edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.



edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby grumpyvette » January 18th, 2009, 4:25 pm

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... howValue=1

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... hevy.shtml

http://www.jenvey.co.uk/

http://ncarboni.home.att.net/NCtpi.html

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1509&p=3459&hilit=base+runner+plenum#p3459

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0 ... rsion_ls1/

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=433

http://xtremecarzone.com.au/index.php?showtopic=386

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/wi ... 21105.html

http://www.corvettefever.com/techarticl ... index.html

http://www.cfm-tech.com/

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=431&p=530#p530

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... index.html
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/7137/10002/-1 $415
FUEL RAILS

Image $129

now obviously you can,t use this to swap out a TPI without some mods simply because the system its designed to work with uses a totally differant throttle body, and sensor imputs....its designed to work with a SPEED DENSITY CPU and an LS style throttle body.....and theres other factors preventing a dirrect swap,

Edelbrock designed the XT manifold with a compact 9-inch maximum height so it can be used in virtually any application where a carb fits, though the proximity of the throttle body to the thermostat opening requires the use of a low-profile right-angle thermostat housing. The thermostat must be rated at 180 to 195 degrees F, since older thermostats can trick the ECU into running in cold-start mode (full rich). To ensure easy service, the Pro-Flo's sensors for manifold absolute pressure, inlet air temperature, and coolant temperature, as well as the fuel pressure regulator and fuel filter, are all GM parts that can be sourced at any auto parts store.

Image

The XT's 5-inch runners offer a straight shot between the plenum chamber and the head. Unlike some modern OE-tuned intake manifolds, there are no spirals or shaped runner extensions inside the plenum box. Edelbrock used computer modeling and plastic flow test fixtures to arrive at runners that deliver a good balance of torque and horsepower all the way from 1,500 to 6,500 rpm. Remember, this is a dry-flow system, a detail that frees the design from the hazards of fuel puddling and dropout. Note how the 29 lb/hr Pico fuel injectors are targeted to fire their charge of highly atomized gasoline against the backs of the intake valves, the ideal location. While our 3527 XT kit fits the standard SBC manifold bolt pattern, Vortec heads are accommodated by the Vortec-specific 3528 Pro-Flo XT kit.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow

Postby grumpyvette » January 20th, 2009, 4:47 pm

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

Image
http://www.firstfuelinjection.com

THE larger 1.75" of the FIRST intake design, vs the STOCK 1.47" diameter runner cross section , of the stock G.M. tpi, intake adds at least 1200 rpm to the engines potential IF properly matched to the correct components
http://ncarboni.home.att.net/NCtpi.html

I had a conversation with FIRST FUEL INJECTIONS ENGINEER
(NICE KNOWLEDGEABLE GUY)
Image
keep in mind theres dozens of different T-stat housings for clearance issues
BTW READ THRU THIS

http://ncarboni.home.att.net/NCtpi.html

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=823&p=1214#p1214

http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_0607_ ... index.html


the more questions I asked the more it became obvious that he was NOT b.Sing and had done the required research, the first TPI flows about 25%-30% more air than the stock TPI out of the box, and if EXTRUDE HONED it can easily keep up with most of the best sbc intakes in the 2000-6300rpm range (where its desighed to opperate) http://www.extrudehone.com/auto/auto-performance.php

http://gofastnews.com/board/technical-a ... nteed.html



on most displacements. its basically a dirrect replacement for the stock TPI, but there may be some sensor tweaks necessary, as the tps connector might need the pins reversed on some years due to differances in the rotation (EASILY DONE)

read this

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=823

BTW HERES TWO MORE OPTIONS FOR TPI STYLE ENGINES WANTING A DIFFERANT INTAKE, BUT KEEP IN MIND SOME MODS ARE SOMETIMES REQUIRED!!


a correctly ported stealthram still has that beat, Ive seen tests where the HSR pulled an extra 67hp from an engine over the stock TPI, but you might want to keep in mind a few factors, its NOT so much that the HSR is such a fantastic addition as its the TPI is such a HUGE restriction to power potential

look the formula for hp is
tq times rpm divided by 5252= hp
if you make 350 ft lbs at 3500 rpm thats 230 hp (the stock hp)
if you allow the engine to breath better and can make the same 350 ft lbs at 5500rpm thats 366 hp, youve effectively gained 136 hp simply moving the rpm band higher, the stock TPI intake flow and cam design basically falls on its face at about 4500rpm, and the stock heads only flow about 200cfm.


(remember the air flow potential and the basic rpm range of the parts combo must match)

add the correctly ported HSR and a cam in the 230 durration range and heads that flow a minimum of 250 cfm at .500 lift,and youll quickly find you need a rear gear in the 3.73:1 range a higher cpr near 10.5:1 and a 3000rpm stall converter to make it run correctly, but the intake flow will now allow you to make ALOT more hp.


HERES one of the best street combos IVE yet found that can be built from the stock block

AFR 180CC heads
http://airflowresearch.com/180sbc_sh.php

CROWER 00471 HYDROLIC ROLLER CAM (slightly more hp)
http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam_finder.php?part_num=00471&x=23&y=6
OR CRANE 119661 HYDROLIC ROLLER CAM, (what IM useing as its more street friendly)
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/itemproduct_10001_10002_67066_-1_744662_10707

youll need 36 lb injectors and probably a new CHIP burnt, a good MSD ignition won,t hurt either

COMP 1.6:1 roller rockers
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D1302%2D16&autoview=sku

a 383-404 short block with 10.5:1 cpr
http://www.ohiocrank.com/sbc_short.html

1.5/8" long tube headers
low restriction exhaust
3000 rpm stall converter
3.73:1 rear gear

and add WET NITROUS

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NOS%2D05151NOS&N=700+115&autoview=sku

INSTANT DOUBLE HP
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby grumpyvette » October 7th, 2012, 2:13 pm

http://sethirdgen.org/TPIbase.htm

read this carefully
the best results I got when useing a TRUE TPI were with a ported EDELBROCK base, PORTED and siamesed SLP runners and a ported plenum, siameseing the base lost tq , yes its possiable to raise the rpm level the engine runs at by siameseing the base but the cars not quicker,the SUPER RAM and CUSTOM STEALTH RAM both out flow and out perform the ported TPI, the SUPER RAM flows about 245cfm untouched the STEATH RAM flows about 275cfm untouched both can be improved about 25cfm with port work. the standard or ported TPI is designed to work best in about the 1000-4000rpm range, with cams in the 205-220 @.050 range, the super ram in the 2000rpm-5500rpm range with cams in the 210-225 @.050 range and the stealth ram in the 4000-6500rpm range with cams in the 220-240@.050 range
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/buildup/plenum/
http://www.geocities.com/softtailduece01/
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/winter01/dyno/dyno021105/webpage021105.html

you really need a cam upgrade and at least minimal head porting or aftermarket heads to take full advantage of the higher flow rates the super ram and stealth ram provide, rear gear changes to gears in the 3.73-4.11 range help keep your engine in the higher rpm ranges where the aftermarket intakes can provide thier full benefit
<b> engines are a system, REQUIREING ALL PARTS MATCH THE INTENDED RPM RANGE AND AIR FLOW LEVELS FOR BEST PERFORMMANCE, if you keep the idea that an engine combo is only as strong as the weakest link firmly in mind youll have a better combo! THE STOCK TPI intake is extremely restrictive, almost any mods help. BUT keep in mind chevy designed that TPI intake for the under 4000rpm range where your car spends 80% of its time ,not as an intake for max HP,you can get large gains in hp with a change of parts to match the 4000-6500rpm range but you will loose some low rpm tq in the trade for much higher hp </b>

heres a few things to read
http://www.idavette.net/hib/camcon.htm

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/cam-tech-c.htm

http://www.69mustang.com/hp_torque.htm

http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html

http://xtremecarzone.com.au/index.php?showtopic=386

notice all the better hp engines are running better flowing heads and cams with 225 plus duration

the formula for HP is (tq x rpm /5252=hp)
so if your stock TPI makes 330ft lbs at 3800rpm that equals 238hp
but add 50 ft lbs of tq due to better airflow and/or larger displacement and design the engine and gearing to run at 4800rpm and youll have
380ft lbs x 4800rpm/5252=347hp thats over a hundred hp increase!



Ive been thru this with dozens of combos, the end result is that , porting the runners like that does effectively increase the rpm power band slightly because you shortened the runner and increased the plenum volume but its hardly worth the time and effort, a port cross sectional area reaches port stall at some point, only a larger port cross section will allow a higher stall speed, but in most cases its the cam, or the cylinder heads that are the limiting factor.
what you do to your engine should be linked to what your trying to accomplish, if adding a couple hundred rpm to the power band is your goal then jump on the intake mod, but if your serious about making significantly more power its basically wasted effort.
if your serious youll need better than stock L98 heads,a decent aftermarket intake, a new cam, and most likely increased displacement and compression.
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
heres a first intake vs a stock intake runners, but remember no matter how larger the runners are the intake base port size and the cylinder heads and cam timing are going to potentially pose a restriction.
you can swap to the larger (FIRST ) intake, or if you want to theres other options, but if the heads, cam, exhaust, or any other component is more restrictive your always limited by the weak link.
a stock TPI limits flow to about 200 cfm and that matches the stock heads, and intended rpm power band, even if you were able to port the intake to flow 240cfm the heads are still the limiting factor, swap the heads and cam, and youll potentially see gains from the intake mods but Id strongly suggest the heads, cam and a low restriction exhaust, will be mandatory upgrades before youll see significant gains and by that time youll gain more from a better intake design like a correctly ported HOLLEY stealthram, but that also raises the engines intended power band requiring a 3.54:1-3.73:1 rear gear and a 3000rpm stall converter or a manual transmission if you install a cam designed to match t5he intakes higher flow rates

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1745&p=4378&hilit=+stealth+porting#p4378

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=5521&p=23459&hilit=aluminum+corvette#p23459

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=430

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=823
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby grumpyvette » October 25th, 2012, 4:56 pm

http://www.dragzine.com/videos/other-te ... s-engines/

watch this video if your building a SERIOUS EFI or CARB LS series engine!
HOLLEY has a few intake, and OPTIONS well worth looking at!
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby grumpyvette » October 3rd, 2013, 9:02 am

Davidpower wrote:Hi everybody,

I´m the guy with the 388 Chevy engine in my wifes 79 Mustang. We have the Edelbrock Pro Flo XT Intake
and E-Tech200 heads and a compression of 11.8 : 1.
Cam is solid roller 236/236 @ 0.050" 0.55 lift.
After changing the headers the car ran 12.4 and 112 mph which is about 0.6 sec better than before.
BUT it seems No one exept us uses this Intake for power. There was an article in a magazine about fuel savings with the XT and thats it. Silence about this intake. is it possible that this intake is the wrong one exept for looks?
Are there dyno tests with intake swaps?



grumpyvette wrote:the 200cc e-tec heads easily support 500 hp on an 11.8:1 compression 383, but obviously the cars gearing and converter stall or manual trans gearing must match the engines power band.
don,t guess, do some tests and locate the problem.
I can,t read the linked info so please post this info requested below.
So Id need to know the tire diameter, rear gear ratio car weight and drive train gearing and type of transmission,,Id like to know what a dyno shows your fuel air ratio, ignition timing and plenum vacuum readings are and what your exhaust back pressure is, [color:red]Id like to know what cam your using,MANUFACTURERS PART NUMBER ETC. what rocker ratio?,, its lift, LSA and duration at .050 lift, as I suspect your a bit under cammed, most solid roller cams have more lift and duration, for that application
so I can do a bit of software dyno test builds.
Id like to know what valve springs you used, the standard valve springs that cam with the heads are not designed for roller lifters.
Id like to know what your fuel pressure is and what your injector flow rate is.
if I know those factors I can pretty much find out if the intakes restrictive.
[/color]

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... rpm1.shtml

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/eng ... 08sc_mm05/


Davidpower wrote:Thanks for the info.
I will make tests concerning back pressure and manifold vacuum.

One thing I know for sure is my air cleaner is a bit restrictive and the headers and the 2.5" "tailpipe" may be a bit too small but space is really limited . We use the car for Oldtimer rallies also where you got lots of driving very slow and standing in a row waiting for the next
excercise. That makes a lot of thermal problems
for us .It gets really hot in summer with engine idle at 900 and standing around. So its the problem to have a °historic" car that could be used for oldtimer purposes and 1/4 mile racing too.
We wanted around 400 hp and 12.4 s 112 mph in a
car with driver that has 3300 pounds seems to fit.
But again to get to the proflo xt manifold:
The ports seem a bit restrictive. The injector bungs protruded way too far into the ports so i had to grind around a bit. And in my opinion the ports are relative small. And they absolutely don´t fit the E-tech inlets. Inlets of heads are rectangular, ports of manifold are vortec-like less wide in the upper part.And the widest part of the manifold port is about 1/10" smaller than the E-tech inlet. Read about a guy who port matched this intake and had to epoxy the outer manifold walls because he grinded holes .And thats exactly
how the manifold looks like.
Thats why my question came up : is this Manifold
junk for the E-tech heads althoug Edelbrock combines those two?
I´m sorry if my links didn´t work.
my homepage is www.Davidpower.de
The engine is seen on the mustang side. No need to read this strange language, just click the pics.
Theres one 1/8mile video of the car showing how bad it hooks.
Regards:
Davidpower


IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby grumpyvette » October 3rd, 2013, 9:05 am

grumpyvette wrote:In my opinion, your faced with a rather common situation where theres no easily available, direct replacement intake manifold, with significantly larger ports to match those e-tech /vortec style heads.
but Id like to see the test results before you go assuming its the intake thats the huge restriction, it might be the exhaust flow is a big restriction,or the engines cam timing not allowing the engine to breath,of a fuel supply issue, you can,t assume its the intake allone causing the lack of power it could easily be several factors in combination.
your probably aware there are intakes with larger ports, of a totally different design, that would require a new throttle body.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... hevy.shtml
If the testing indicates the intake manifold is restricting power, the most cost effective route would be to have extra aluminum material TIG welded to your current runners and allow you to port them to match the current heads port opening, and while that sounds like a great deal of trouble its something any decent automotive performance machine shop can do for you, if you don,t personally have the tools and skills

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=462


Davidpower wrote:Hello Grumpyvette,

I'm sorry I made my point of view not clear.
Finding more power is a question of work and Time and brains and tools,yes. It all sums up to this question for me:
Is the quest for power worth the effort with this intake? Or have some guys tried the same and it resulted by changing the intake.
Or did they search for power with this Intake and were happy with it?
Nearly every engine has the Performer RPM air gap
or some kind of Victor jr. intake. I got a book from Dave Vizard "How to Build Max Performance Chevy Small Blocks on a Budget" and he writes that one special intake made it impossible to gain power, it simply didnt't work.
Is the pro-flow XT this kind of intake?
http://www.davidpower.de/referenzen_mustang.html


grumpyvette wrote:I don,t know anyone whos done enough testing with that intake yet to give a definitive answer,it may or may not be able too provide you with the flow rates required, but I would not just write it off as a complete failure without further testing.
many guys just start swapping parts rather than do some testing to determine the CAUSE of a problem, looking for a quick fix, because its far easier to swap parts than to diagnose exactly whats going on and how to best correct some issue, and while that might be the easy solution its not cheap or always the best route.
if your determined to swap intakes,and if you have about 1" more hood clearance, and if it was my car and I was concerned with the engines potential power Id select a well ported holley stealth ram, like I did on my engine.
but I ported the intake extensively and fabricated a custom plenum, so you might as well port your current intake and if that requires changes you might consider your options
but Ive got a feeling that you might have significant gains available with a change in the cars converter stall speed, rear gear ratio and maybe a different cam and larger injectors, and a less restrictive exhaust, headers that scavenge efficiently aid intake flow rates when matched to a cam timing that allows the exhaust inertia to drag in the intake charge in the intake runnersImage

read the links


viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1745&p=4378&hilit=stealth+ram#p4378

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=430

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=333

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=322
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby grumpyvette » October 3rd, 2013, 9:06 am

Davidpower wrote:Update to our 388 Chevy with the XT Pro flo intake:
changed Torque converter to 3500 stall
still bad 1.99sec 60 ft
but 11.86 s @ 117.5 mph

the holley HP helped to smooth a lean area in the fuel map.
changed ignition advance from 33 to 34

changed to an KN air filter , that alone made +20 hp

greetings from Germany

Davidpower


grumpyvette wrote:I,m still curious as too what your f/a ratio is over the rpm band obviously it should be close to 14:1 at idle and slowly richen to between 12.7:1-13:1 by wide open throttle and the plenum vacuum should be under negative 2 psi
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby grumpyvette » October 5th, 2013, 2:18 pm

heres the rather rare T-ram off the SLP fire hawks
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby grumpyvette » December 7th, 2013, 12:03 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXiX3EBT9dE#t=65

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBp7LVzinRQ

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0 ... rsion_ls1/
bytor wrote:Came across this info while doing some research and thought I'd share.

http://www.hobracing.com/tech/tpi_flow.asp
TPI Intakes and runners

The following airflow tests were performed on the University of Northwestern Ohio's SuperFlow SF600 Flow Bench. All CFM values are corrected for airflow at 28 inches of water. Injector flow rates are flowed at 43.5 PSI on an injector flow bench using test fluid with same density as gasoline.

AirFlow

Stock TPI/LT1 48mm Throttle Body w/o airfoil -- 783.0 cfm

Stock TPI/LT1 48mm Throttle Body w/ airfoil -- 821.9 cfm

TPI/LT1 52mm Throttle Body w/o airfoil -- 848.9 cfm

TPI/LT1 52mm Throttle Body w/ airfoil -- 898.8 cfm

Stock 98 Camaro 3800 II Throttle Body -- 554.3 cfm

Stock TPI Bosch MAF sensor w/ screens -- 517.8 cfm

Stock TPI Bosch MAF sensor w/o screens -- 658.4 cfm

Stock 87 GN 3.8L Turbo AC MAF sensor w/ screen -- 584.2 cfm

Stock 86 2.8L AC 5-wire MAF sensor w/ screen -- 576.2 cfm

Stock 96-up AC 3100 V6 MAF sensor w/ screen -- 616.4 cfm

Stock 96-up AC 3100 V6 MAF sensor w/o screen -- 670.7 cfm

Stock 94-up LT1 MAF Sensor w/o screen -- 719.0 cfm

Stock 85-87 Firebird TPI airbox mid piece -- 499.3 cfm

Stock 4.3/5.0/5.7 2bbl TBI complete -- 574.1 cfm (dry)

Stock 4.3/5.0/5.7 2bbl TBI w/o injectors -- 584.7 cfm

Stock 3800 vin L throttle body w/ screen -- 419.1 cfm

Stock 3800 vin L throttle body w/o screen -- 444.8 cfm

4bbl MPFI Holley Throttle Body -- 1287.6 cfm

Another source sent in these flow numbers

Flow and HP ratings for Throttle-bodies:

Flow (cfm) Max. NA HP
Stock 668 300
Stock w/airfoil 710 350
52MM w/airfoil 835 400
54MM (AS&M) 900 450
58MM 1050 500


TPI Intakes and runners flow rates

Stock intake manifold with runner
Stock....................198.72 cfm
ACCEL................213.52 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL....217.11 cfm
Super Ram............220.67 cfm

the stock TPI has a hard time flowing 230cfm even with minor port work, look here
most of this info is right off the accel,holley,edelbrock, and TPIS sites, add a little math and the results become much clearer!!!

Intake....... length ....... port in -- out
Stock GM Base--- 6.375"------ 1.47"- 1.96x1.2
TPiS base------ -6.125"------ 1.75"- 2.09x1.28
Accel base----- -6.125"------ 1.75"- 2.09x1.28
Holley base------- 6” runner 2.3”- 1.9”x 1.23 (2.337 sq inches)
Runners
Stock TPI----- -- 7.250"------1.470" round(1.70 sq inchs)
SLP ----------- - 6.625"------1.600" round (2.01 sq inchs)
Accel LTR------- 6.625"------1.615" round (2.05 sq inchs)
TPiS----------- 7.625"------1.660" round (2.168 sq inchs)
Mini ram -----3.5”
LT1 ----------3”

Runners (measured individually)
Stock....................203.17 cfm
ACCEL................242.02 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL...275.83 cfm
Super Ram............289.18 cfm
Intake manifold with 3/8 inch radiused intlet.............................222.45 cfm
Holley stealth ram ………..275cfm

Stock intake manifold with runner
Stock....................198.72 cfm
ACCEL................213.52 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL....217.11 cfm
Super Ram............220.67 cfm
Holley stealth ram …..275cfm

ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with 3/8 inch radiused inlet.........251.51 cfm

ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with runner
Stock....................215.83 cfm
ACCEL................232.53 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL....243.21 cfm
Super Ram............240.24 cfm

Extrude-Honed ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with 3/8 inch radiused inlet ...............275.83 cfm
Extrude-Honed ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with ACCEL runner ..............266.94 cfm
Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold (Stock)..........286.51 cfm
Edelbrock Victor Jr. ............275.24 cfm

HOLLEY STEALTH RAM
the HOLLEY STEALTH RAM FLOWS at 275cfm out of the box, and has the potential when matched to the correct heads and cam to totally out flow most other intakes available,can easily reach 300cfm with minor port work and costs much less
Stock…………………………… 275cfm
Ported…………………………..300cfm

Runner lengths
Stock tpi manifold 8” runners 11.25”, cylinder head 6” total 25.25”
Accel super ram manifold 8” runners 7” cylinder head 6” total 21”
Holley stealth ram manifold 6.26” ” cylinder head 6” total 12.26”
Edelbrock performer RPM runners 6” ” cylinder head 6” total 12”
Edelbrock vic jr , runner length 5.5” ” ” cylinder head 6” total 11.5”



Also interesting TPI mods. Not so sure I agree with the one on bumping up the initial timing.
http://www.hobracing.com/tech/tpi_mods.asp


Basic TPI modifications
Friday, May 23, 2014





Basic TPI Mods: by DEBBIES87

There are a few basic mods that should be done to any TPI car, I call these "entry-level" modifications.

1) Cut the air box open without letting air in the engine without going through the air filter & remove the additional plastic piece below the air box to get more air into the engine.

2) Modify the mass air sensor; remove the screens, & and if your brave cut down the fins.

3) Port the plenum (upper intake). There are two small ridges sticking up in the entry-behind the throttle body, remove these. The throttle body openings are already 52mm, so don't go crazy when porting.

4) While the plenum is off for porting, it is now a good time to get a adjustable fuel pressure regulator & a MAT sensor relocater kit. The Adj. FPR will aid in tuning, and the new MAT sensor will improve throttle response as well. The new LT1 style MAT sensor is placed in the air box instead of the plenum, this allows it to read cooler air and advance the timing accordingly.

5) Advance the base timing to 12-13 degrees. Note: the harmonic balancers on these cars tend to drift with age, adjust timing to where the car still starts good and doesn't detonate.

6) If legal in your area, gut the catalytic converter and remove the smog pump belt (85-87), or run a shorter serpentine belt to bypass the pump (88-92); you will need to remove the smog pump on the 88-92's to reroute the belt properly. Check local smog laws first.

7) On automatic cars, adjust T.V. cable (throttle valve cable), so that the car shifts out between 4200-4500 RPM under wide open throttle. TPI motor power drops off drastically after 4500-4700 RPM, they peak at about 4200-4400 RPM. No need to over-rev these motors.

8) Bypass fan relay to make fans come on manually, or install aftermarket relay to turn on fans sooner.

All together these mods should make the car perform like it should have from the factory, gains should be between .6-.9 tenths of a second from these modifications.




T.V
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby grumpyvette » May 23rd, 2014, 4:34 pm

If youve ever wanted to build a kick BUTT TPI engine theres little question that the FIRST intake is the superior version, but to take advantage of the extra air flow potential the larger port cross section provides, you also need the drive train gearing too allow the engine to operate in the new higher matching power band, and heads and cam with the flow and lift to allow that flow, to be used.

https://www.firstfuelinjection.com/services.html
its significantly larger ,and more efficient runners flow significantly more air allowing the effective use of heads that flow 280cfm, and cams in the .600 lift and 240 duration at .050 lift range in 406 displacement small block engines
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IN THE NEXT THREE PICTURES BELOW YOU SEE THE OBVIOUS DIFFERENCE IN RUNNER SIZE, between stock and the FIRST INTAKE
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PUT AN INTAKE LIKE THAT ON A 383-406 with about 10.5:1 compression, a set of 40 lb injectors,and a cam like a CROWER 00471 hydraulic roller cam, decent heads, a 3200 stall speed converter , 1.5:1 roller rockers,and a 3.73:1 rear gear, 7 quart baffled canton oil pan with windage screen, and youll have a combo that wakes up a TPI corvette
http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=24_33
http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/102100 ... oreDetails
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby philly » May 23rd, 2014, 9:41 pm

i have such a boner to build a tpi turbo with the first fuel injections intake. ah if only we had all the money in the world to pursue all our dream combinations!
-phil

There's never enough money to build it right, but there's always enough to build it twice!
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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby 87vette81big » May 23rd, 2014, 9:50 pm

philly wrote:i have such a boner to build a tpi turbo with the first fuel injections intake. ah if only we had all the money in the world to pursue all our dream combinations!

Your LSX Engine will make way more HP Phil than any with the 1st.
Looks Good. Good Power.
But its still a Long Runner design. Not for large HP.
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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby philly » May 24th, 2014, 9:25 am

yea but a tall (3.36 or taller) rear gear and properly sized small twin turbos and a cam to function from idle to 6300 on a tall tire will have enough torque to change the direction of the earths rotation... it'd be like the callaway on steroids
-phil

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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby grumpyvette » May 24th, 2014, 9:43 am

philly wrote:yea but a tall (3.36 or taller) rear gear and properly sized small twin turbos and a cam to function from idle to 6300 on a tall tire will have enough torque to change the direction of the earths rotation... it'd be like the callaway on steroids


every-time I see guys start thinking like this I can,t help but almost giggle like a drunk school girl, yes you could sure build a killer TPI engine and without doubt be the king of the neighborhood, Ive been, doing builds like that for decades ,my current corvettes 383 is similar, and theres no doubt you can have a very impressive corvette, thats far faster than average, well at least until....some guy with a 572 BIG BLOCK , with a twin inter-cooled TURBO set-up happens to drop by!
theres a big difference between what you can do with406-427 cubic inches in a small block and 540-572 or even 704 -1000 cubic inches with a big block
all it takes is a dumpster full of cash!

http://www.sonnysracingengines.com/engi ... 05-2150-hp
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby 87vette81big » May 24th, 2014, 10:03 am

grumpyvette wrote:
philly wrote:yea but a tall (3.36 or taller) rear gear and properly sized small twin turbos and a cam to function from idle to 6300 on a tall tire will have enough torque to change the direction of the earths rotation... it'd be like the callaway on steroids


every-time I see guys start thinking like this I can,t help but almost giggle like a drunk school girl, yes you could sure build a killer TPI engine and without doubt be the king of the neighborhood, well at least until....some guy with a 572 BIG BLOCK twin inter-cooled TURBO happens to drop by!

His Name Would be Grumpy.
Dana 60 4-link Rear. No goofing around.
Paul will Win.
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Re: edelbrocks pro-flow FIRSTS TPI intake ETC.

Postby philly » May 24th, 2014, 4:01 pm

grumpyvette wrote:
philly wrote:yea but a tall (3.36 or taller) rear gear and properly sized small twin turbos and a cam to function from idle to 6300 on a tall tire will have enough torque to change the direction of the earths rotation... it'd be like the callaway on steroids


every-time I see guys start thinking like this I can,t help but almost giggle like a drunk school girl, yes you could sure build a killer TPI engine and without doubt be the king of the neighborhood, Ive been, doing builds like that for decades ,my current corvettes 383 is similar, and theres no doubt you can have a very impressive corvette, thats far faster than average, well at least until....some guy with a 572 BIG BLOCK , with a twin inter-cooled TURBO set-up happens to drop by!
theres a big difference between what you can do with406-427 cubic inches in a small block and 540-572 or even 704 -1000 cubic inches with a big block
all it takes is a dumpster full of cash!

http://www.sonnysracingengines.com/engi ... 05-2150-hp



stump pulling asphalt cracking torque can be had with a small block... i've said before theres only a very small population of big block cars here and none of them are street driven, whereas all my projects have been and will forever be street cars.
-phil

There's never enough money to build it right, but there's always enough to build it twice!
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