building a custom wet sump oil pan



Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby grumpyvette » June 10th, 2014, 10:42 am

CAN YOU BUILD A KILLER OIL PAN? HELL YES YOU CAN! IF YOU THINK IT THRU!
I've built several over the years that far surpassed many commercial pans Ive seen that cost well over $500 plus
before you do the first weld put the car up on jack stands or a lift and get under there!
and measure, you need to know how deep the pan can be, how wide it can be and where all the clearance issues are located, place the ammo cans, use duct tape or a floor jack or what ever is required too get a good accurate visualization of clearances required,the potential sump size, shape and location, as too ,where and how you can fit things, dirt cheap, easily changed 1" thick 12"x12" blocks of styro-foam / or 3/4" Polystyrene Panels are even easier, to give a clear visual reference , you can use as to were the sump will be extended with the ammo cans, while your under the car checking clearances, youll be basically using the panels to duplicate and verify the placement of the soon to be fabricated sump until you fabricate it for real.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-3- ... 5yc1vZbaxx
panels will be trimmed stacked and glued with contact cement to the current oil pan, to the same size as the ammo can sections you intend to use later,panels , that can be used as a guide while under the car,then, remove the oil pan and you have a clear visual record on the pan on your work bench. showing you how too do it correctly the first time because making corrections later to correct mistakes too gain required clearance late in the process SUCKS ! CAREFUL MEASUREMENT AND PLANING BEATS DOING IT OVER SEVERAL TIMES!
as to flow gates I generally try to have a top floor slosh plate under the windage tray with all the baffles and flow gates welded into it hanging below in one easily removable component fore ease of maintenance and cleaning , you can either design it too bolt into the oil pan or onto the windage tray support studs , so the oil pan simply drops over it, obviously in either case care must be taken to insure the lower edge of the baffle walls come very close too contacting the oil pan floor so oil flow is restricted by the one direction hinge gates.
an upper slosh plate under the windage tray that directs oil flow to the rear sump but prevents flow surge under hard braking from moving forward , bolted to a set of lower baffles like these below that fits snugly between welded in side baffles works great


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this would be a great project for a set of detailed sequenced , step-by-step photos shown in progression as to measuring and fabrication of that oil pan on the car
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby 87vette81big » June 10th, 2014, 12:10 pm

Ok Grumpy. I will plan on putting flow gates in there.
And a braking baffle.
Homemade windage screen was my plan.

Have to read some more of your links.
Only so much free time after work in 1 day.
The flow gates shown look entirely custom Fabbed from scratch.
Are they ?
Have to check Speedway Motors & see what they have current for pan parts.
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby 87vette81big » June 10th, 2014, 2:01 pm

Ebay selling is going great Grumpy.
Have enough to build that custom AMMO BOX 425 OLDS PAN. :mrgreen:
4-days left on 1 auction....they want that C4 ZR-1 Part I have.
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby 87vette81big » June 10th, 2014, 6:22 pm

I am going to sneak off on Fathers Day Grumpy.
Get to my other garage.
Look at the GP underneath. Measure & check.
I plan in doing a build thread.
Miss driving that car.
Easiest & lowest cost project to complete I have.
Hard to desribe just how good those old 1959-64 Pontiac B body Tin Indians Drive.
I know you recall too.
Its faster than the 87 Corvette Vert 0-120 in 1/4 mile +.
403 Smog Olds engine.
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby 87vette81big » June 11th, 2014, 5:45 am

I went through and read every single Link of yours last night Grumpy on this thread.
I dreamed of custom oil pan designs to build.
Drag Racing.
And Street Racing in the '63 Poncho GP & My 70-1/2 TA just as I did in my younger years.
Call of Duty.
50-100 guys out on 2 lane blacktop country backroads marked off for 1/4 mile.
And not a cop in sight at 2-3 AM.
All had a chance to line them up. Run Em. Race & Win.
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby 87vette81big » June 11th, 2014, 5:56 am

Your threads don't cover much outside of the Chevrolet camp Grumpy.
The most sucessfull design Drag Racing was from Mopar Chrysler.
440 Wedge & 426 Hemi.
The Central located Deep Sump worked Great.
Vintage Mopar muslecars had a K Frame design intentioal too allow to fit.
Excellent High RPM oil control & High G Force launches Drag Racing.
Ingenious design.
Allowed the Hemi Race 426 to turn 9K RPMS and have adequate oil control at all times.

#2 design was the 1963 Pontiac SD421 Catalina & GP 11 Quart Oil pan.

Found your Ammo box link too.
Was hidden. Bookmarked it.

We are going to build a One off Olds 425 S engine Ammo Box oil pan soon.
11 Quart Min Volume sump. May turn out to be near 14-15 quarts when done.
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby 87vette81big » June 11th, 2014, 3:02 pm

Recalling my reading from last night Grumpy & an old post by you back in 2008.
What is a Canton Power Box Exactly ?
The link states Canton has a proprietary way pf Funneling oil back around the Main sump well pickup Screen inlet.
No pictures.
Google has no results related.
Familiar with Milodon & Moroso Drag Racing oil pans.
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby grumpyvette » June 11th, 2014, 4:57 pm

a "power box " is a rather simple concept that is typically ignored because it makes fabricating an oil pan more complicated and expensive to build
if you look at about 90% of all engine oil pans you see the bolts that fasten the oil pan to the block go thru a flange into the blocks lower casting , rail
similar to this picture, where the outer wall of the oil pan is closer to the crank center line than the bolts securing the oil pan gasket

Image
this configuration is almost universal, however , if the, oil pan gasket and sealing rail are secured with bolts extending up thru tubes extending thru the oil pan sump the outer wall of the oil pan can be moved a couple inches further out away from the crank center line, similar to this oil pan, extending this oil pan wall outwards greatly increases the oil collecting efficiency of the windage screen and crank scraper combo and sharply reduces the drag induced by oil carried by the rotating assembly at high rpms, plus it much more quickly returns oil to the oil pump for reuse, add a vacuum pump to the crank case and efficiency increases even further
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this configuration allows the insertion of a crank scraper or dedicated oil shear, and an area for oil to be thrown, and collected and redirected efficiently back to the oil pump.

below an oil pan with an extended side sump but without the correct placement and matched crank scraper added it lost much of its potential gains, still better than a standard design but far less than the real power box with outer wall and inside crank scraper design

Image
WELL DESIGNED AND PROPERLY INSTALLED BAFFLED OIL PANS,WINDAGE TRAYS AND CRANK SCRAPERS GO A LONG WAY TO INCREASING ENGINE DURABILITY THRU BETTER MORE CONSISTENT OIL FLOW RATES
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https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/pr ... POWER-PAN/
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notice the $900 price tag, thats not all that rare on that type of oil pan
GOT AN LS engine swap?
http://www.mastmotorsports.com/view.php?id=160&c=49&s=7
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby 87vette81big » June 11th, 2014, 5:52 pm

Fabricating a Custom Power Box is Not doable right now for the 425 A. Olds V8 engine Grumpy not practicle.
Not full Race.
Just street pounding fun & stick my foot on the gas for 30 seconds WOT To 1-2 minutes.
GP is highway geared. 3.23 posi for now.
Big cubes move it effortless.

Custom exotic pan made for the 410 sbc & 70 TA a possibilty later.
Never liked the Milodon Drag Race pan on TA 100%.
7-quart volume not enough
Actually ran 9 quarts total in past.
Once running I figured 2 quarts in the top end valvetrain& returning back at 4,000 RPMS +.
On the bench test filled with water 8 quarts just
Below the stock sump baffle. Baffle patterened after SD455 I noted.
Have a NOS SD455 Oil pan put away.
No leaks ever. No oil issues.
Full length 1965-1969 Pontiac windage tray used.
Extra large & 9 count return holes added.
Worked but I know there is better.
Added a Oil Temp guage by Autometer. Pro Comp Series Capillary Tube unit.
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby 87vette81big » June 11th, 2014, 5:55 pm

Your insight & Experience welcome on this Custom Olds 425 Ammo box oil pan.
All new to me Grumpy.
Going to do it.
Oiling system makes or breaks an Engine. Just as the Fuel system does.
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby grumpyvette » June 12th, 2014, 1:46 pm

any clear pictures of the current oil pan on that engine, as it sits in place, from several perspectives from under the car, as it sits currently will help

as you can see most Pontiac oil pans are rather basic
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby 87vette81big » June 12th, 2014, 5:38 pm

Last I counted I had 10 Pontiac Oil pans Grumpy.
1964-79.
4 Oldsmibile Pans. 2 403's. 1 455. 1 425 Olds.

Have to wait till this weekend.
Be with my Pochhos again.
Nice too. No Vette IRS to fail.

I thunk I know a guy with a 1963 SD421 11 Quart pan to examines ne.
Long ride to him .
Near Indiana border.
Pontiac Nut too
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby 87vette81big » June 17th, 2014, 12:53 pm

I am going to order a set of Ammo cans Grumpy.
30 Cal, 50 Cal, & Super 50 Saw Box.
The Saw Box is 12" X 6-3/4" X8-1/2".
About 11.87 Quarts Volume if Welded in full.
Had a Look at G Body Cutlass 455 Olds 455 pans 8 quarts volume.
Saw Box will work I do believe.
Affordable purchase.
Graft it in. I like Fabricating one off parts.
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby grumpyvette » June 17th, 2014, 2:32 pm

once your pan capacity reaches about 8 quarts theres little to be gained adding more capacity, it becomes more about directional control of oil flow and preventing windage losses, you need oil to easily flow towards the oil pump but have great difficulty sloshing away under hard braking or acceleration or hard cornering thats where baffles , windage screens,and directional flood gates come into this, a couple 30 cal can or a couple 50 cal cut to fit and welded into the existing oil pan after very careful measuring, to clear the suspension,starter,oil filter,exhaust, car frame etc. will hold far more oil capacity than you require
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby 87vette81big » June 17th, 2014, 6:34 pm

Do my best Grumpy.
That 427 Tall Deck BBC holds 11-12 quarts of oil volume.

BBC & OLDS 455 Marine pans hold 11-12 quarts too.
Still shooting for 11. Pontiac Did it in my body B body style Grand Prix & Catalina with SD421.
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Re: building a custom wet sump oil pan

Postby 87vette81big » July 16th, 2014, 9:47 pm

I am going to order & Purchase my 50 MM Ammo Can & Super Fat 50 SAW Box Ammo can This Friday Grumpy.
Puchased last of small items for 425 Olds.
Milodon Street Stip Olds Pickup coming.
Milodon 4130 Chrome Moly Olds Oil pump driveshaft came in today.
Have another 1965-69 Pontiac Full Length windage trar coming. $25 fleabay again.
Prices are getting nuts. Most want $200 for That used Poncho windage tray.
No one looking again. Bought it cheap.
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