldom require more than about 1/2 a stick to braze an oil pump pick-up onto an oil pump



http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/P ... lv-15.aspx

http://store.cyberweld.com/tubrrodsi15s ... productads

http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/P ... azing.aspx

and I have used a propane torch in the past but my ox-acetolene torch works much better

HARRIS AND VICTOR are the torch brands I prefer
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Ive always found the best results from keeping the low rpm pressure , in the 15psi-20psi at hot idle and no more than 65psi at high rpms,is really useful, the voluum required depends on the way the engines clearances and oil systems designed or modified ,voluum/viscosity/clearances in the approximately stock range works fine in most .
I like high voluum pumps but I certainly don,t use them IF the engines nearly stock as the standard Z28 SBC pump works fine
"the standard volume pump gears are about 1.2" long the high volume pump gears are about 1.5 inches long (depends on manufacturer)
heres the discriptions right from chevy

12555884
SBC Oil Pump, High Pressure Z28/LT1. Production high-pressure oil pump with 1.20" gears.Will produce 60-70 psi oil pressure. Does not include screen. The pickup tube dia. is 5/8" for this pump.
62.17


the true high voluum pumps like this below are not necessary UNTILL youve done extensive mods that require the expra oil flow voluum

14044872
SBC Oil Pump, High-Volume. This high-volume pump has1.50" long gears.It has approximately 25% more capacity than a production pump at standard pressure. Does not include screen."

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

keep in mind, most bbc pumps have 5 bolts in the cover and the pump body is where the pick-up tube installs
keep in mind, most sbc pumps have 4 bolts in the cover and the pump cover is where the pick-up tube installs

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Oil-Pump- ... GoogleBase

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOIhaI3e ... r_embedded

http://books.google.com/books?id=GUC52- ... t&resnum=3

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http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... index.html

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1948

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2194&p=5905#p5905

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2080

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1837

heres some decent designed oil pans for bbc and SBC, naturally you need to verify if they work in your application

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categoryd ... code=11330

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187
btw, Ive built SBC engine with standard oil pumps, and big block oil pumps, in the past, and while I have experience doing it both ways and setting engines up with clearances both on the tighter side of the range with the standard oil pumps and a bit looser with the 5 bolt big block pumps, theres a system that needs to be used , not just an oil pump you stick in an engine, generally if you opt to install the larger big block 5 bolt oil pump theres a reason, and you do mods that require the extra oil flow rates., things like larger auxiliary outside mount oil coolers,come to mind.
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or lets go the cheaper route,

you clamp the oil pump body minus the gears and base plate (which you remove temporarily) in a vise with the tube entrance facing vertically, and a short section of soft pine 2x4 under the pump body , if you support the pump body underneath with a section of soft wood 2 x 4 and cushion the vise jaws and clamped between two sections of 1/2" plywood to cushion the vice jaws you find a crows foot open end wrench, or the correct tool, that clamps to the pick-up, that slides over the oil pump pick-up tube but not over the ridge, in the tube that in theory prevents you from inserting the tube too deeply into the pump body. can be use to efficiently tap the tube into the pump body.
failure to use the wood as a vise jaw cushion, binding the drive shaft, marring the mount surface or over tightening the vise will sometimes damage the pump, so be cautious, use your common sense, and treat the pump as the fairly fragile piece of precision casting that it is!

be aware that some pick-ups will extent too far into the pump body if inserted up to the full depth so verify internal pump gear clearance and smooth function,before brazing the pick-up tube into place
use a 8" extension and the crows foot wrench and a rubber mallet to seat the pick-up tube into the pump body, then temporarily mount the oil pump and place a lump of modeling clay on the pick-up body lower surface and install the oil pan for a second to compress the clay giving you the distance between the oil pump pick-up and the oil pan floor, adjust it until the distance is approximately 3/8"-1/2"
once that distance is correct BRAZE the pickup to the pump body AFTER temporarily removing the bye-pass spring so it won,t get annealed, and its a very good idea to use the type of pick-up that has both the feed tube and the screened suction section braced to the pump body, so they don,t crack from vibration and metal fatigue.
Id also point out that a few of the oil pump pick up designs available , have tubes that can be pressed into the pump body far enough to contact the gears, if pounded into the pump to the swagged ring on the mount tube, it makes a good deal more sense to radias the exit port and insert the pick-up only to the point the exit tort radias reaches it and after careful measuring and removing the spring assembly to BRAZE the pick up to the pump body. It also helps to weld in a vibration brace.
LIKE THESE
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if you use a non-supported pick-up like this one below, its far more likely to break
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once that's done you clean lube and re-install the pump components and verify clearances, and the gears spin freely with out binding, don,t forget to use some MOLY assembly lube, or VASOLINE on the gears to assure it primes quickly.

BTW if you have a sudden drop in oil pressure on any engine with no other symptoms, you might want to replace the oil filter and check oil levels before you panic as its not uncommon for some brands of oil filters to fail internally

YOU NEVER want to bolt the pump body to the rear main cap and beat the pick-up into the pump body as that will result in un- acceptable stress on the cast pump body which CAN RESULT IN A TOTAL PUMP FAILURE

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=52&p=61&hilit=+braze#p61

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brazing the oil pump pick-up tube to the pump body after carefully checking clearances will usually prevent the oil pump pick-up from vibrating loose over time
BRAZING the pick-up to the pump is a good idea but remember to remove the pressure regulator valve first and oil and replace it after the pumps cooled


viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4306&p=11353#p11353

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOIhaI3e ... r_embedded

this is a factory produced hamberger oil pan but its a decent example of what can be fabricated
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TEL: (562) 921-0404
http://www.hamburgersperformance.com/

other options

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=206&p=242&hilit=+gasket+synthetic#p242

http://www.stefs.com/products/oilpans/supergascompstreetpans.htm

http://www.kevkoracing.com/wetsump_chevy.htm

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=11330
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: installing an oil pump pick-up tube

Postby grumpyvette » August 28th, 2009, 9:22 am

pick up designs

http://www.milodon.com/oil-system/pickups.asp

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categoryd ... code=12001

http://poske.com/detail_it.htm?groupid=179

http://www.stefs.com/products/oilpumppi ... alpump.htm


this is the more common SBC chevy design
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this is the more common BBC chevy design
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IVE used these aftermarket designs many times with zero problems, keep in mind BRAZING the pickup to the pump body is a good durability idea, and the pan you selected will limit your pick-up design choices.
just make sure its solidly brazed to the pickup port in the oil pump body even if its a bolt on design and that the pickup tube inside the pump does not extend in far enough to contact the pump gears as occasionally they do!


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keep in mind, most bbc pumps have 5 bolts in the cover and the pump body is where the pick-up tube installs
keep in mind, most sbc pumps have 4 bolts in the cover and the pump cover is where the pick-up tube installs


great!
now BRAZE the pick-up tube to the pump,at the correct clearance from the oil pan floor,(after temporarily removing the bye-pass spring to prevent its getting annealed) because engine vibrations WILL FREQUENTLY over time in most cases cause the pump pick-up to move, if its only press fit,and if you operate the engine at higher rpm levels ,if you don,t braze the pick-up.

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1948&p=5176&hilit=braze#p5176

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2194&p=5905&hilit=braze#p5905

brazing the oil pump pick-up tube to the pump body after carefully checking clearances will usually prevent the oil pump pick-up from vibrating loose over time

Ive always preferred stainless socket head cap screws, on the bolt on oil pump pick-ups with external bolts bottom plate bolts drilled for safety wire, or using LOCTITE on the threads
bolt on oil pump pick-ups are subject to a lot of vibration so you safety wire the bolts, and us LOCTITE on the threads, and a brace bolted or welded to the pick-up won,t hurt

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external locations need safety wire
http://www.whizwheels.com/Tips/safetywiring.html

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http://www.jegs.com/p/Milodon/Milodon-P ... 5/10002/-1

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if your serious about having a bolt holding something like an accessory, STARTER, Alternator, or bracket or u-joint strap etc. remain securely fastened , theres two steps you can take to assure it won,t come loose unless you want it too
step one
use a clean, and well degreased bolt and threads, and apply a decent thread locker to the threads, then torque them to the intended torque
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step two
USE DRILLED SAFETY WIRE LOCKS
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4306&p=26502&hilit=safety+wire#p26502

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if you use BOTH youll find bolts stay exactly where you left them

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=45341

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http://www.fastenersuperstore.com/store ... tage=step3

youll find these very helpful

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... word=allen

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=96645

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viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800&p=4597#p4597

it may be hard to believe but your oil pump pick-up if unsupported vibrates and tends to work loose, so brazing it in place and use of a support strap tends to help, but its not a 100% cure, install the pick-up wrong or use the wrong support and they can still occasionally break, failures like this one below are frequently the result if tapping the oil pump pick up into place with the tip of a screwdriver on the ridge on the pick-up tube, with a hammer rather than using the correct tool
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http://www.aa1car.com/library/us1097.htm

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manua ... tm#oil-low

pick-ups like this one below are less likely to break due to better support

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adding a brace and brazing it to the pick-up tube and use loc-tite on the bolt threads helps durability
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viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64&p=12398#p12398

If you have a drill press and welder its not at all difficult to fabricate a custom made oil pump pick-up security system brace from 16 ga sheet steel,or simply braze the pick-up to the pump and add one or more brace straps ,but measure and check carefully several times, especially if you have a custom made oil pan, just be sure to check clearances before doing more than tack welding the pick-up and braces because if what you fabricate looks great but won,t fit in your oil pan with the correct clearances your screwed.....yeah! don,t ask it was 40 plus years ago, but I still needed a new oil pump, after that screw up, so we all learn by forgetting to think and measure correctly at times
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EXAMPLES

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/23621/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/23620/10002/-1


in 40 plus years of building engines IVE NEVER seen a PROPERLY brazed and braced oil pump pick-up come loose, just remember to remove the spring and piston from the pressure regulating bye-pass and let the parts slowly air cool before lubricating and re-assembling the components.

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BRAZE ROD MELTS at well OVER 800F and done correctly has a tensile strength of 50,000 PLUS psi when used, on clean metal surfaces

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazing

http://www.weldguru.com/braze-cast-iron.html
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: installing an oil pump pick-up tube

Postby grumpyvette » September 30th, 2009, 6:48 pm


some related info you might want


http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/artic ... ?id=264303

http://www.ehow.com/how_4870148_install ... -pump.html

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1192&p=3397&hilit=+stud#p3397

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=459

http://www.ehow.com/how_4506329_replace ... vette.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... index.html

http://www.corvette-restoration.com/res ... lation.htm


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Look closely at this picture its quite common for a non-brazed oil pump pick-up to vibrate loose over time until like this one has obviously done, if the oil pump pick-up rotates down until it touches the oil pan floor,it almost always causes oil pressure and flow to be reduced, thats bad because in restricts oil flow into the oil pump and tends to increase bearing wear rates,bu iit can get even worse, it may take months or even years but if it vibrates down to touch the oil pan floor, theres a good chance that it will eventually vibrate loose and fall out of the pump casting, thats why brazing the pick-up to the pump body and using a brace that bolts to the pump increases durability.
the oil pump pick-up should remain parallel with the oil pan floor and at a distance of between 3/8" min to about 1/2" max to maintain maximum flow rates thru the oil pump
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: installing an oil pump pick-up tube

Postby grumpyvette » September 8th, 2011, 6:01 pm

have you ever dealt with anyone who has little or NO, experience with engines that asked you a strait question, and its very obvious that they just don,t understand the basics of how the system works?
well awhile back I helped a guy install an aftermarket 7 quart oil pan and high volume oil pump, on his otherwise stock corvette,
well he managed to over reve his engine and bust a push rod, we get that fixed and do a compression check, etc. and I suggest pulling the intake and if we don,t find the part we might need to pull the oil pan, because were missing a bit of the broken push rod, so he says," not to worry about it the oil filter will trap it if it makes its way down into the oil pan well before it reaches the oil pump"......I just stared at him for 30 seconds in total amazement
now if he had shrapnel screens and magnets it would be nearly impossible for random bits of metallic debris to get sucked into the oil pump, and in theory yes theres a screen preventing that, but the factory screens are well known for coming loose.
yes the chance of even a stock oil pump ingesting a bit of push-rod is low, but its also preventable so why take any chances

related threads

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=4480&p=11782&hilit=shrapnel#p11782

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187&p=5890&hilit=shrapnel#p5890

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265&hilit=shrapnel#p3265

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=206

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=4578&p=12188&hilit=+gasket+thick#p12188

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=672&p=929#p929
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: installing an oil pump pick-up tube

Postby grumpyvette » November 20th, 2011, 9:57 am

"Hey Grumpy,
Great info. I have a standard sbc OF installed. I have also installed a Lokar flexible dipstick. According to the reading on the stick, the pan is full. Pan is a B+B Drag Race 7QT. I would "guess" total capacity is around 7.5 QTS with filter. Could I diagnose an oil pick-up height problem by adding a QT or so. In the reading, a low or restricted pick up height clearance would cause the same problem and cause cavitation?
Thanks,
"

adding a quart will have little effect if the problem is the oil pump pick-up is too close to the oil pan floor, you need 3/8"-1/2 MINIMUM clearance, Id suggest verifying even if it required pulling the oil pan, but theres a simpler way, you can inspect thru the oil drain hole with the proper tool

http://www.tooltopia.com/provision-pv618.aspx

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3194&p=9385&hilit=tool+inspect+scope#p9385
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: installing an oil pump pick-up tube

Postby grumpyvette » May 29th, 2014, 11:16 am

mounting the oil pump to the rear main cap
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failure to use the correct oil pump,mounting stud, bolt or nut or carefully check clearances when mounting an oil pump can cause problems, AND THE HEIGHT OF THE MAIN CAPS AND OIL PUMP CASTINGS DO DIFFER, ESPECIALLY ON THE LATER BIG BLOCK VS THE EARLY BIG BLOCK COMPONENTS
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BE 100% SURE that the oil pump bolt or STUD doesn,t protrude past the inner main cap surface , because if it bears on the rear main bearing shell it will almost always result in a quickly failed rear bearing[/b
[b]ONE RATHER COMMON MISTAKE IS USING THE WRONG OIL PUMP STUD OR BOLT TO MOUNT THE OIL PUMP AS IF EITHER EXTENDS THRU THE REAR MAIN CAP SURFACE, IT CAN AND WILL BIND ON THE BEARING SHELL BACK SURFACE AND CAN LOCK OR RESTRICT, SMOOTH CRANK ROTATION.
STUDS ARE PREFERRED BECAUSE THEY GET THE THREADS THAT ENTER THE MAIN BEARING CAP COATED WITH THREAD LOCKER, LIQUID , THEN SCREWED IN TO THE MAIN CAP UNTIL THEY TOUCH THE BACK OF THE BEARING SHELL THEN BACKED OF 3/4 OF A TURN , THE OIL PUMP MOUNTED , AND THE WASHER AND FINE THREAD LOCKING NUT SECURED PER THE TORQUE SPECS.THIS INSURES THE STUD DOES NOT BEAR ON THE REAR BEARING SHELL , A BOLT WHEN TIGHTENED MUST BE TURNED DEEPER INTO THE THREADS IN THE REAR MAIN CAP, AND ITS MUCH HARDER TO PREVENT IT FROM BEARING OR CAUSING PRESSURE ON THE BACK OF THE BEARING SHELL IF ITS A BIT TOO LONG (A COMMON ISSUE, IN REBUILDS WHERE THE WRONG BOLTS USED.)


viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187&p=5890#p5890
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]yes the oil flows around the mounting stud,from oil pump to main cap to reach the engine oil passages, thru the oil filter
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just keep in mind that you'll need to very carefully blend and smooth and carefully clean,the edges of the beveled area where the oil port feeds the bearing surface with some 600 grit sand paper so the oil flows well and theres no edges to cause bearing wear issues or crud left from the process that would get embedded in the bearings.

Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: installing an oil pump pick-up tube

Postby 87vette81big » May 29th, 2014, 9:39 pm

I have never drilled & Roll pinned the Oil pump Drive gear to the shaft Grumpy.
Is it something you only do yourself to SBC & BBC ??
Or all popular V8 engines ?

Only old HO Racing recomended doing the same.
But they eliminated the intermediate oil pump driveshaft.
Custom machined a long 11" one piece shaft.
Pressed into the Melling M54 D Ram Air 4 60psi pump.
And the Melling M54F Ram Air 5 & SD455 80Psi oil pump.
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Re: installing an oil pump pick-up tube

Postby grumpyvette » May 29th, 2014, 10:02 pm

87vette81big wrote:I have never drilled & Roll pinned the Oil pump Drive gear to the shaft Grumpy.
Is it something you only do yourself to SBC & BBC ??
I THINK YOU MEANT TO PUT THAT QUESTION IN THIS THREAD
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187
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grumpyvette wrote:another mod, ILL TALK ABOUT BELOW, is to drill a 3/4" deep hole, about 1/8" in diameter so about halve of the drilled hole is along the drive shaft wall and about 1/2 is in the gear wall, along the wall of the hole wall where the drive shaft is force fit into the gear, then tap in a roll in of the correct size, this insure the shaft cant spin inside the gear, and cause a huge loss in oil pressure.
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is usually done on race engines especially road race engines, where you can expect prolonged higher rpm running, its done for increased durability, as under constant high heat and loads gears did occasionally slip on the driven shaft they were press fit on.

Or all popular V8 engines ?

Only old HO Racing recommended doing the same.
But they eliminated the intermediate oil pump driveshaft.
Custom machined a long 11" one piece shaft.
Pressed into the Melling M54 D Ram Air 4 60psi pump.
And the Melling M54F Ram Air 5 & SD455 80Psi oil pump.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: installing an oil pump pick-up tube

Postby grumpyvette » May 29th, 2014, 10:09 pm

87vette81big wrote:I have never drilled & Roll pinned the Oil pump Drive gear to the shaft Grumpy.
Is it something you only do yourself to SBC & BBC ??
I THINK YOU MEANT TO PUT THAT QUESTION IN THIS THREAD
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187
[b][color=#008000]
grumpyvette wrote:another mod, ILL TALK ABOUT BELOW, is to drill a 3/4" deep hole, about 1/8" in diameter so about halve of the drilled hole is along the drive shaft wall and about 1/2 is in the gear wall, along the wall of the hole wall where the drive shaft is force fit into the gear, then tap in a roll in of the correct size, this insure the shaft cant spin inside the gear, and cause a huge loss in oil pressure.
Image
Image
Image[/color][/b]

pinning the driven gear,is usually done on race engines especially road race engines, where you can expect prolonged higher rpm running, its done for increased durability, as under constant high heat and loads gears did occasionally slip or spin on the driven shaft they were press fit on, remember one gears driving the other , ones being spun by the distributor drive gears the other spins and coasts on a axle shaft it simply rotates on, as its teeth mesh with the driven gear, if that driven shaft slips inside the driven gear which can happen if crap like a needle bearing from a roller rocker gets sucked into the pump gears, and jam,s the teeth momentarily , the driven gears spin loose and you get zero oil pressure, roll pin the gears and it might scar the teeth but you still maintain oil pressure and it chews up the minor metallic debris and passes it to the oil filter.

Or all popular V8 engines ?

Only old HO Racing recommended doing the same.
But they eliminated the intermediate oil pump driveshaft.
Custom machined a long 11" one piece shaft.
Pressed into the Melling M54 D Ram Air 4 60psi pump.
And the Melling M54F Ram Air 5 & SD455 80Psi oil pump.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Posts: 14105
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Location: florida

Re: installing an oil pump pick-up tube

Postby 87vette81big » May 29th, 2014, 10:17 pm

No its not done to any Race engines here in Illinois.
The idea has Merit.
Must be an Old NASCAR Trick taught to You.
My Pontiac Engines have 120-130 psi cold oil pressure at 2,600 RPM During warmup.
Long duration cams used so I keep my foot oncthe gas steady to warmup for 1st 4-5 minutes.
Hot pressure is 100psi.
At 950Rpm idle 40-45 psi Hot.
2,000 is 80psi.
Casterole 10w30 oil.
Melling M54F pump.
Custom oiling mods of my own.
Never slipped the Driven gear on the shaft yet.

Ford 5.0 guys in Joliet Renegade have 140-150psi Hot.
They turn insane RPMS. 8-9k.
Must have they tell me to live.
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