oil temps and engine wear



oil temps and engine wear

Postby grumpyvette » February 2nd, 2012, 1:17 pm

I was just over at a friends shop where he was working on a kids car giving him a tune up, after he finished the kid said let me try it out, and proceeded to back the car out on the street and do a 5000rpm tire smoking burn out without letting the engine come close to reaching operational temps first, as he pulled it back up the drive way I mentioned to my friend that the chances of that engine staying in one piece over the long term was about zero, look as kids we all did dumb stuff but if you insist on beating the hell out of an engine before temps stabilize and oil gets up to the correct temps its certainly going to take a toll in increased engine wear rates, theres always a compromise and on most engines the best oil temp range to reduce wear,emissions and get the best mileage is found when the oil temps kept in the 190F-215F range MOST OF THE TIME and it RARELY exceeds 220F

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http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief13%20-% ... cosity.pdf
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viewtopic.php?f=57&t=9880&p=37712&hilit=t+stat#p37712
BTW HERES AN IMPORTANT TIP, IF YOUR INSTALLING A REMOTE OIL COOLER, IT is really common for guys to use lines that are far too small, that restrict flow oil flow or select a transmission or oil cooler that has to small of internal passages, shop carefully you want a MINIMUM of 1/2, or AN8 line size and 5/8" or AN10 is BETTER.
[b]many guys don,t realize that adding an oil and/or a transmission fluid cooler, with its own fan and radiator that allows those liquids to be cooled separately, to your engine and drive train, significantly reduces the heat load on the radiator, and generally allows the engine temps to decline noticeably. in fact just adding a high volume oil pan and a transmission cooler can drop your engine coolant temps 20F-30F in many cases

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a rather common issue with adding oil coolers, is that many of the coolers available can significantly restrict fluid flow because of the small restrictive internal cross section of the internal tubing, AN #6 and 3/8" tube coolers can be quite restrictive, the AN#8 are better but DUAL AN#8 coolers and AN#10 lines generally work the best, and there's also frequently limited space to position a cooler in the outside cool air flow mandating a powered fans.
the solution to both issues can and frequently does require use of two different oil coolers but placed in series this can further increase flow restrictions, the solution is in use of larger internal cross sectional area,transfer lines and mounting the twin coolers in parallel thus doubling the effective cross sectional area reducing the flow restriction the cooler potentially could produce if used in series

by Larry Gedney

This article is provided as a public service by the Geophysical Institute, University of Alaska Fairbanks, in cooperation with the UAF research community. Larry Gedney is a seismologist at the Institute.

Dr. Terry McFadden teaches a course at UAF called Arctic Engineering. It is a gold mine of tips, solid engineering, common sense and often little-known facts about coping with day-to-day problems encountered in cold climates.

If you don't like puzzles, skip the next paragraph, but I'm including it here to show the kind of problem that McFadden gives his class. It's a classic of basic engineering rationale, and requires only rudimentary mathematics and a little insight to solve. For malingerers, the answer is given at the end of this column. The problem reads:

"Some experts estimate that the wear on the rings of an internal combustion engine is as high as 0.001" per 1000 miles of operation when the oil temperature is below 170 degrees F. If the maximum allowable wear is 0.006", how long can you run your engine when the oil temperature is below 170 degrees before you wear it out?" (A 6-to-1 engine-to-wheel reduction ratio, an average running speed of 3000 rpm, and 14-inch wheels 28 inches in diameter are assumed.)

The point of this problem is to stress that by far the greatest amount of engine wear takes place before the oil is warmed up. The amount of wear that occurs afterward is insignificant by comparison.

It can be appreciated, therefore, that it is important to warm the oil, as well as the engine block. An engine that is kept warm with a circulating heater or with one that is plugged into the block can usually be started easily, but the oil is not heated and it provides very little lubrication at first. Consequently, the most engine wear occurs during the few minutes immediately after starting.

The ideal situation, of course, is to have a heater for both the engine block and the oil pan. Owners of cars with air-cooled engines like the old Volkswagen beetle know that the oil pan heaters are the only kind of heater that the engine will take (aside from dipstick heaters, and the less said about them, the better).

The answer to the problem given above is that the engine would be technically worn out after just 144 hours of cold operation. Realistically though, those 144 hours represent an awful lot of cold starts.
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As startup the engine is cold (pressure high, temperature low)
As the engine warms up (pressure low, temperature high)
As the rpms increase (pressure up, temperature up)
At some point the oil begins to thin (temperature up, pressure down)
Ideal oil temperature is between 180-220F
ZDDP:

Remember all my talk about the brand you choose not being so important? Times are a changing but it's not 100% clear what's happening and what is the best action to take.

Oil contains many performance enhancing additives:

Detergents - keep the engine parts clean
Dispersants - keep contaminant from clumping together
Friction Modifiers - reduce wear and improve fuel efficiency
Antioxidants
Rust Inhibitors - prevent corrosion by acids
Pour Point Depressants - keeps oil fluid at low temps
Antifoam Agents
Seal Conditioners - swell elastomeric engine seals
Metal Deactivators - reduce oxidation
Viscosity Modifiers - makes multi-grade oils possible
Antiwear/EP agents - compounds (like ZDDP) that bond to metal to prevent wear

READ THE LINKS, theres a ton of useful info

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1334

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=5037

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3536

http://www.classiccarmotoroil.com/articles.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f2fcbTh5yw

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3519

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=615

http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repairq ... 120_2.html

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/OilSelection.html#tnp

http://www.elephantracing.com/techtopic ... rature.htm

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

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BTW I DON,T KNOW WHO SELLS THESE BUT IVE GOT TWO ON MY CORVETTES OIL FILTERS AND THEY EASILY REDUCE OIL TEMPS 7-15 DEGREES the ones I have are about 6" long and fit about 90% of the diam of the filter
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: oil temps and engine wear

Postby grumpyvette » September 21st, 2012, 11:41 am

"HEY grumpy, my engines just not running as well as it used too and I found fine metallic dust in the heads , when I went to adjust the valves and on the dip stick when I checked the oil level, when I did the last oil change,I saw that same metallic dust in the oil pan, IT looked like fine glitter, I know that can,t be good! now what?"

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you can expect things like this if its allowed to continue


fact! if you have significant amounts of metal shavings on your dip stick you have significant metallic debris in your oil pan, and your oil pump IS sucking them up and forcing them thru its gears and toward the oil filter , SOME of that metallic trash ALWAYS bypasses the oil filter eventually, and the oil pump is subjected to increased wear.
sounds like a cam or lifters or some valve train components wearing rapidly and the metallic trash is bound to eventually destroy your bearings ETC.
your engine WILL continue to wear at an increased rate and failure to pull it down and correct the problem is just prolonging and increasing the potential for increased damage or catastrophic failure.


its time to pull it down, inspect, locate and correct any potential problem areas before things get worse


http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3536

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=117

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=52

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=282
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: oil temps and engine wear

Postby bytor » September 21st, 2012, 12:57 pm

Good read, it got me thinking.

Whats to keep someone from installing a temp sensor identical to what your using for your water coolant sensor in your 7qt oil pan. Then use a two position switch to 'share' the temperature gauge in the car to monitor coolant and oil temperature. That way you could get a decent indication of oil temp at will.
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Re: oil temps and engine wear

Postby Indycars » September 21st, 2012, 1:53 pm


The best part about your idea is there are no changes needed to your
dash. Important if you don't want to cut into the dash for another gauge.

Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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