oil system mods that help



oil system mods that help

Postby grumpyvette » September 29th, 2009, 9:24 am

heres a short list
REMEMBER the object or goal in building and maintaining the lubrication system is too maintain a 100% dependable pressurized cooling flow of lubricant to the bearings, rockers,valves etc.
obviously use of a high quality synthetic oil that has a higher heat tolerance and that tends to break down slower and a decent quality oil filter are the first steps, and having a decent 7-8 quart baffled oil pan and the correct bearings will help a great deal, Ive generally preferred to use CLEVITE (H) style bearings as Ive found they work well in most high stress applications
(1)drill the front pass side lifter gallery oil passage plug with a .035 drill so it sprays oil on the rear of the timing chain gear and chain
if its a .035-.039 hole it will provide a bit extra lubrication without causing a problem with your oil pressure, just be aware of that drill size, basically a 1/32"-#72 drill, so use a drill press and take your time those bits are easy to break

BTW if you soak a new timing chain and gears in a pan , covering them in a mix of synthetic oil and moly assembly lube and heat them to about 220 degrees to allow the oil to penetrate into the metals pores it will tend to pre-lubricate the chain and gears more effectively than just installing them dry, and from what Ive seen they last slightly longer, a cheap tin pan can be used, and if you don,t have an IR temp gun(you really should get one) adding a 1/4 teaspoon of water to the oil and watching it boil off as an indicator that the oils up to temp is a good idea, as you don,t want to over heat the oil or smoke up the kitchen
Ive always found the best results from keeping the low rpm pressure , in the 15psi-20psi at hot idle and no more than 65psi at high rpms,is really useful, the voluum required depends on the way the engines clearances and oil systems designed or modified ,voluum/viscosity/clearances in the approximately stock range works fine in most .
I like high voluum pumps but I certainly don,t use them IF the engines nearly stock as the standard Z28 SBC pump works fine
"the standard volume pump gears are about 1.2" long the high volume pump gears are about 1.5 inches long (depends on manufacturer)
heres the descriptions right from chevy

READ THE RELATED LINKED INFO

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3536

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

12555884
SBC Oil Pump, High Pressure Z28/LT1. Production high-pressure oil pump with 1.20" gears.Will produce 60-70 psi oil pressure. Does not include screen. The pickup tube dia. is 5/8" for this pump.
62.17


the true high voluum pumps like this below are not necessary UNTILL youve done extensive mods that require the expra oil flow voluum

14044872
SBC Oil Pump, High-Volume. This high-volume pump has1.50" long gears.It has approximately 25% more capacity than a production pump at standard pressure. Does not include screen."


BTW if your building a big block chevy engine, Big blocks have a tendency to trap air in the front of the oil passages feeding the lifters, which causes a rocker tap on start up. Because of this, there is a recessed Allen head oil galley plug behind the timing gear on the drivers side that has a hole drilled into it. This hole bleeds off air trapped in the front of the oil galley, and it also lubricates the back of the timing gear. This was a stock-from-the-factory modification to the oil galley, on some bbc engines.
removal of the drilled oil passage plug with a solid galley plug (a BAD idea) or if a piece of trash or silicone in the oil passage that managed to block this galley plug,will usually result in lifter noise and lack of oil flow for a few minutes that can cause wear on the cam and lifters. its suggested one of the plugs get drilled ,drill the lifter gallery plug with a #72-1/32" drill to prevent this

http://www.jegs.com/i/Crower/258/66900X ... tId=993883
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be sure not to insert oil passage plugs into oil gallery passages too deeply
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threading the oil passage plugs increases durability and I generally suggest drilling an oil pray jet hole thats .031-.035 in the pass side oil pass plug, THE ONE AS YET UN THREADED IN THE PICTURE ABOVE
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keep in mind that as oil temps increase the oil viscosity tends to decrease, thus cold oil, at lets say 70F might cause the oil pressure gauge to read 50 psi at idle but the pressure reading slowly goes down to 25 psi once the oils reached lets say 210F, this is normal and expected
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watch this video

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-10990/?rtype=4

read these links

http://www.milodon.com/oil-system/oil-pumps.asp

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=150#p150

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=6255&p=19681#p19681

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2080&p=5568&hilit=longer+filter#p5568

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1170

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265#p3265

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... ngine.aspx

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=6491&hilit=valve+spring+cooling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f2fcbTh5yw

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=10388&p=42973#p42973

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... ology.aspx
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=251&p=7986&hilit=+shiming+distributor#p7986

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1186&p=4155&hilit=distrib+gears#p4155

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=123&p=153&hilit=groove+distributor#p153

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=57&p=70&hilit=groove+distributor#p70
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Cam gear or distributor gear wear is usually NOT caused by the high volume pump itself, but by insufficient internal engine running clearances.

THE CAM MANUFACTURER WILL BE ONLY TOO GLAD TO SELL THE CORRECT MATCHING DISTRIBUTOR GEAR TOO YOU
and like a lifter on a cam lobe it is usually going to last longer if both the cam and distributor gear are new, coated with moly assembly grease and allowed to lap in and mate surfaces , rather than use used worn distributor gears on new cams



viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187&p=5890#p5890

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1701&p=4179&hilit=bronze+distributor+gear#p4179

Chevy V-8's, small block, big block, and 90? V-6 engines, all use splash lubrication to oil the distributor gear. Although higher RPM operation provides sufficient lubrication to prevent wear, low speed use can be a problem. The situation can become critical if a high volume oil pump is used. The high volume oil pump was developed for engines where bearing clearances were increased over stock. These work fine in racing engine applications, where extra clearance is provided in the short-block.

However, when a high volume oil pump is used in an engine with stock internal clearances, the increased volume of oil can't flow through the engine fast enough to relieve the back pressure created. This places an increased load on the distributor gear, and leads to accelerated wear.

Once the gear on either an 8620 steel cam or a cast iron cam is worn excessively, the cam itself must be scrapped! There is no repair for this problem, and the only option is to buy a new cam. To eliminate this annoying and expensive problem, we offer a simple, do-it-yourself way to help oil the distributor gear and reduce this accelerated wear in Chevy V-8 and 90? V-6 engines.

On these engines, the lower portion of the distributor housing drops through the oil gallery that supplies oil to the lifters on the passenger side of the engine. Two rings at the bottom of the distributor housing seal the top and bottom of this galley. Oil flows around the distributor, between the two rings.

Solving distributor gear wear is as simple as filing or machining a .030" groove in the bottom ring of the distributor housing. A three cornered file can also be used.

The distributor housing should be grooved in any engine operated for extended periods at low engine RPM. With the distributor installed in the engine - ready to run - the groove should face TOWARDS THE CAMSHAFT. This will provide a reasonable flow of oil to lubricate and cool the distributor gear and cam gear as they operate.

Remember to keep the groove facing the camshaft, and be sure to use the correct Crane high silicon, copper alloy distributor gear for best results.
Its smart to file a small groove in the lower distributor so oil spray from the oil passage constantly lubricates the distributor gear to cam gar contact point

you might find reading these threads above interesting

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ADDING A WELL DESIGNED WINDAGE SCREEN SPEEDS OIL RETURN SPEEDS . AND EFFICIENCY TO THE ENGINE SUMP
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Its smart to file a small groove in the lower distributor , or the block so oil spray from the oil passage constantly lubricates the distributor gear to cam gar contact point
(2)groove the lower 1/3rd of the lifter bores with a comp cams lifter bore tool
(3)braze the oil pump pickup so its locked at 1/2" off the pan floor after careful measurements are taken
(4)groove the lower block where the distributor lower band seats in line with the cam gear to provide extra oil to that gear
(5)use a windage screen mounted 1/8" from the outer arc of the rotating assembly
(6)us a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan, and a high flow oil cooler with a separate electrical fan sure helps in some applications
(7) after, clearance checks carefully install , 6 magnets, two in the rear of each cylinder head,(one per head) two near the lifter gallery oil drain back holes and in the 4 corners of the oil pan sump
(8) if using a flat tappet solid lifter cam use the crower PREMIUM lifters with the hardened/polished bases and .020 EDM oil spray hole in the base, and a hardened PREMIUM cam core
(9) If you require a high volume oil pump use a 5 bolt big block design, with a 3/4" pick-up as they tend to run smoother
(10) if you've got the clearance use the longer high capacity oil filters

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yes you can groove the lifter bore walls to provide greater oil flow to the cam lobes and lifter base contact area,but read the instructions ! the tool comes with instructions, but keep in mind that you want to do is just increase oil flow rates not destroy a block, the grooves you cut are barely noticeable, only on the lower 1/3rd of the lifter bore and only about 5 -10 thousands deep, and just provide a bit more oil flow to the cam lobes
I lent that tool out to one friend that cut grooves far too deep effectively ruining a block
you can also just sand a flat spot on the lower 1/3rd of the lifter body with 600 grit sand paper on a sheet of glass this will also increase oil flow but remember the lifter spins in the bore so the groove supplies a steady stream of oil the flat spot throws a rapidly pulse flow

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viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5734&p=17492#p17492
or if your into serious mods

you might find these threads and sub linked info useful

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187&p=5890#p5890

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5734&p=17492&hilit=heat+chain+moly#p17492

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... pumps.aspx

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viewtopic.php?f=54&t=8463&p=29691#p29691

lifters with oil feed grooves
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I suppose you could do these oil feed mods and groove the lower lifter bores and distributor gear oil feed groove,while you used a strong vacuum cleaner and magnets to limit the metallic debris ,on a partially assembled engine, but Ive never tried it, I do the minor machine work to a clean bare block even before the cam bearings are installed and carefully clean it, and all the oil passages with a rifle bore brush high pressure air and solvents, several times before installing the cam bearings, I generally prefer to start with the block on an engine stand that I can rotate easily for full access.
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keep in mind the distributor base forms one wall of the lifter gallery oil passage
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so grooving the lower oil band directly above the point where the gears start to mesh helps spray extra oil on the distributor/cam gears contact area, and yes that changes with distributor position so most guys cut a small fine groove in both the lower block wall and the distributor lower section above that location to assure a constant oil mist spray into the meshing gears

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The distributor mount hole through the block is at an angle, and the pad where it locks down is cast and machined at a slight angle, after all, the cam shaft center line is DEAD CENTER,in the block and the distributor gear is riding ,with its gear teeth meshed to the side of it. The dist fits fairly tight to the block, since it completes the oil passage in the block to the pass side lifters,but that means the distributor leans just a bit from true vertical , so if you do notice that, its normal, and correct.


THESE LINKS ARE WORTH READING THRU
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3834

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64

http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ScreenInstall.pdf

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/baffle.htm

http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ScreenInstall.pdf

http://prestoliteweb.com/Portals/0/down ... 61_all.pdf

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1280&p=2741#p2741
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one more potential possible source of metallic debris that could provide the cause of the cylinder bore damage
now if your building an engine you GOING TO DO FREQUENT OIL CHANGES ON AND NEVER LET SLUDGE BUILD UP...you can probably limit that potential valve train shrapnel screens and magnets that trap small destructive crud
shrapnel screens epoxied into the block to prevent valve train failure shrapnel from inducing bearing failure if crap gets sucked into the oil pump is a good idea IF you do frequent oil changes so the screens won,t get sledged up
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THE SCREEN ABOVE IS CLOSE TO BEING IDEAL
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THE SCREEN ABOVE IS TOO SMALL TO BE IDEAL
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I generally use, and advise the use of stainless 6 or 8 mesh screens.
theres lots of options that will work just fine, just remember to keep the oil changed regularly or theres some potential for sludge to clog ANY size shrapnel screens

http://www.twpinc.com/twpinc/products/T ... 6T0350W36T
http://www.twpinc.com/twpinc/products/T ... 8S0280W36T

IVE typically used these magnets in an engine, one in the rear oil drain on each cylinder head, one near each lifter gallery drain and 4 in the oil pan sump

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http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH

THIS is a good example of what happens to bearings if the oil passages are allowed to push small metallic debris, from wear like rockers,valve tips,cam and lifter wear thru the engine, use of a few small magnets, and shrapnel screens helps reduce or eliminate this

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viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265&hilit=screens#p3265

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D66SH

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=867&hilit=screens+magnets#p867

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=57&p=70#p70

a high volume oil pump is generally only required if you've done extensive engine mods requiring increased oil flow rates, and ITS use requires a 6-8 qt baffled oil pan and a windage screen to operate correctly, pressure is a measure or resistance to flow, if you've done the mods to increase the flow rates like larger bearing clearances and lifter bore mods then a high volume pump makes sense and the load rates to run it drop significantly, youll generally want to run bearing clearances on the loose side of factory specs with a high volume oil pump and run an oil viscosity that allows you to maintain a minimum of 15psi and a maximum of about 25 psi of oil pressure once the oil temp reaches about 200F at idle rpms

your NOT required to used mobile one oil, most of the name brand oils with the manufacturer suggested viscosity range and API rating
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will work reasonably well and not void your warranty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

http://micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=6445

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1334

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2102&hilit=+synthetic

THESE THREADS, and SUB LINKS HOLD MUCH MORE INFO
BTW if you have a sudden drop in oil pressure on any engine with no other symptoms, you might want to replace the oil filter and check oil levels before you panic as its not uncommon for some brands of oil filters to fail internally

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=57&p=70#p70

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1186&p=2440&hilit=distributor+gear#p2440

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viewtopic.php?f=54&t=52

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=615

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... index.html

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1334&p=2910#p2910

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1489&p=5560&hilit=lifter#p5560

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2102

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64&p=77#p77

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265#p3265

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2080

http://www.circletrack.com/nls/76818/index.html

http://www.mellingengine.com/TechnicalS ... etins.aspx

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=88&p=5709&hilit=bearings#p5709

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=296

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=150&p=5335&hilit=+bearings#p5335

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/article.php ... ad&A_id=64

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=525&p=650#p650

obviously these won,t fit all chevy applications but if you have the room for the longer, spin on filters

The "longer high capacity oil filter" Purolator is L40084.

"longer high capacity oil filter" N.A.P.A: # 1794

"longer high capacity oil filter" ACDelco: PF932

you gentlemen, might want to keep in mind ALL oils are designed to carry heat, from the bearings and combustion process generated crud to the filter , and all oil slowly gets filled with micro crud,soot, acids and breaks down from heat and moisture contamination,over time, oil is cheap compared to major engine failures from lubricated parts failure. and while the newer synthetics are far better, than the older oils, its been my experience that keeping any synthetic oil over about 15,000-18,000 miles between changes even with frequent filter changes is probably a bad idea.
obviously the operational conditions, heat levels and stress levels should be taken into consideration.
now you certainly don,t need to change oil every 3500 miles like has in the past been suggested with the older generation oils. but changing oil every 7,000-8,000 miles certainly won,t be hurting much, and if you want to use the better oils over about 15,000-18,000 miles between changes even with frequent filter changes, thats certainly not likely to cause major issues and changing oil filters every 3500,-4000 mile can,t hurt either
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radias and smooth the oil pump gallery feed
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notice the welded tabs bracing the oil pump pick-up and that big block pumps have 5 cover screws unlike the small block pump with its 4 screw cover
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"How to Hot Rod Big Block Chevrolets" and it is recommended to "add groves to your stock pump to get full load-balancing benefits for both the drive and idler gears" (page 113)
http://www.corvette-restoration.com/res ... ancing.htm
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MORE USEFUL INFO
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yes the oil flows around the mounting stud,from oil pump to main cap to reach the engine oil passages, thru the oil filter
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failure to use the correct oil pump,mounting stud, bolt or nut or carefully check clearances when mounting an oil pump can cause problems
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ONE RATHER COMMON MISTAKE IS USING THE WRONG OIL PUMP STUD OR BOLT TO MOUNT THE OIL PUMP AS IF EITHER EXTENDS THRU THE REAR MAIN CAP IT CAN AND WILL BIND ON THE BEARING AND LOCK OR RESTRICT, SMOOTH ROTATION
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be sure to verify the oil pump drive shaft won,t binds and has proper clearance
Ive done that mod on several of my BBC oil pumps based on what Id read in that exact book, back in the 1970s, figuring the guys who wrote it knew more than I did, when it first was published, and found it did tend to make the oil pressure a bit more consistent, but that could be because it will cause some minor oil pressure flow leaking back under the spinning gears. it could also be that its no longer a required mod, why?
because some oil pumps already come that way, if you look inside


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some moroso pumps come pre machined that way
HERES SOME MODS RECOMMENDED TO THE OIL PUMP
moroso, summit racing etc. sells plug kits

the melling 10990 pump is generally a good choice on a high performance sbc
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-10990/
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that .032--.039 hole in the pass side oil passage plug will be Just fine !
the object off drilling the tiny hole for those that don,t know is two fold, first it prevent trapped air in the oil passage from slowing oil reaching the lifters as trapped air is bled off rapidly, secondly it provides a constant flow of extra lube flowing to the chain cam drive even at low rpms

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a small hole .032--.039 intersecting the oil feed passage to provide pressurized oil to the rear of the timing gear won,t hurt, and tends to reduce block wear

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=11063&p=49185#p49185

LOOK CLOSELY THE LEFT LIFTER GALLERY PLUGS DRILLED TO SPRAY OIL

http://www.harborfreight.com/60-piece-t ... 34627.html
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you can get a cheap but semi-functional brill bit selection here, and it certainly helps to have a caliper handy

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-dia ... 66541.html

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drill at least the left oil passage plug with a .025-.031 drill to supply the cam gears with extra oil flow, on a race engine with a high voluum oil pump, and a 7-9 quart oil pan, its a good idea to drill both the center and left plugs as it speeds oil flow reaching the lifters and prevents air being compressed in the passages slowing oil reaching the lifter and cam lobes.
but the main benefit is a constant bath of oil flowing between the rear of the timing sets cam gear and the block, which tends to protect the block surface, and provide extra lube to the timing set.

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having a REV-KIT that retains the lifters in their bores, to maintain oil pressure, even if the rocker comes loose or push rods breaks is a good idea
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any time you go to install new cam bearings in an engine you first take detailed notes and a few pictures of the OLD cam bearing in the block under good lighting to note the location of the oil feed holes and and grooves, then as they are removed you number them each as its removed and measure them as on many engine they are NOT INTERCHANGEABLE between all main cap locations

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25050 Lifter Valley Oil Baffle, Small Block Chevy, including 18° heads Only $33.99
http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/25050/10002/-1
* Increases horsepower by shielding bottom of intake manifold from hot oil
* Keeps surplus oil out of valve covers by eliminating oil splash
* Maintains oil pressure during pushrod or rocker arm failure by keeping lifters in their bores (except with roller cam)
* Due to slight variation in blocks, the baffle may have to be trimmed .060 - .100" before it will "snap" into place
* Cannot be used with roller lifters

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keep in mind the sbc oil pump has 7 tooth gears and the big block pumps have 12 teeth making the oil flow smoother and less pulsed, plus having larger gears they tend to supply more oil at lower rpms
look closely and youll see the big block oil pump has a 5 bolt lower cover and the oil pump pick-up with its 3/4" feed seats into the main pump casting while the small block oil pump has a 4 bolt cover and the sbc oil pump pick-up with its 5/8" feed seats into the pumps cover plate

those holes in the back end of the last cam bearing journal on the cam core are there to prevent oil pressure build up behind the cam which could cause the expansion plug in the rear of the block to blow out

you may want to think about installing an accumulator, its a device thats easily added that holds a couple quarts of oil under pressure that insures positive oil pressure

http://www.moroso.com/articles/articledisplay2.asp?article=AboutAccumulator.html&catcode=13600

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1280&p=6082&hilit=accumulator#p6082
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=5423&p=16167#p16167
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4419&p=11685&hilit=+hole+feed+crank#p11685

,its USUALLY not really about the amount of oil as much as controlling the rapid return of oil to the sump so its constantly covering the oil pump pick-up.
just some info, you might need,
depending on the oil pump used, rpms and clearances a chevy V8 will generally push some where between 2 and 6 gallons a minute thru the oil passages, your average oil pan sump holds at most 3 quarts ,while the engines running, and theres generally about 2 or a bit more quarts in the upper engine, (lifter gallery, heads)while the engines running, so when you induce high inertial loads is common for the oil pump pick up to become uncovered even in a baffled oil pan for a few seconds as that 2-3 quarts in the sump slams forward and back in the sump, because remember , lets say your engines only pumping 3 gallons a minute, and theres got to be at least 2 quarts in the sump to keep the oil pump pick-up covered under high inertial loads, its only going to take a few seconds at most under those conditions to suck air into the oil pump. obviously having a baffled 7-8 quart oil pan has advantages under those conditions as theres a good deal larger (SAFETY MARGIN) in the amount of oil present over the oil pump pick-up is you use the higher capacity BAFFLED oil pan with its better oil control and larger sump capacity,, windage screen combo

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in some applications adding an oil accumulators a good idea
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viewtopic.php?f=54&t=615

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187
for the BBC guys
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http://www.cartechbooks.com/vstore/show ... apter=7587
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viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=150&hilit=magnets#p150

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=117

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3834&p=10199&hilit=shrapnel#p10199

http://www.carbideselect.com/burshpescuts.php

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265&hilit=shrapnel#p3265
DART BLOCKS HAVE A DIFFERENT OIL ROUTE
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just keep in mind that you'll need to very carefully blend and smooth and carefully clean,the edges of the beveled area where the oil port feeds the bearing surface with some 600 grit sand paper so the oil flows well and theres no edges to cause bearing wear issues or crud left from the process that would get embedded in the bearings.

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watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... dEFGJqpCMY
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby grumpyvette » November 4th, 2009, 10:50 am

Id also point out that they make solid lifters with small oil spray holes in their base that will do the same thing, or add to the lower lifter bore groove oil flow rates with zero machine work,being done to the block.
ID also point out that some of the better distributors with o-ring grooves have a small oil hole drilled between the o-rings that allows a steady stream of pressurized oil to enter the lower distributor shaft, the upper bearing is sealed so oil can,t exit into the upper distributor, but oil is routed to lube the lower bearing in the distributor, the oil exits to spray over the cam gear/distributor gear contact area, look closely at yours
BTW its generally a good idea to pack the gears in any new oil pump with a 50%/50% mixed tablespoon of Valvoline and assembly lube as the slimy lube mix on the gears surface helps to seal clearances and increase the pumps suction on first starting the engine or priming the engine with the priming tool, and its washed out and disperses within a few seconds but it makes the engine far easier to prime

[b]BTW HERES AN IMPORTANT TIP, IF YOUR INSTALLING A REMOTE OIL COOLER, IT is really common for guys to use lines that are far to small, that restrict flow oil flow or select a transmission or oil cooler that has to small of internal passages, shop carefully you want a MINIMUM of 1/2, or AN8 line size and 5/8" or AN10 is BETTER.
[b]many guys don,t realize that adding an oil and/or a transmission fluid cooler, with its own fan and radiator that allows those liquids to be cooled separately, to your engine and drive train, significantly reduces the heat load on the radiator, and generally allows the engine temps to decline noticeably. in fact just adding a high volume oil pan and a transmission cooler can drop your engine coolant temps 20F-30F in many cases

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a rather common issue with adding oil coolers, is that many of the coolers available can significantly restrict fluid flow because of the small restrictive internal cross section of the internal tubing, AN #6 and 3/8" tube coolers can be quite restrictive, the AN#8 are better but DUAL AN#8 coolers and AN#10 lines generally work the best, and there's also frequently limited space to position a cooler in the outside cool air flow mandating a powered fans.
the solution to both issues can and frequently does require use of two different oil coolers but placed in series this can further increase flow restrictions, the solution is in use of larger internal cross sectional area,transfer lines and mounting the twin coolers in parallel thus doubling the effective cross sectional area reducing the flow restriction the cooler potentially could produce if used in series

think about it, your measuring the oil pressure in most cases AFTER its been thru the cooler and returned to the oil passages in the block, oil leaves the oil pump and its routed to the oil filter where the oil filter adapter routes it thru the oil cooler and back to the adapter then into the block, your measuring the restricted oil flow after its returned to the block, if the lines or cooler passages restrict oil flow its potentially a problem for lubrication of the moving parts if pressure or oil volumes reduced
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[/b][/color]
http://www.crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml

COOLFACE SOLID LIFTER pg 141

and you can place a standard solid lifter on a sheet of 600 grit wet sand paper, placed on a sheet of glass and quickly sand a small flat surface along the lower side that will allow increased oil flow, just be very careful to leave no burrs or rough areas that might reduce the lifters ability to spin in its bore and a 5-7 thousand deep flat is plenty

one of the very best mods you can add to a car is a well designed high capacity baffled oil pan,but
before you spend money on that oil pan, carefully measure the current oil pans depth, and side clearance to headers and the starter,frame, oil filter etc. and look at the current oil pans road clearance them get a block of Styrofoam thick enough to simulate the new potential pan depth and tape it to the bottom of the current oil pans sump, have two of your heavier friends sit in the car and then you get out and carefully inspect the road to oil pan depth/clearance, if its less than 4" Id suggest looking for a shallower 7-8 qt design, or if your a decent fabricator and have a welder you can use cardboard and tape to make a pattern and modify your current oil pan, adding an oil cooler and remote oil filter is at times a great idea.
ask the oil pan manufacturer if the pan your thinking about purchasing will fit your frame, and application, and ask about header and starter clearance issues
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theres also the option of using an accumulator.
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http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/cgi ... ey=15-240M

http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/road-race-oil-pans.asp

http://www.stefs.com/products.html

http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/or ... R&line=WYS

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=6491

http://www.hamburgersperformance.com/mycars/default.asp

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=176

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categoryd ... code=11929

allowing for extra oil spraying onto the timing chain assembly by drilling small holes in the forward oil passage plugs is an old engine builders mod that even the factory in some rare cases used.
its simply a reasonable way to get extra lubricant to the timing chain assembly, which because its spinning tends to throw off oil rapidly so its in constant need of more oil flow. its designed to get most of its oil in the form of a constant oil fog in the crank case,generated by the spinning rotating assembly and theres a larger upper hole in the block wall and the oil pan forward section that allows oil to slosh onto the timing chain when you hit the brakes, but unless your running right up at the full mark on the dip stick that oil sloshing tends to be limited, so adding the hole to the oil passage forward plugs tends to help.
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viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1170

a number #65 or #66 drill is about correct

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1170&p=2396#p2396

CNC BLOCKS N/E posted this info


"
QUOTE
I have seen on all GM rear caps SBC & BBC we have found then to be restricted because of the casting hangs in past the oil port of the oil pump and we have seen some that have been block 60%

Take a oil pump cut it off like the one on the right.

The cap on the left has been opened up to match the oil pump.

The cap in the middle had been marked with a marker showing how much has to be removed.

The cap on the right you can look in the oil port and see the casting blocking the port.

Even on the after market blocks they some times have to be touched up.
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BTW HERES AN IMPORTANT TIP, IF YOUR INSTALLING A REMOTE OIL COOLER, IT is really common for guys to use lines that are far too small, that restrict flow oil flow or select a transmission or oil cooler that has to small of internal passages, shop carefully you want a MINIMUM of 1/2, or AN8 line size and 5/8" or AN10 is BETTER.
[b]many guys don,t realize that adding an oil and/or a transmission fluid cooler, with its own fan and radiator that allows those liquids to be cooled separately, to your engine and drive train, significantly reduces the heat load on the radiator, and generally allows the engine temps to decline noticeably. in fact just adding a high volume oil pan and a transmission cooler can drop your engine coolant temps 20F-30F in many cases

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heres one way to hook up cooler lines in tight places

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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-15875/

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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby grumpyvette » January 24th, 2010, 9:29 am

these oils tested the best, Id strongly suggest the Valvoline racing oils as the best value
obviously the quality of the oil used is critical, these oils tested the best

10W30 Lucas Racing Only, full synthetic = 106,505 psi
zinc = 2642 ppm
phos = 3489 ppm
moly = 1764 ppm


10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi
zinc = 1669 ppm
phos = 1518 ppm
moly = 784 ppm


10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phos = 1544 ppm


10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
zinc = 1180 ppm
phos = 1112 ppm
moly = 162 ppm


30 wt Red Line Race Oil, full synthetic = 96,470 psi
zinc = 2207 ppm
phos = 2052 ppm
moly = 1235 ppm


10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil, full synthetic = 95,360 psi
zinc = 1431 ppm
phos = 1441 ppm
moly = 52 ppm


10W30 Quaker State Defy, API SL (semi-synthetic) = 90,226 psi
zinc = 1221 ppm
phos = 955 ppm
moly = 99 ppm


READ THRU THESE LINKS
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=4793&p=13024#p13024

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=456&p=560&hilit=zddp#p560

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=282&p=345&hilit=zddp#p345

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=150&hilit=zddp#p150

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1057

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IF your experiencing excessive distributor gear wear,theres several likely reasons and the most likely is a combo of less than ideal lubrication flow and a material in-compatibility between the cam and distributor gears, add the extra drag the oil pump is likely to produce after ingesting metallic crap from the gear wear..well...Id sure take a strong light and look down the distributor hole at the cam gear and hopefully its NOT similarly worn.
some roller cams came with steel gears that require a bronze alloy distributor gear, if your experiencing that wear Id suggest inspecting the oil pump also as theres a good chance its damaged, due to the crud its ingested.
a tool like this should have let you now months ago something was wrong

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=938

cutting a groove in your lower distributor oil band in-line with the beginning contact point between the gears meshing will provide extra oil flow to the gears but having compatible materials and clearances will be critical, cutting a similar small groove in the block to route oil flow directly into the cam/distributor gear mesh area will also helpyour cam manufacturer will know the correct distributor gear material to use.
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From Sallee Chevrolet. http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/PriceLi ... 3.726.html

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... index.html

01103952 - Distributor, Late model HEI F/I, small cap. This complete distributor is used on late model V8 engines with fuel injection and computer controls. = 168.92 ( Does not say hardened gear or for roller cams )

01104060 - SBC Distributor Assembly, for Ram Jet 350. This complete distributor is used on the Ram Jet 350 port fuel injection engine. - 176.09 (RJ350 has a roller cam, but does not say this has hardened gear. so what is the diff. in this one and the one above? )

01104067 - HEI HO Distributor. This distributor has the melonized cam drive gear P/N 10456413 for steel roller camshafts. This distributor is required on all crate engines and roller camshafts that are made of steel. If engines are assembled not using this gear, it may affect your engine warranty. Use connector wire P/N 8917052 to ignition. Used with all small and big-block V8 High Output engine assemblies. Technical Notes: Components in these groups are interchangeable with small-block Chevrolet V8s. GM Performance Parts distributors cannot be used with "tall deck" Bow Tie block P/N 14044808. - 227.41 ( only one that says it's for roller cams, but this is a large cap HEI ).


10456413 - Distributor HEI Gear, large cap. You must use this gear with the new roller cams. This is a hardened gear. This distributor gear is used on all Chevrolet small and big-block engines, including steel roller camshaft engines. - 22.88

10469459 - Distributor HEI Gear, small cap. You must use this gear with the new roller cams. This is a hardened gear. Also fits some Mallory distributors. - 23.74
The bottom of a Chevrolet distributor housing can be and SHOULD BE! modified to spray pressurized oil onto the distributor drive gear. The extra lubrication will reduce distributor gear and camshaft gear wear. This is especially important when the gear is used to drive non-standard accessories, such as a high volume oil pump, or a magneto that puts additional loads on it and the cam. <P>When the distributor is installed, the bands at the bottom of the housing are designed to complete the internal right side lifter galley on all small and big block Chevrolet V-8’s and 90° V-6 engines. If you hand file a small vertical groove .030" wide x .030 that's the diam. that crane recommends Ive always used the larger .050 wide groove with no problems, deep on the bottom band (above the gear), pressurized oil running between the two bands will be directed downward onto both the gear and the cam This procedure is recommended for all Chevrolet engines no matter what material gear (cast or bronze) or what type of camshaft (cast or steel) you are using keep in mind the groove MUST be lined up with the cam gear when the distributor. is installed

IF the cam gear looks worn you'll need to replace the cam, or( if the gears a separate component get that replaced)( IT is on some billet cams btw)
BEFORE you go installing a new distributor gear or that will also wear at an accelerated rate
YOU must both match the correct gear materials and provide the correct lubrication, Id suggest two new gear surfaces, a good coat o MOLY assembly lube and cutting the lower distributor band for increased oil flow, ID also replace the oil pump.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-89027LUN/

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on Chevrolet engines, Crane recommends that a .030-inch-wide and .030-inch-deep groove be machined or filed into the bottom band on the distributor shaft as shown (arrow) to provide lubricant to the distributor gears. Place the groove on the distributor so that when timed properly, the groove will face the camshaft. With the distributor in this position, oil will spray both the distributor and the cam gear to significantly reduce gear wear. This trick can improve gear life for any type of camshaft. Ford engines have an oil passage plug that points directly at the distributor gear. A .025-inch hole can be drilled into the plug to lubricate these gears.
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BEVELS ON BLOCK DISTRIBUTOR MOUNTING HOLE GREATLY EXAGGERATED FOR CLARITY
if your distributor uses O-rings you should use at least the upper o-ring
[/b]



http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... index.html

moroso sells plug kits
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be sure only one oil passage plugs drilled, generally only the pass side oil passage plug with a single .025-.030 hole, many guys use a 1/32" drill bit because its easy to locate, I prefer the smaller #72 drill
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more than one guys added a powerful magnet on the pick-up to pull metallic crap out of the oil

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=150&hilit=+magnets#p150

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.a ... =RX054-N52
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=57&p=70#p70

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1186&p=2440&hilit=distributor+gear#p2440

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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PIO-PE100BR/
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-34033/?rtype=10
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1170&p=2396#p2396

brazing , silver solder or TIG welding will help prevent that pick-up from falling out as will welding on a vibration brace , as will some other precautions
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http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4306&p=11353&hilit=safety+wire#p11353

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800

READ THRU THIS LINK

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/ ... index.html
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http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/ ... index.html
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby grumpyvette » January 25th, 2010, 4:20 pm

BTW if your just looking to buy vs build a decent oil pan heres some sources

other sources

http://www.kevkoracing.com/

http://www.stefs.com/stefsindex.htm

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorybrowse.asp?CatCode=11000

http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/oil-pans-from-milodon.asp

http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/

http://www.daymotorsports.com/product/1289/SBC-MODIFIED-%26-STREET-STOCK-WET-SUMP-PANS

http://www.daymotorsports.com/product/1833/SB_CHEVY_CIRCLE_TRACK_6-1%3A%3A2%22_OIL_PAN

http://www.billetfab.com/pans.htm

http://www.bakerengineeringinc.com/ProCam.html#wetsump

http://www.drysump.com/index1.htm

Now the question always comes up, why do I need a high volume oil pump and 6-8 quart oil pan, the main reason youll use a high volume pump to begin with is to provide more volume of oil,at any given rpm,oil that cools the rings, rockers, bearings,that are being stressed to levels the original engineers never expected. etc,plus at high rpm levels there 2-2.5 quarts of oil in the valve covers, lifter gallery and trapped rotating with the crank assembly if you don,t have a windage screen and baffled oil pan, now hit the brakes or accelerate hard, oil stacks into one end of the oil pan and theres darn little oil left above the oil pump pickup,in a 4-5 quart oil pan,but the mods are really , only required if you have increased the oil flow rates,by increasing the bearing clearances,and re directing oil and as a result you also need to control the flow better and have more oil in the sump, ordinarily the engines needs are supplied, and the adequate volume can easily be supplied by the standard oil pump if you have not increased the clearances and done a few other mods to increase the oil flow rates to parts in the engine to increase the flow rates to cool and lubricate the components.
so the obvious question is why do you bother doing the mods in the first place, if the standard pump will work, the answer is the standard pump works fine up to the limits it was designed for, and thats a engine of about 265-327-350 cubic inches and spinning under about 6500rpm that produces under about 370hp,
once you start to exceed that theres a few modifications that can, if done correctly increase the cooling and engine durability, but those mods require a greater volume of oil flowing over parts to cool and lubricate them than the stock pump cam provide, if you read the linked info youll see that there are modifications to a, stock sbc to convert it into a race engine that are neither needed or useful on a street engine, but due to the far higher stress levels in a race engine those mods become more important to durability.
it should be rather obvious that a decent oil cooler, on your cars lube system and on your cars transmission,that keeps the transmission fluid temps in the ideal temperature range will tend to maintain the more consistent and lower oil temperature ranges both your engine and transmission will require to last under harsh operating conditions. it should be equally obvious that a well designed oil pan and windage screen that will help maintain a consistent supply of that oil to the engine and if possible a deeper aluminum transmission pan that allows you to increase the volume of transmission fluid will help maintain those consistent temps., there are several good dual path coolers available but if you've got the room two separate 6 pass coolers with 3/8" npf fittings and matching lines would be ideal.


Ive been using this recently on my transmission, as my 10 qt custom oil pan seems to provide adequate oil cooling by it self

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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRM-12318/

heres a similar dual trans fluid & separate engine oil cooler

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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRM-13311/?rtype=10

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BTW I DON,T KNOW WHO SELLS THESE BUT IVE GOT TWO ON MY CORVETTES OIL FILTERS AND THEY EASILY REDUCE OIL TEMPS 7-15 DEGREES the ones I have are about 6" long and fit about 90% of the diam of the filter
BTW most early TPI corvettes had an oil cooler mounted between the engine block and oil filter that would reduce the oil temps in the engine, by circulating the engine coolant and oil thru separate,parallel passages , this had the advantage of more rapidly warming cold oil but keeping its max temp lower than without its use.
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yes they work, they easily drop the oil temps 15 plus degrees F or more, by running the oil flow alongside but separated from the engine coolant. now they are NOT as effective as a aux cooler because they can,t lower temps to quite as low as engine coolant temp levels,and if you pay attention to your gauges youll generally see oil temps tend to run 15-30 degrees over coolant temps, on most engines. while if you install the AUX oil or trans fluid coolers , with the electric fans ,those can, at least in theory lower temps to outside air temps, or at least to significantly lower levels than the coolant temps. and yes that can easily be 100F LOWER. I,d also point out that a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan, the longer length oil filters and an adding an fan cooled oil cooler can reduce oil temps very rapidly , so get a few gauges installed to help verify actually operating oil temps.
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viewtopic.php?f=57&t=176

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=10514

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3954

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=6327

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=5037

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2710

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=296
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby grumpyvette » August 31st, 2010, 5:30 pm

btw if your dealing with a big block 396 make sure what year the block is from,
what year was the engine block and cam bearings, are is important because
on the 396, early 65-66 396 engines REQUIRED a GROOVED REAR CAM JOURNAL AND CAM, or they starved for upper engine oil flow, if you installed a standard bbc cam or standard cam bearings your screwed

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viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2600&p=6732&hilit=+bearing+rear+groove#p6732

one factor thats frequently over looked is that many bearing manufacturers don,t seem to have placed the bearing oil feed holes in bearing shells so they exactly match the oil feed passages in the engine blocks
example heres a common minor mis-match on the bearing shell/oil passage alignment
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tear-dropping oil feed holes in cranks helps oil flow

but Ive seen some where over 1/3-to-1/2 the oil feed hole was blocked due to misalignment, thats usually easily cured, by drilling a shallow increased diameter recess in the blocks oil passage to open it to match the bearing or opening up the bearing feed hole, but which ever route you take be sure to carefully clean and deburr both

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As you'll see in Figure 1, below two different types of grooved upper main bearing shells

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the oil groove terminates before it gets to the bearing parting line. This style of main bearing has accounted for a 15 percent or more increase in hot idle oil pressure. So if you're looking to eliminate some of those unexplained low oil pressure gremlins contact your bearing manufacturer and ask about this style bearing and availability for the engine applications that you are building.

keep in mind only the upper main bearing shell should have an oil groove, having a 360 degree oil groove lowers the bearing ability to handle high rpm loads

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THESE BEARING PICTURED ABOVE, LOOK GREAT BUT HAVE LOWER LOAD CAPACITY
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these CLEVITE (H) SERIES, ABOVE MAY NOT LOOK AS GOOD BUT HAVE HIGHER LOAD CAPACITY AND BEVELED EDGES FOR THE CRANK FILLETS, or ROUNDED CORNERS ON THE JOURNALS THAT INCREASE STRENGTH LIKE ON THE CRANK BELOW
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increasing the groove, from 180 deg to 270 deg, lowers bearing support, increases oil flow rates and tends to increase wear
http://www.mahleclevite.com/techbulleti ... TB2051.pdf
Introduction:
The main bearing oil groove is required for the sole purpose of supplying oil to the
connecting rod big end bearing. At one time it was common to have a full 360° groove on the
main bearing to provide an uninterrupted supply of oil to the big end by means of a single
drilling from the main journal. This was achieved by having identical upper and lower bearing
shells.
As bearing loads increased this design proved unsustainable as the oil film thickness, on
which every crankshaft bearing relies, became insufficient for reliable main bearing
operation. The solution was to increase the bearing area on the more heavily loaded lowerhalf
bearing by reducing the extent of the groove to around 230° or even 180° in order to
provide a single bearing land of greater width. Any increase in bearing width enables a
higher oil film pressure to be sustained as the distance from the centre of the bearing to the
edges, which cannot sustain an oil pressure, is increased. This in effect allows the
generation of a thicker oil film with which to separate the shaft and bearing shell.
The reduced oil groove extent would sometimes be compensated by a cross-drilling on the
main journal in an attempt to maintain an uninterrupted supply of oil to the big end bearing.
However, in many cases it was found that the big end could cope very well with the
subsequent intermittent oil flow offered by a single drilling from a 180° groove.
Nowadays, with the use of computer simulation and engine testing the optimum extent of the
groove may be determined. It is not now just a case of allowing the big end to survive but
that the efficiency of the bearing system can actually be improved by due attention to the
groove geometry. This is because the big end bearing, like any hydrodynamic lubricated
bearing, will use as much oil as it needs to generate an oil film for any given operating
condition. Any less than this amount risks disrupting the oil film and ultimately starving the
bearing of oil, but equally, feeding excessive oil to the bearing simply results in additional
leakage, and reduced efficiency. Therefore, the oil groove, like many other features on a
bearing shell, can be optimised.

read thru this
http://vandervell.co.uk/images/slidesho ... forman.pdf

I recently had a guy come by that had a massive oil leak at the rear of his TPI engine he wanted me to help him remove and replace the intake gasket which he was convinced was the source of the oil leak, but I convinced him to take a few minutes to locate the source of the oil leak BEFORE we started dismantling the upper engine, a bit of testing showed it was a defective oil pressure sending unit sensor under the distributor.
now this is a P.I.T.A. to easily access on the stock engine config but its easily modified for easier access with an adapter that allows you to move the sensor further out away from the distributor



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ON A TPI INTAKE GETTING TO THE OIL PRESSURE PORT IS A TRUE P.I.T.A. as clearance is MINIMAL AT BEST, using a 45 degree adapter and a couple other adapters allows you to move the sensors out from under the HEI distributor for easy access

the oil pressure switch might be defective, if the fuel pump won,t run, even if its new
and at $11-$35 Id just swap it out if your concerned

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http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?pf_i ... ept_id=153
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http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?pf_i ... ept_id=153

the single terminal sensor runs the oil gauge the dual connector runs the fuel pump ONCE theres about 5 psi of oil pressure but they do fail and they do leak oil when they fail and both are commonly located near the distributor
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby DorianL » January 6th, 2011, 2:26 am

Is there any advantage to this part?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-32500/

Image
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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby grumpyvette » January 6th, 2011, 9:36 am

thats a good question, because they sell a bunch of those baffles, designed to be installed between the rear main cap and the oil pump.
but the idea behind those plates is that they in theory slow the flow of oil in the sump from climbing up the rear of the oil pan under high (G)loads like under hard acceleration.
Ive tested those plates in several engines that Ive built and the results Ive seen lead me to believe that in a properly designed oil pan with a well designed windage screen and baffles ,they don,t really do all that much to help, because the combo of windage screen and baffles already does a great deal of that oil control, but they don,t seem to hurt anything either.

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read the linked info


viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64&p=77#p77

540RAT posted this info
Sucking the pan dry IS JUST AN OLD WIVES TALE. An oil pump can only pump as much oil out of the pan, as the motor will bleed off through all its clearances. Beyond that, the oil pump reaches bypass pressure and simply returns any excess oil to the pumps intake side, so it is not sucking that amount of oil out of the pan. Therefore, its leaving a larger volume of oil in the pan. Or else the oil pressure relief valve releases the excess oil back into the pan. And if for some reason the bypass isn't large enough, then the pressure would HAVE TO GO UP.

Once an oil pump reaches bypass pressure, it makes no difference whether the pump is std volume or high volume, it won't drain oil from the pan any quicker. Pressure is pressure, no matter how it is generated. So, if a std volume pump can't pump the pan dry, then neither can a high volume pump at the same pressure.

In order to suck the pan dry, youd have to have â insufficient drain-back. Blaming the pump, would be misidentifying the problem. Sure the pump gets the oil up to the top, but its drain-back that gets it back to the pan. So, just be sure that you have plenty of drain-back capacity and it would be impossible to pump the pan dry.

While dyno testing my 540ci BBC with .003 clearance on the rods and mains, using 5W30 synthetic oil, and using a Titan â high volume gerotor oil pump, it maintained a rock steady 80 psi (the preset relief valve setting) from about 5,000 rpm on up, with no pressure drop AT ALL. So, there was no sign of aerated oil. Now, with a pump that big, generating that much oil pressure, and using oil that thin, if an engine was ever going to pump the pan dry, that should have been it, right?

But it never happened, and it maintained oil pressure better than most I've seen. The thinner oil will also drain back better, but it will have also passed more oil through the engine, providing better flow/lubrication and cooling. One thing I did do during the build, was I enlarged the drain-back holes in my AFR heads, to double their original area. Was that enough to keep me from pumping the pan dry, due to better drain-back? Maybe, but if that's all it took, then keeping the pan full of oil is not Rocket Science.
Reply With Quote

"When it comes to discussing/debating the topic of std volume oil pumps vs high volume oil pumps, we need something more than just opinion and speculation. We need some actual real world data. So, consider the following:

About a year and a half ago, Car Craft Magazine used a 372ci SBC to do an oil pump volume comparison test. So, we can look at that actual data to see how things stack up. Here are the results using conventional petroleum 30 wt for each test:

Oil Pump...........Peak HP..............Ave. HP...........Ave. press.

Std volume/std pressure..............485¦.392...............50 psi

High volume/High pressure...........481.¦.390..............66 psi

High volume/std pressure.............477.387................64 psi

As you can see, surprisingly the std pressure version of the high volume pump made the worst HP of these three small block pumps. It was down 8hp or down 1.6% for peak HP, and down 5hp or down 1.3% for Ave HP. It also provided a 14 psi increase in ave pressure, or a 28% increase in ave pressure.

But the High volume/high pressure pump was down only 4hp or down .8% for peak HP, and down only 2hp or down only .5% for Ave HP. This one provided a 16 psi increase in ave pressure, or a 32% increase in ave pressure.

Of course the most important number is the â average  HP loss, NOT the peak HP loss. Because peak is only a single data point, while average is across the whole rpm range being used.

Only the most hardcore racer could ever notice a 2hp or .5% HP loss, using the high volume/high pressure pump. So, using that pump does NOT cause a significant loss in performance. And the higher volume pump will provide better low rpm oil pressure, and allow for switching to the much better thinner full synthetic oils that are available. More on that below:


And in the same article, Car Craft also tested different oil viscosities using the High volume/std pressure oil pump. Here are those results:

Oil.....................Peak HP.Ave. HP.......Ave. press.....Ave. Flow in GPM

0W10 syn................480.....387..................56.....................7.4

5W20 syn................479......386..................59.....................7.2

20W50 syn..............477.......387.................67...................6.5

30W conventional...475.......384..................67....................6 .1


The 0W10 is probably thinner than all but the hardest of hardcore racers would care to use. And 20W50 is thickish and somewhat similar to the straight 30W.

But 30W conventional petroleum oil was used for the oil pump volume test at the top, so lets use that as the main reference here for viscosity comparisons. And that leaves the more reasonable 5W20 synthetic for a quick viscosity comparison.

The 5W20 made 4hp more peak HP or about .8% more peak HP than the 30W. It also made 2hp more ave HP, or .5% more Ave HP than the 30W. So, HP increases with the thinner oil is not significant here, but it does offset the slight loss of hp from going to a high volume pump in the first place. The thinner 5W20 also drops a little oil pressure, but its still quite reasonable.

So, a larger volume oil pump loses a tad bit of HP and increases the oil pressure, but the thinner synthetic oil gains a tad bit of HP and decreases the oil pressure. In the end, its all pretty much a wash. So then whats the point of making these changes at all?

To answer that, we need to look at the average flow in GPM (gallons per minute). The 5W20 flows a whopping 18% more than the straight 30W. So whats the value in that you ask?

Well, many folks think that pressure = lubrication, but that is simply not the case. Pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. FLOW is the only thing that lubricates, and you get more flow with thinner oil as we just saw above. Lubrication is what is used to separate moving parts, and keep them from touching.

And increased flow also has another very important advantage. An engine's vital internal components are all DIRECTLY OIL COOLED, but only IN dircetly water cooled. And thinner oil will flow more freely, carrying away more heat, thus providing better cooling for those vital internal components. And of course that extra cooling is even more important in high performance engines.

So, going to the trouble of achieving almost an extra 20% in flow, is well worth the effort. If someone asks why use a high volume pump, the answer is so that you can maintain reasonable oil pressure with thinner oil. And with thinner oil, you can improve both lubrication and cooling. So, its all good.

NOTE: To best see those oil temp changes and cooling improvements, you really need to observe that in a running car on the road or on the track. Because trying to observe this during brief dyno pulls, will likely result in you not getting a worthwhile picture of the true potential.

So, here are some comparison numbers for you from an 830 HP road race engine, on the track:

15W50 oil = 80 psi = 265* oil temp

5W20 oil = 65 psi = 240* oil temp


Here you can see how the thicker oil flowed more slowly through the bearings, thus getting hotter and driving up bearing temps. If an engine is running hot, use a thinner oil to increase flow and increase cooling. And running a high volume oil pump allows you to do that."

of course theres both bolt on oil pump pick-ups and retention brackets and safety wire bolts

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pio-839061/overview/

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http://www.jegs.com/i/Canton-Racing-Pro ... Id=1995258
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viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4306&p=26502&hilit=+safety+wire#p26502

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pick-ups like this one below are less likely to break due to better support

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adding a brace and brazing it to the pick-up tube and use loc-tite on the bolt threads helps durability
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viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800



keep in mind this was on a very high average RPM range engine combo,selected to MAXIMIZE any differences that the oil pump characteristic might effect, on a lower rpm engine the differences would be significantly lower on hp loss at higher rpms
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby DorianL » January 6th, 2011, 10:19 am

Interesting...

Now those windage tray kits - essentially studs for main caps with stand offs for the windage tray...

to swap bolts for studs... there is no machining required, right?
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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby grumpyvette » January 6th, 2011, 10:32 am

theres no machining required in most cases but keep in mind that theres bolt kits with extended studs and stud kits, if you use the bolts or studs you mount the windage screen about 1/8" out from the arc the rotating assembly makes, use of main cap studs can and do on occasion change the stress loads and MIGHT require a line hone to bring the alignment back to correct.


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-2 ... /?rtype=10

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related info

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2726

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=2851&hilit=windage+tray

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3449

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1014&p=3831&hilit=+splayed+caps#p3831

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=125&p=3577&hilit=+studs#p3577

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=852&p=1311#p1311

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4306&p=11353&hilit=pick+up#p11353

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2376&p=8690&hilit=pick+up+braze#p8690
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby grumpyvette » December 3rd, 2011, 4:48 pm

WELL DESIGNED AND PROPERLY INSTALLED BAFFLED OIL PANS,WINDAGE TRAYS AND CRANK SCRAPERS GO A LONG WAY TO INCREASING ENGINE DURABILITY THRU BETTER MORE CONSISTENT OIL FLOW RATES
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DUAL REMOTE MOUNT OIL FILTERS CAN MAKE EXTRA FILTRATION FAR EASIER TO INSTALL

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PARTS DETAIL
Principal Application: Chevrolet and GMC Trucks (73-93)
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 7.822
Outer Diameter Top: 3.674
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 13/16-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Burst Pressure-PSI: 270
Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby grumpyvette » December 24th, 2012, 4:32 pm

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notice the one gear with the shaft is driven by a connecting drive shaft from the distributor.
the small block oil pumps have only 7 tooth gears, and generally use 5/8" pick-up tubes that seat into a removable base plate, while big block pumps use a 3/4" diameter oil pump pick up tube that seats into the pump body itself

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heres a minor oil pump modification , that Ive done for decades on BIG BLOCK OIL PUMPS
its not mandatory in fact theres little evidence that it helps a great deal, but Ive done it for decades and if you closely examine used pumps I think youll see a difference in gear wear, I know its never hurt and it seems to reduce wear and resistance to spinning the pump.
on the standard chevy oil pumps the small block pumps have 7 tooth gears the larger big block pump design has 12 gears, the larger 12 tooth gear big block pump can usually be bolted onto many small block engines, the standard volume big block oil pump works great on the high performance small block engine IF ITS MATCHED to a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan, and a windage tray.
theres a DRIVEN GEAR with a shaft that extends up to the distributor drive shaft and theres a coaster gear that simply spins on the shaft in the pump housing , Ive always drilled 1/16" holes alternating between 1/3rd down and 1/3 third up from each end of the coaster gear in the base of each tooth groove, so theres a single small oil hole in the base of each groove between the teeth, this effectively forces pressurized oil from 5-to6 small oil feed holes to the support shaft on the coaster gears interior, in the big block oil pump coaster gears , this provides a constant pressurized oil flow to the coaster gears center,axle, and its support shafts surface, a better modified picture showing the drilled holes you drill might be useful, as it at least in theory reduces friction loads on the oil pump coaster gear.


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another mod, ILL TALK ABOUT BELOW, is to drill a 3/4" deep hole, about 1/8" in diameter so about halve of the drilled hole is along the drive shaft wall and about 1/2 is in the gear wall, along the wall of the hole wall where the drive shaft is force fit into the gear, then tap in a roll in of the correct size, this insure the shaft cant spin inside the gear, and cause a huge loss in oil pressure.

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NOTICE THE PINNED DRIVE GEAR

ROLL PINS ARE DIRT CHEAP!, just be sure to seat them at least .050 below the gears lower surface and not drill the hole completely thru the gear

pinning the driven gear,is usually done on race engines especially road race engines, where you can expect prolonged higher rpm running, its done for increased durability, as under constant high heat and loads gears did occasionally slip or spin on the driven shaft they were press fit on, remember one gears driving the other , ones being spun by the distributor drive gears the other spins and coasts on a axle shaft it simply rotates on, as its teeth mesh with the driven gear, if that driven shaft slips inside the driven gear which can happen if crap like a needle bearing from a roller rocker gets sucked into the pump gears, and jam,s the teeth momentarily , the driven gears spin loose and you get zero oil pressure, roll pin the gears and it might scar the teeth but you still maintain oil pressure and it chews up the minor metallic debris and passes it to the oil filter.
http://www.harborfreight.com/315-piece- ... 67682.html

obviously you can pre align the slot to accept the slot inside the distributor gear in the base of the distributor to allow the distributor get the rotor to face any direction when seated
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remember the oil pump drive only seats in two locations 180 degrees apart but it can be lined up anyplace you want with a 18" long large flat blade screw driver prior to installing the distributor from the top of the engine rather easily before you re-seat the distributor, but as the distributor gear teeth mesh the distributor will turn the rotor about 15 degrees
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby grumpyvette » March 21st, 2013, 4:29 pm

hooking up an oil cooler can be beneficial, reading sub links can be critical
but before you go out an invest in an oil cooler take the time to install a dependable oil pressure and oil temperature gauge to find out what your dealing with as far as oil temps go, and don,t be overly surprised if you have a 7-8 quart oil pan if you find your oil temps remain reasonable without an oil cooler,
(the same might not be true for your transmission fluid)

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=6327&p=19878#p19878

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=176

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3144&p=16458#p16458
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-1 ... dia/images
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if you install an oil cooler like this that has larger AN#8 or 1/2" lines and a powered auxiliary electric fan its going to far more effective and less restrictive
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-3818/media/images
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if you install an oil cooler like this that has small AN#6 or 3/8" lines and no auxiliary electric fan its going to far less effective and more restrictive
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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OIL SWEAT - Re: oil system mods that help

Postby Loves302Chevy » April 17th, 2015, 8:47 pm

Grumpy - You mentioned,
grumpyvette wrote: "BTW if you soak a new timing chain and gears in a pan , covering them in a mix of synthetic oil and moly assembly lube and heat them to about 220 degrees to allow the oil to penetrate into the metals pores it will tend to pre-lubricate the chain and gears more effectively than just installing them dry, and from what Ive seen they last slightly longer."

I am re-using my Milodon Premium double-roller timing set, 19K miles with hardly any signs of wear and the chain is still tight. I had to machine .052" from the back of the crank gear to get the gears in alignment. To make installing the gear easier, I held it over my propane heater for a few minutes. As it warmed up it started sweating --- OIL! I continued heating the gear and it was now fully coated with oil and dripping on the floor. It was as if I just pulled it out of a container of oil. I have heard about these miracle lubricants and oil additives that "actually penetrate the pores of the metal", but this surprised the hell out of me.
I also did warm the chain with my heat gun, but I sprayed it with Liquid Wrench chain lube instead. Mike.
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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby grumpyvette » April 18th, 2015, 7:53 am

well I'm glad SOMEONE reads and gains something from my years of experience, I've gained and can use the tips I post!
and yes its always nice to have some one post verification , that what I've posted is useful and valid
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby 87vette81big » April 18th, 2015, 2:46 pm

Nice tips Grumpy.
Some apply to Pontiac V8 I have used prior 1st hand myself.

If you find a link of how to add cavatation grooves to the Pontiac V8 pump let me know.
Only Butler seems to know exact.
Takes 9-12 gallons per minute flow to 20+ gallons per minute I have read.
M54 F. 80PSI Ram Air 5 & SD455 Pumps.
What I have and use.
Also have a M54 D 60 Psi RA 4 pump for daily driving street use.
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Re: oil system mods that help

Postby grumpyvette » April 18th, 2015, 3:32 pm

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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