tubing , fuel lines and flaring



tubing , fuel lines and flaring

Postby grumpyvette » January 15th, 2009, 12:21 pm

Here is some tools that might help, but before you go spending money on flare tools for hard fuel lines ,you might want to know that most hydraulic supply stores can fabricate really nice fuel, brake or coolant and transmission fluid hard lines or if needed flexible type hydraulic lines dependent on the application,with AN connectors at very reasonable prices if you measure things carefully. and hard lines being far less flexible are slightly more prone to vibration damage if subjected to recurring movement. if your only doing brake lines once it makes little sense to buy a $200-$300 flare & bending tool, but if you do that type of work a couple times a year its a good investment in my opinion
obviously your needs and budget will have a huge effect on what tools you select, but the cost of a really good tool cost spread over decades of its use is peanuts compared to the frustration and wasted tubing of using crappy $30 flare tools

I don,t use aluminum, fuel line, because it fatigues quickly and it frequently rated under 40 psi., the best line is stainless steel hydraulic line you can usually get from a local hydraulic hose supply manufacturer or repair shop, its generally rated at 1000 psi or higher in 1/2" size I GENERALLY RUN ON PERFORMANCE CAR APPLICATIONS, shop carefully some places price that line like its made of gold, most are far more reasonable.

http://www.amazon.com/Ti-Industries--Ca ... aulic+line

http://www.hydraulic-supply.com/html/pr ... tubing.htm

http://www.copper.org/applications/auto ... brake.html

http://store.fedhillusa.com/cnf6.aspx

http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/Hy ... tm?Click=3

http://store.fedhillusa.com/cnf8.aspx

http://www.boydwelding.com/?gclid=CIuGs ... 7Aod-BAANg

http://shop.hoseandfittings.com/catalog ... S-304.html

use steel hydraulic/fuel line its rated well over 1000 psi, it comes in 25 ft lengths in either 3/8" (AN#6) or 1/2" (AN#8)

Image

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B1 ... 00_s00_i00
be aware youll need a tubing cutter and flare tool if you work with hard fuel line

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/KTI-70081/?rtype=10

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/50919/index.html

http://www.toolbarn.com/ridgid-33927.html?ref=base

http://www.atlinc.com/racing.html

http://www.eastwood.com/professional-br ... -tool.html

90/10 copper tubing used for brake lines is NOT the same thing as most hard ware store copper plumbing tubing your going to commonly find locally

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/tec ... d_flaring/


this is the tool a friend has and if I didn,t have ready access, Id buy one as soon as finances allow, yes Im addicted to buying good tools and Id buy one in an instant if I used it more often,but thinking back I doubt Ive used it more than 3 times in the last 6 -7 years, so while its available for use for free Ill spend my very limited cash else-ware
Image
Image
http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Autom ... S71300.htm

http://www.toolfetch.com/tube-flaring-tools.shtml

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=807&p=8498&hilit=rusted#p8498

http://horsepowerperformance.com/c-7774 ... l-die.html

http://www.russellperformance.com/misc/tech/main.shtml

http://www.mastercool.com/pages/flaring_tools.html

http://www.autorepairmanuals.biz/site/573683/product/MTC71400

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/produc ... msend.html

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=211

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=635

BTW alcohol in fuel tends to cause aluminum to oxidize over time

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/

"Grumpy, theoretically, what is the maximum horse power that a -6AN fuel line can support? "

Meaning -6 all the way from the tank to the pump and from the pump to regulator, regulator to carb. Is there a point at which the -6AN fuel line will not support XX HP, regardless of the pump used?

Thanks,

Phil


Ive seldom used fittings and lines that small,on anything I intended to race,seriously (usually use 8AN) so I called the tech guys at EDELBROCK and at RUSSELL, both tech guys felt that if everything was optimal you could probably get to 600 hp with the correct pumps, and ,filters and fuel pressure regulators
Image

http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/nsearch ... ords=71475

http://www.gre6.com/ansize
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tubing , fuel lines, brake lines, and flaring

Postby grumpyvette » January 18th, 2009, 2:57 pm

btw on a V8 with dual fuel rails feeding two banks of injectors,you GENERALLY you feed fuel directly into the rear of one side fuel rail,(GENERALLY PASS SIDE) run a connector across the front of the intake to the opposite drivers side fuel rail and install a connector at that point to the fuel pressure regulator mounted at the rear of the drivers side fuel rail that connect to the return line

http://www.eastwood.com/professional-br ... -tool.html

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/345-Flaring ... /index.htm

http://www.mastercool.com/pages/flaring_tools.html

http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/fbom ... index.html

http://www.nextag.com/Makita-Mastercool ... rices-html

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000LGBVSS/ref ... B000LGBVSS

http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R10265.pdf

http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R10265.pdf
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The advantage of doing it the way I stated, above and the way HOLLEY RECOMMENDS is a constant fresh flow of fuel feeds the injectors ,any water or air trapped in the lines gets cycled rapidly back to the tank for a repeat trip, where in theory the filters trap it there, the dual feed route at least in theory allows water or air to remain trapped in the fuel rails circular routing that supplies the injectors much longer, as the main exit routes the injectors, themselves, yes in theory the dual feed supplys both ends of the fuel rails , but thats seldom if ever been the advantage it seems, at first, since the exact same volume is available with either route
Image
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B1 ... 00_s00_i00
be aware youll need a tubing cutter and flare tool if you work with hard fuel line
remember that stainless brake lines need to be flared at 37 degrees (which requires a special 37 degree flaring tool) and not 45 degree like fuel lines. Also its a single flare not a double as you would with steel fuel lines. The stainless brake lines are too crack prone to take a double flare and will most likely split if you try to flare that far .

BTW
While we are talking about fuel fittings here, I try to use nothing smaller than AN 6 on street cars and nothing smaller than AN 8 on race cars but fitting type DOES MATTER
3/8" inside diam, will work ok up to about 550hp PROVIDED there no fittings/adapters with significantly smaller internal dimensions. I'm always amazed at the guys that overlook that point, a common 3/8" fitting might only have a 1/4" internal passage on cheap fittings

AN fittings like this
Image
will have internal passages that are full size as listed
fittings like this

Image are usually very restrictive,

Image

these can be even worse, and IVE seen all of them used on cars even thou they are not designed for that use!

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=211

Image

Image

the usual problems not the 3/8" or an 6 line size its that many common adapters and fuel line fittings REDUCE the flow and have inside diam. that are significantly under 3/8" ID

example, heres a 3/8" barb/3/8 NPT fuel line fitting
Image
inside diam. significantly less than 3/8" ID

an #8 is a better bet at 550 plus hp, and the fittings are designed not to restrict flow
Image

(7)ANY SCREW THREAD FUEL LINE ADAPTER THREAD

Image
sealant to use, use the number matched to application,
[color=#008080]BTW should you need to replace a rounded off flare nut,
youll need a flare tool (they come in 37 and 45 degree styles so look carefully)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/OTC-6503/
Image


a tubing cutter
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-900500/
Image



and a new flare nut, of the correct type and size

Image

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-220215/?rtype=10


read this thread

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3545
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tubing , fuel lines and flaring

Postby grumpyvette » September 4th, 2013, 3:49 pm

C5 DUDE POSTED THIS

This is my attempt to show what I learned on flaring a line. So if anybody on the forum ever needs to flare a brake line or air conditioner line like the one I am going to show, you will be good to go. I am not an expert by any means, so if you guys want to chirp in, please impart your learned bits of wisdom as well.

First I will explain that the problem I was having was that the air conditioner line on the manifold hose assembly was rubbing against a wiring loom hold down and as you would guess, it rubbed a hole in the line. See the pictures.

This is what it looked like from the outside. You really even cant tell it rubbed all the way through.

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/NorthwestHarris-20130616-00065_zps2ebca2df.jpg.html"]Image[/url]
[img]http://www.grumpysperformance.com/zps2ebca2df.jpg[/img

But in this picture you can tell that it was leaking from here. I could tell because before I looked I filled the system with a little Freon and it gushed out from this very spot. :laughing:

Image[/url]

Now the first thing to do is cut the lines using a tube cutter. Its a small tool that wraps around the pipe and you twist it around the pipe while tightening the blade after every other twist. This is the one I have.

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/economy-mini-copper-tubing-cutter-872613_zpsfc0504ba.jpg.html"]Image[/url]

Now you should have a nice clean cut on your tube like this.

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/NorthwestHarris-20130616-00072_zpse2d15864.jpg.html"]Image[/url]

Now you have to deburr the inside of the line. There are deburring tools but I used a blade to clean it up. Do a good job here as this will also make the flare nice and clean.

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/Houston-20130616-00069_zpsbd370c4c.jpg.html"]Image[/url]

After deburring the tube you will need to get your flaring tool. They come in two different types. A 37* and a 45*. The 37* is made for most AN type fittings and stands for Army Navy as it is the military standard type used for a long time. It also is common in aluminum type fittings. The 45* flare is the standard size and is widely used in most applications and is what I used. I found two different view points on which is better but I usually found that 37* is more common in automotive uses. But that said, I used a 45* flare tool and 45* brass fittings on some advice from a friend who said they would last longer than the vehicle.

This is what the tool looks like. Notice that this tool comes with the double flare die tools as well and I use them as they make a better seal too. This kit I picked up at an Irish guys parts store for $22. :D

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/Houston-20130616-00068_zpsfa54b609.jpg.html"]Image[/url]

Now before you do anything you will want to slip the tube compression cap on. If you forget this you will be very disappointed as you will have to cut the tube and start over because it won't fit on after you flare the tube. So don't forget.

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/NorthwestHarris-20130616-00076_zps7063f5b8.jpg.html"]Image[/url]

Now put the tube with the cap already on in the flaring tool press being sure to put the end on the side with the flared cut in the press. You'll want to slip the tube up enough so that it sits flush with the height of the double flare die like it shows in this picture.

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/Houston-20130616-00073_zps19de22a4.jpg.html"]Image[/url]

Then you will tighten the clamps holding the tube down as much as you can. Then turn the double flare die over and place it in the tube like this.

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/Houston-20130616-00074_zpsdc793d10.jpg.html"]Image[/url]

Now put the actual tool press over the tool and line it up inside the center of the die and tighten it down. You will tighten it down until you can't tighten it any more. It should look similar to this.

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/NorthwestHarris-20130616-00075_zps533195a6.jpg.html"]Image[/url]

When you are done and it is tight, it should be smashed down making a mushroom looking head on the end of the tube. But we aren't done yet. Now remove the press tool and then remove the double flare die and reinstall the press tool into the flare you just made. The first flare press pressed the outside flare and now we are going to press a clean inside flare like this picture.

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/Houston-20130616-00078_zpsf81c69b8.jpg.html"]Image[/url]

Once you can't turn it any more, remove the press tool and press die and check out your handy work. You now made a flared fitting on a tube from scratch. It should look like the following.

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/Houston-20130616-00079_zps6dcbdeac.jpg.html"]Image[/url]

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/Houston-20130616-00081_zps9403feb6.jpg.html"]Image[/url]

Now just pull the cap up over the flare and your ready to install.

[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/NorthwestHarris-20130616-00080_zps06da8b40.jpg.html"]Image[/url]
[url="http://s967.photobucket.com/user/lramin_photos/media/Houston-20130616-00082_zpsf0165a23.jpg.html"]Image[/url]

Now do this for the other side and use a flared coupler to put them together and you have fixed a hole in whatever line you found it in.

I have been told that the double flare when done right can hold in excess of 1200 lbs. So I am quite certain it can hold the pressures within this system. The only enemy of the flare fitting is vibration. They can vibrate loos and any loosening of the lines is a bad thing for a pressure fitting. So you may also want to do as I did and use some blue lock tight or plumbers paste in the threads of the fittings.

Good luck with your repairs my friends. May they always be cheaper and easier than you first thought.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Posts: 14105
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