tuning a tunnel ram intake



tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » July 22nd, 2011, 1:34 pm

I get asked to tune tunnel ram intakes fairly frequently,
and I think one reason, is many guys buy them with little or not much if any understanding of what that intake design was built to do, but they like the "race LOOK" and want the "LOOK" and figure they can deal with the tuning issues, as they come up.
AND I'M ALMOST ALWAYS AMAZED AT THE COMPLETE MIS-MATCH OF PARTS, MOST GUYS ASSEMBLE THAT THEY THEN EXPECT TO RUN CORRECTLY.
A well designed tunnel ram intake, with matching carburetors provides about the most direct, efficient ,strait line,path for the fuel/air mix, from carb to cylinder possible, and once the engine operating rpm range or engine speed, cam timing and engine displacement, and exhaust scavenging components are well matched in an application, you can generally make exceptional power levels, but keep in mind the basic design requires you to get up into the 250-300 fps range for air flow inertia to become highly effective filling the cylinders.
the first issue most guys need to understand is that in most cases, both carbs will need to be jetted the same on all four corners and the opening synchronized so the fuel air mix is consistent before during and after the transition from idle to wide open throttle, and that your idle speed and quality of the idle will be dependent on your being able to read the plugs and determine whats going on in the combustion chamber.(this is rarely good for mileage or how the engine will run below about 4000rpm, but then the intake was and is designed primarily for operation above 4000rpm with little or no concern for its power curve or efficiency below that rpm level.
now I,m not suggesting a good tuner can,t make the car run reasonably well with a tunnel ram intake on the street,but its never going to be the ideal intake design on an engine loafing along below 3500rpm, 90% of the time ,especially if good throttle response and mileage are a primary goal. I can tell you from experience that the larger the displacement engines tend to be more tolerant of street use off that tunnel ram intake design, and gearing and cam timing and efficient header scavenging is critical to getting good results.
if the engine won,t idle you most likely have a vacuum leak or some fuel/air ratio issues or the timings off.
Yes you can tune a tunnel ram intake to make both good power and torque, in fact if the parts are correctly matched power from about 3500rpm-8000rpm will match or exceed most other choices, and a good tuner familiar with tuning a tunnel ram should be able to get the combo to run without a stumble or flat spots in the power curve.. because a tunnel ram intake by design has a strait shot at the back of the intake valve in the cylinder heads from the plenum with the least restriction to flow possible these intakes tend to make excellent upper mid rpm and peak power.
One factor thats frequently over looked is that most tunnel ram dual quad intakes have nearly identical runner dimensions and an almost direct strait line path from the carburetor s venturi to the back of the intake valve on each cylinder, (unlike most dual and single plane single carb intakes) which can easily be worth an extra 1%-3% in power due to reduced flow restriction
I,ve frequently seen a 4%-8% % power gain from a properly tuned, dual quad tunnel ram intake over the best I could get from the single carb intake manifold designs, due to both the reduced flow restriction and better fuel/air ratio control between cylinders, but remember most tunnel ram intakes won,t produce those benefits until they operate in the designed rpm range which frequently starts at or above 4000rpm
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[b]obviously you will need to carefully port match some intakes to some head ports due to the wide variation in sizes and shapes

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PORT MATCHING THE INTAKE RUNNER EXIT TO THE CYLINDER HEAD PORT ENTRANCE USUALLY HELPS REDUCE RESTRICTIONS TO FLOW RATES, AND REDUCES FUEL/AIR DISTRIBUTION ISSUES
[/b]


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summit racing has some package deals
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yes you can run a tunnel ram intake with a small cam and small carburetors on the street, just for looks, yes they do make street tunnel rams with smaller runners that are designed to operate at lower rpms that the real race tunnel ram intake designs,and in that type of application you can set the carburetors to work progressively, but it won,t run ideally, youll loose a good deal of low and mid rpm torque and you'll never get near the benefits of the intake design, but yeah, it can be assembled and tuned to function, if your just into (THE LOOK)

lets go over the basics, most tunnel ram intakes are designed to operate efficiently in the 4000rpm-8000rpm power band, with TWO MATCHED 4 BARREL carburetors, they are race intake designs meant to maximize flow and minimize and port flow restrictions, and basically designed to be operated at wide open throttle most of the time, and use dual 4 barrel carburetors, so each carburetors venturie is effectively dropping its fuel/air mix into its own designated intake port, this mandates all four venturies should be jetted very similar and that the throttle blades on all four venturies in the carburetors open at approximately the same rate,and having two carburetors feed a single intake effectively reduces the vacuum signal each carburetors sees,so power valves and jetting and accelerator pumps must compensate, that higher intended power band by default means that the engine must also have a cam with matching duration and LSA and heads designed to flow a fuel/air mix in the same basic power band,that will open the valves long enough and far enough to maximize the intake runner flow rates at that intended upper rpm power band, in most cases thats going to be somewhat dependent on engine displacement and compression but a good rule of thumb is a minimum of 10.5:1-13.5:1 compression and a cam with a 245-300 duration @ .050 lift to match the duration and resulting dynamic compression
to get a good even controllable fuel air ratio entering into each port , you ideally have two matched carburetors with 8 throttle bores located over the intake runner entrances with the jets flowing enough fuel to supply abut the ideal 12.6-13.0:1 fuel air ratio in that intended power band and intake runner cross sectional areas matched to the engines displacement and power band.
so you can,t just throw on two old quadra-jet carburetors, or vacuum secondary Holley,s and expect it to run correctly, now IM not saying it can run reasonably well if your skilled at tuning ,but it certainly will never reach its full potential with the mis-matched components.
if your setting the intake up to provide its maximum power potential the throttle linkage should open all the venturies at the same rate , and youll rarely be running the engine under 4000rpm, from the launch to the mph lights at the end of the strip
keep in mind a tunnel ram intake is designed to have an open carburetor venturie almost directly over each runner feeding that cylinder, and in most cases a small plenum to allow some small cross over so each intake runner has access to slightly more fuel/air mix than the single carb venturie supplying it alone can easily supply, theres usually a direct strait line shot from the back of the intake valve up thru the carb venturie, but the ideal flow requires high air and port speeds so the system works best well above about 4500rpm in most applications, and only if all 8 venturies flow equally, this is best accomplished when all eight venturies open equally and jetting, fuel pressure and accessories like power valves and boosters are consistent, because, maintaining equal fuel/air ratios, ie, fuel droplets or mist suspended in the air flow does not like rapid changes in direction of flow
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I generally start with 7.5 power valves and #82 jets on all locations a 5.5 psi of fuel pressure then move up or down in jets or power valves as required, youll find it best to buy jets in these multi packs then re-place what you use

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-36-181/
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BEFORE PORT/RUNNER CLEAN UP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AFTER PORT/RUNNER CLEAN UP AND PORTING

PORTING THE TUNNEL RAM INTAKE RUNNERS CAN AT TIMES PROVIDE VERY NOTICEABLE GAINS
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stock un-ported runner entrances

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porting helps flow significantly

two 450cfm Holley work reasonably well on a street car
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CMB-03-0177/

two 600cfm Holley work reasonably well on a street/strip car
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CMB-03-0183/?rtype=10

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one reason a properly port matched tunnel ram intake flows efficiently is a strait path to the intake valve, in the cylinder head from the plenum

http://www.allcarbs.com/detail.php?pid= ... n=71&stt=0

two 1050 Holley dominators work reasonably well on a big block strip car
http://www.holley.com/0-9375-1.asp
http://www.profilerperformance.com/tunn ... v-216.html

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calculate port size
http://www.wallaceracing.com/runnertorquecalc.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/lpv.php

http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/hei.htm

http://www.swartzracingmanifolds.com/tech/index.htm

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=322

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INTERESTING RELATE ARTICLEs

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http://www.holley.com/20-28.asp
http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Tec ... 9R8291.pdf
if your using two holley vacuum secondary carbs on the street.....this might prove useful
to try to maintain exactly even fuel distribution between runners...which will almost never happen if the carbs open in a totally non synchronized manor


BTW contact the cam manufacturer, as theres a thousand or more valid combos
but two cams Ive had very good results with recently when using the tunnel ram intake, design, are these,crane cams listed below, both were used in reasonably light weight cars with manual transmissions and cars with at least 11:1 cpr and 3.90:1-4.11"1 rear gearing, one was a 383,sbc the other was a 496bbc, youll obviously need to match tire diam. and gearing to match the engines power curve and keep the rpms in top gear reasonable as the car runs thru the lights at the end of the track.


bbc http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.p ... il&p=24613

sbc http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.p ... il&p=24572
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » August 29th, 2011, 10:52 am

I was recently re-reading a magazine article where they compared the results they got on a fairly well designed 383 sbc, from a dual plane , a single plane and a tunnel ram intake induction system,they tested several intakes two different cylinder heads and two different cams, all in all it was a very good article, but it failed to point out that the three different intake designs are best used on three totally different engine combos, now both the single carburetor intakes used the same 750cfm carburetor and the tunnel ram used two 600 cfm carburetors, and I do fully understand that if they changed a bunch of parts they would effectively be testing three or more totally different engines making much of the comparison rather useless., but the engine had both heads and a cam almost perfectly matched to the cam the dual plane intake would match best, thus the single plane did not provide decent hp numbers until both the larger heads and larger cam allowed it to reach more of its flow potential. and the tunnel ram was treated as an after thought,while they freely admitted, that on a street car, two 450cfm carburetors would more than likely provided a crisper response and more torque.
they also admitted not taking the time to really sort out the dual carburetor s or tune the car while it had the tunnel ram intake installed and acted surprised that the tunnel ram made less mid rpm power than either of the single carburetor intakes.
now if your not going to take the time to maximize the intakes potential its hardly surprising that it will not produce to its full potential.
most tunnel ram intakes are a RACE ONLY max effort design made to maximize power in the 5000rpm-7600rpm- and up rpm range so its hardly fair to fault the intake if its used at lower rpms or if its matched to components meant to run at lower rpms.
thats kind of like taking an Olympic distance runner and asking him to compete in weight lifting.
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Ive tuned a good many cars with tunnel ram intakes and when properly set up they do produce better PEAK power levels,and can be made to run decently on a street car application, but they were never designed for off idle rpms or driving in traffic, if you don,t spend 70% of your time with your throttle wide open and your foot on the floor the tunnel ram intake may not be the best choice.
when tuning a tunnel ram you start by jetting all 8 jets equally and generally use a longer accelerator pump shot duration and a higher numerical power valve than a similar single carburetor might. if the carb allows swapping booster,annular boosters usually generate a higher vacuum signal strength from increased air velocity due to their being more restrictive than the down leg boosters, in an identical throttle bore size, allowing the use of larger carburetors and/or larger cams while still retaining good metering stability. This higher signal strength however sometimes requires smaller jetting than an otherwise identical down leg booster carburetor, and your generally not going to get ideal mileage from a properly tuned tunnel ram, as its designed exclusively for max power potential .
yes a tunnel ram may look really cool, yes its very possible to get it to run fairly decent on a street car, but its not likely to be nearly as responsive at low rpms as a good dual plane intake on most street cars, and a tunnel rams not going to run ideally if its set up to progressively open each of the 4 sets of dual carburetor venturies. a tunnel rams designed to feed each runner from the carbs port or venturie located roughly above it so theres a strait line of air flowing from the carburetor venturie to the back of the intake valve in the cylinder head below it, if you disrupt the plenum flow by constantly changing the source of the air/fuel mix into the plenum the intake runners tend to get far from ideal fuel/air distribution, during much of the constantly changing distribution of air flow into the plenum.obviously knowing how to read plugs correctly, having a vacuum gauge, fuel pressure gauge and timing light and a marked damper are mandatory


BTW, in some applications adding a carefully cut and placed screen, under the carburetor spacer can be added too catch debris that might fall into the carburetor,and save you a good deal of engine damage ,(If my experience and those of several friends is what many of you can expect, keep in mind youll occasionally be forced too deal with deliberate sabotage, where morons drop crap into the carburetor's if the car is left UN-attended and easily accessed in some areas) I don,t know why dual carburetor tunnel ram intakes tend to attract morons but Ive seen this on several cars at car shows adding the screens has the potential added benefit that the screen tends to increase fuel air atomization, by breaking up fuel droplets as they enter the plenum, area of the intake, a screen with 1/8" holes has only a minor effect on air flow rates
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RELATED INFO

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/se ... index.html

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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » October 16th, 2011, 11:50 am

one factor you want to keep firmly in mind is that a tunnel ram, is designed for the upper rpm range and REQUIRES high air flow speeds in the runners to maintain a fairly consistent fuel/air ratio in each intake port, this is NOT, something that you can generally maintain unless all 8 carburetor venturies open at exactly the same rate and usually requires equal or nearly equal jet sizes, in an ideal set-up each carburetor venturies roughly centered over an intake runner and the majority of the fuel/air mix drops in a direct strait line from the carburetors individual throttle bore strait to the back of the intake valve in its matched runner, the plenum acts like a reversion buffer and adds extra air flow potential but if theres not almost a direct strait line from the carburetor to the intake valve in the intake runner below it the design is usually subject to fuel/air ratio variations that tend to hurt power.
One other factor is that the intake runners cross sectional area should be no smaller and not much larger than the cylinder heads used, and the cam must have the duration and lift to allow the port to flow to the cylinder heads full potential.this is frequently a miss matched factor
example
lets say your building a 454 big block and your looking at two different tunnel ram intakes , after careful measurement you find your intake valve is 2.19" and has about a 3.45 square inch valve throat area, and that will require a cam with at least a .600 lift and at least a 245 duration to come close to allowing the port to flow to its full potential,the intakes designed to operate above 4500rpm, so you want an intake runner having at least the 3.45 square inch area, anything smaller won,t allow the tunnel ram intake to reach its full flow rate, but anything much larger will just lower port speeds and mid and upper rpm responsiveness to some extent
piston speeds are limited to about 4000fpm-4500fpm, on a 454 with its 4" stroke thats generally going to limit you to about 6800rpm as a absolute safe max if DEPENDABILITY is a long term concern as piston speeds much higher induce considerable increased stress.
A bit of MATH will tell you that a 454 spinning 6800rpm will require about 900-1100cfm flow from the TWO combined carbs,, so in theory two 500cfm-650cfm carbs would be enough but in the real world the reduced vacuum under the carbs effects the flow rates significantly (keep in mind the LOWER flow rate at the reduced vacuum, in the plenum, due to 8 carburetor venturies feeding a single plenum, thus a carb rated at 600cfm used in a dual carburetor config will commonly flow a bit less due to the lower vacuum under the venturies

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5229


A VERY USEFUL set of CALCULATORs

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcdchg.htm
a carb flows less if the plenum vacuum is less

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html

http://www.wallaceracing.com/runnertorquecalc.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/lpv.php

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calccsa.htm

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcplv.htm

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcfps.htm

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcacsa.htm
on the better 23 degree SMALL BLOCK AFTERMARKET HEADS THERE'S ABOUT 5.5 INCHES OF INTAKE PORT LENGTH ON AVERAGE FROM INTAKE GASKET TO THE BACK OF THE INTAKE VALVE AT THE FAR EDGE
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intake runner stack length changes, and to some extent cam timing can be used to tune the torque peaks
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RELATED INFO youll really need

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OFFY CROSS RAM BELOW
yes they are still available new, yes they work rather well once the engines above about 3500rpm if properly set up and tuned
and Ive used them in several engine combos

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AND YES CHEVY AND EDELBROCK USED TO SELL VERY SIMILAR CROSS RAM INTAKES
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BTW heres the cam I usually use with a CROSS RAM APPLICATION
http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.p ... il&p=23968
the cross ram intake REQUIRES an engine with about 11:1-12:1 compression,good headers with a low restriction exhaust, a manual transmission and 3.90:1-4.56:1 rear gears to work correctly, Ive used them mostly on 377 and 406 and 383 displacements with two identical 600cfm carbs, but I know other success full cases using two 450 cfm carbs , just be aware this intakes designed to run in the 3500rpm-7000rpm power band all the time, on a engine with open or low restriction exhaust and a solid lifter or roller cam and heads that flow a minimum of about 250cfm at .500 lift
The Engineering Truth..

The Cross Ram was never intended, nor was it developed (tuned) to be used with the Smog Equipment. The only reason it appeared in the Car Life article (and others) was to satisfy the Corporate mandate to pre-empt any negative connotations derived from the article that might imply Chevrolet was not in sync, or worse yet, ran counter to the Government mandated SMOG laws. It was a risk that Chevrolet could not afford to take for political reasons.

The true intent by Chevrolet was to have the tuner build the Cross Ram equipped 302 in the "recommended" tuned state it was developed for using Chevrolets Tubular Headers with specific timing and tuning considerations - never with the Smog Pump since it was counter indicated for performance which was implied and understood by all race tuners and street racers back in the day.

PERFORMANCE FACTS:

The SMOG Pump is actually a centrifugal AIR pump that forces compressed air into the exhaust manifolds to decrease the hydrocarbons by DILUTION. A totally ineffective smog reducer and supreme power waster that adds extra weight. In fact, you could make the argument that it actually increases pollution due to its inefficiency. No one was fooled by it back in the day.

The Smog Pump will cost you 15 important hp in the lower rpm ranges that you will not want to lose
Use of the equipment prohibits optimum jetting and timing and therefore;
The optimum power/torque distribution curve is not achievable and at best you will end up with a de-tuned 302

Bottom Line - The only reason the 302 appeared in some publications with the Smog Equipment was to appease Corporate Management and placate the Government. Understanding that, if you go with-out the pump as intended, you will benefit from maximum power which is consistent with Chevrolets true intent for the Cross Ram and from a pure nostalgic point of view be in sync with what everyone actually did back in the day. That is the true spirit of the Cross Ram equipped 302.

YES READ THE LINKED INFO ITS WORTH THE EFFORT


http://www.vintagemusclecarparts.com/pa ... sram1.html

http://guinns-engineering.com/Cross%20Ram%20FAQ%27s.htm

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/eng ... index.html

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/03 ... index.html

obviously theres a wide variation in quality and most modern cars with EFI use oxygen sensors used in the exhaust of cars to do this type of sensor work and NOTHING ELECTRONIC in nature lasts forever,but the sensors are used to feed constant data on remaining un-burnt oxygen in the exhaust back to the computer controlling the fuel injector pulse duration,yes in some cases its potentially possible to damage the sensors, sensors normally last 3-6 years in service, but in most cases its not critical if properly installed , and not all that expensive or time consuming to replace them on occasion,so its not a big deal to suggest a dash mounted fuel/air ratio gauge be used as a tuning tool on a carburetor equipped engine, there even several BUILD IT YOURSELF F/A RATIO GAUGES

http://www.scirocco.org/tech/misc/afgauge/af.html

http://www.aces.edu/~parmega/efi/temp/wb/guide.html

http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/A_1716/ ... larArticle

http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/A_0217/ ... larArticle

http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... BCATID=347

http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/store ... cer-manual

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS6olf1o ... ure=fvwrel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RizrDvP8 ... re=related
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » December 19th, 2011, 3:01 pm

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BTW ONE TUNING TRICK used for decades is to install a divide wall made of perforated aluminum to separate the two sides of the tunnel ram plenum as it tends to increase throttle response , and reduce tuning issues, because having it installed greatly reduces the tendency to un-equal fuel distribution , remember the firing order 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2....without the divider wall , 2 tends to steal #1s intake charge just as #4 does from #3 and #6 does from #5, because the follow each other in the firing order and the intake runner entrances are located next to each other in the plenum
with the divider in place there is frequently a noticeable change in many cases in how the plugs look and how the engine runs so its worth it to test in your engine combo, welding in the perforated sheet, plenum divider wall, , is not mandatory but Ii have seen it work rather well in several engines


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few guys realize that many successful racers don,t use tunnel ram intakes in exactly the same condition they came out of the box in, theres tweaks that improve results
welding in a center baffle of perforated aluminum sheet helps increase throttle response and equalize fuel/air ratios between cylinders in many applications

if you look at the plenum youll see that a center baffle prevents most of side by side runner entrances from stealing charge flow from each other by preventing two successive intake ports from drawing from the plenum in the exact same area in rapid succession, a welded in baffle leaves only the 5-7 cylinder stealing charge , while without the baffle the 1-2, 5-7,3-4, 5-6 all have runner entrances pull charge from the plenum in rapid succession,from adjacent runner entrances use of the center baffle is not a huge benefit in all cases, but in SOME applications you see some gains
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby Indycars » December 24th, 2011, 11:45 am

The amount of free flow area would be a tuning device. One could weld in
some U Channel and the vertical sides so that you could slip in different
perforated metal dividers with different hole sizes.

AluminumChannel.jpg



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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » December 24th, 2011, 2:19 pm

the ability to weld in a 3 sided aluminum u-channel so you can easily drop in, and test,and easily exchange different plenum divider walls with a different percentage of open surface areas,is yet, another good idea!,

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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » January 25th, 2012, 11:39 am

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/03 ... index.html

Car Craft, February, 2009
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What's the ultimate naturally aspirated intake-manifold design? Is it a modern single-plane or a tunnel-ram? That's a question we intend to answer with this dyno-test.

The PlayersTunnel-ram intake manifolds made their first known dragstrip appearance on the legendary Ram Chargers "High and Mighty" '49 Plymouth in 1959. A group of hobbyists consisting largely of Chrysler engineers, the Ram Chargers created a new style of manifold by mounting a pair of Carter AFB carburetors over a common plenum and runners made from industrial-grade rubber hose. Thus the first tunnel-ram was born, attached to a 354-inch Hemi. Popular in the '60s and '70s with car crafters, the tunnel-ram enjoyed quite a following until the advent of modern, technologically advanced single four-barrel intakes that offered easier packaging and the simplicity of tuning one carburetor.

In racing classes with no limitations on carburetion, tunnel-rams live on in high-tech sheetmetal and carbon-fiber form. In the ultimate expression of normally aspirated performance, NHRA Pro Stockers are exclusively equipped with tunnel-ram-style induction. But, like most performance components, tunnel-rams are combination specific; we don't recommend slapping one on a 300-inch 8:1 compression engine.

According to Air Flow Research's Tony Mamo, a tunnel-ram-equipped engine should flow more air than one with a conventional single four-barrel intake manifold because it fools the motor into thinking it has better heads-even if the heads are very good. If, on a flowbench, a single four-barrel intake manifold is substituted for a radius plate (normally being attached to the port being tested), it is not uncommon to see significant decreases in flow because of the turn in the runner inherent to a single-plane design.

Our test vehicle was equipped with a Mopar Performance tunnel-ram for W-2 cylinder heads. Unlike its predecessors from the '70s, this modern design is a race unit with relatively short runners. The carburetion perched atop the intake consists of a pair of Holley 650 mechanical secondary double-pumpers equipped with Proform carb bodies. The Proform bodies feature no choke horns, nicely sculpted air entries, down-leg boosters, and screw-in air bleeds. It appeared somewhat cobbled together, but the dyno indicated that the carbs were working pretty well, especially after we got the air/fuel ratio dialed in with the high-speed air bleeds.

To pit the venerable tunnel-ram against a contemporary single-plane design, we had to locate an intake with a large plenum volume. Representing modern single-plane technology is a relative newcomer in the realm of small-block Mopar single-plane intakes. Designed and manufactured by Indy Cylinder Heads, the Indy 360-3 was designed for use with the company's own aluminum small-block cylinder heads, which are similar to the venerable W-2. The W-2, born out of the Pro Stock wars in 1976, is an iron, open-chamber design with oval intake ports featuring relocated pushrod holes that necessitate offset rocker arms. Though designed over two decades ago, they still prove formidable.

The manifold is a direct bolt-on for standard W-2 heads, featuring beautifully shaped runners with consistent port volume and a very large plenum. The high-rise Indy intake promised to give the mighty ram a run for its money, topped with an equally serious Holley 950 HP carburetor. Also a mechanical-secondary double-pumper design, the 950 HP comes with all the features a custom carb shop would equip a race carb with, including screw-in air bleeds, a milled-off choke tower, double-step down-leg boosters, and improved metering circuits. Both intakes represent state-of-the-art technology, and if any single-plane can be a contender in this arena, this is the one.

The TestOne week prior to our showdown, we spent an entire day working the bugs out of our tunnel-ram carburetor combination on Westech's SuperFlow chassis dyno. What we ended up with was a seriously stout small-block posting an output of 532 hp at the rear wheels.

After a thorough engine cooldown, we got to work swapping intakes. Having grown accustomed to the look of the tunnel-ram, a single four-barrel just seemed modest by comparison. Once bolted down, the Holley 950 was mounted, the linkage was connected and adjusted, and the beast was fired. We adjusted the idle and made our first partial pull to determine how far off the fuel mixture was. It looked good enough to pull all the way to 7,000 rpm. The air/fuel ratios were right on the money. No tweaking, no tuning, no jetting, no nothing. Out of the box, the Holley proved lethal. We cooled the Barracuda down and pulled it to 7,300 rpm. We were rewarded with just under 513 hp at the rear wheels. This Indy/Holley combination was proving very effective. We performed a backup pull to make sure the 513 horses weren't a fluke and were handed another 513 hp ticket. No controversy here.

What We learnedWell-designed tunnel-rams work. They make big torque and horsepower everywhere and carry the torque a great distance. You will notice by the dyno charts that the ram produced prodigious amounts of torque and horsepower well past 7,000 rpm, while the single-plane dropped off rather rapidly past its peak of 7,000 rpm. The ram usefully extends the powerband of the engine, enabling you to run a numerically higher gear than you would be able to with a single four-barrel induction. But the tunnel-ram comes with a price. The initial outlay will be significantly greater as the intakes typically cost more, two carburetors must be used, and the necessary linkage must be obtained. Then there's the tuning effort needed to make the system work properly. Do not expect to bolt on a tunnel-ram, set the idle, and go. Considerable toil went into making all of the essential adjustments to the carburetion for the correct fuel metering particularly at high rpm where tuning is even more critical. Then there's the hood clearance issue. The tunnel-ram will more than likely not fit under any stock hood.

As far as the Indy manifold is concerned, we were surprised to find a four-barrel intake that came as close to the output of the tunnel-ram as this one did. Indy certainly did its homework when it produced this clean-slate design. For sheer user-friendliness, look no further than the Indy manifold. We bolted this induction on and laid down well over 500 hp at the wheels. It doesn't get any simpler. Hood clearance with anything more than a 1-inch filter element may be a problem, but the packaging is much more user-friendly than it was with the ram. Indy Cylinder Heads has produced a winner. Not only did it keep the tunnel-ram in sight, it proved much less complex to set up. With the Indy intake, you don't need an expert tuner to get you dialed in. Just bolt it on, make big power and go. For many, that's good enough.

Tunnel-Ram TrendsThe advent of big (large port volume) aftermarket cylinder heads for unlimited racing classes created the need for new-age tunnel-ram designs. How do the modern units differ from the rams of old? Glad you asked. Old-style rams were designed to run at rpm levels typical of the day with available production cylinder heads, which had port volumes a great deal smaller than many of today's aftermarket cylinder heads. The old rams were tall and had long runners that promoted low-end torque. The trend today is for shorter, fatter, tapered runners designed to promote high-rpm horsepower. Tunnel-ram manifold technology has evolved to address this high-rpm need, with vastly improved cylinder heads, cams, and lightweight valvetrains.
Dyno Results
Tunnel-Ram Single-Quad
RPM HP TQ HP TQ
4,000 279.5 365.2 279.7 364.5
4,500 339.2 393.8 328.1 379.3
5,000 410.2 429.5 397.9 413.9
5,200 423.6 429.7 414.7 420.2
5,300 431.1 428.1 429.3 424.3
5,500 444.7 424.4 434.6 414.6
6,000 485.7 422.4 468.7 408.9
6,500 505.8 409.2 491.8 397.0
7,000 529.3 396.1 513.0 383.4
7,100 531.5 392.6 512.6 380.0
7,300 525.0 376.4 463.9 333.9

The CombinationOur '68 Barracuda is packing a 340 between its framerails. Admittedly, a 13.6:1 test engine is on the extreme end of the "street" scale, but what better to test the limitations of an intake with than a high-rpm, high-compression power plant? The combo is as follows:*'69 340 ci plus 0.040 overbore (346 inches)*Arias forged pistons, 13.6:1 compression*Block half filled with Moroso Hard Block*Eagle I-beam connecting rods*Stock forged-steel crankshaft*Comp solid flat-tappet cam, 263/268 @ 0.050-inch valve lift, 0.640/0.640 after lash*Mopar Performance W-2 iron cylinder heads, ported, 2.02/1.60 valves*Crane 1.6:1 roller-rocker arms*Smith Brothers custom-length pushrods*TTI 171/48-inch headers with TTI 3-inch mandrel-bent exhaust system with Goerlich 3-inch welded mufflers *Mallory HyFire VI digital ignition*MSD billet mechanical-advance distributor*Milodon oil pump and pickup*Milodon 7-quart oil pan

Read more: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... z1kUNdv9xm


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heres some new 235cc AFR head ports just what a good tunnel ram intake and a good SOLID roller cam require on a killer sbc to max the air flow into the cylinders, just be aware that heads and a combo that will efficiently use the tunnel ram intake design will require a SOLID LIFTER cam with about .650 plus lift and duration in the 245-265 at .050 lift and tight 106-110 lsa range that matches,that intake flow, that will be designed to operate in the 4500-7800rpm PLUS ranges most of the time and normally a rather large 377-427 displacement and 10.5:1-13:1 compression and open tuned headers
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » September 1st, 2012, 8:53 pm

A few links worth reading thru
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and yes, your engines compression ratio,displacement,cam timing,exhaust headers and intake runner length, plenum volume and runner cross sectional area , ETC.all effect your results, but a properly tuned tunnel ram can make amazing power increases possible on some combos


http://www.superchevy.com/technical/eng ... ewall.html

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/03 ... _contrast/

http://www.profilerperformance.com/raci ... -tunnelram


By Richard Holdener
Super Chevy, December, 2006


When talk turns to tunnel ram intake manifolds, often times it seems they are placed in the same magical category as superchargers and individual-runner injection systems. These trick induction systems are bitchin' to look at and can be found on all manner of race hardware, which obviously means they have no place on a street motor, right?

While the streetability of a trick tunnel ram remains to be seen, we followed along on a comparison test that illustrated that at the very least a tunnel ram is much more than a simple high-rpm race manifold. Often placed in a different category than the more popular single and dual-plane intakes, the tunnel ram actually combines several beneficial design features of the two common intakes to produce what can be (on the right engine combination) the best induction system of the bunch. When you throw in the stunning visual effect of having a polished, dual-carb tunnel ram sticking out in the wind for all to see, the tunnel ram has a great deal to offer any performance big-block.

Intake manifolds for a typical V-8 like our 476 big-block Chevy test motor can be broken down into two basic categories, single plane and dual plane. A complete technical rundown would require more pages than we have available, but know that a dual-plane intake typically features long runners designed to promote low and mid-range torque production while keeping the power peak below 6000 rpm(in most cases).

Dual-plane intakes also effectively divide the V-8 engine into a pair of four cylinders by isolating the fuel and air supplied by the carburetor to each half of the engine. Isolating the two sides improves the signal to the carburetor. Combining the improved signal with the longer runners in the dual-plane, makes for an impressive street system. Dual-plane intakes are also available with the divider directly under the carburetor (used to split the motor) reduced or machined. This obviously does not transform the dual-plane intake into a single plane, but it does effectively shift the power curve (much like the installation of an open carb spacer).

Not surprisingly, single-plane intake manifolds differ from their dual-plane counterparts by way of a common plenum under the carburetor. Single-plane intakes typically offer shorter runners than the dual plane in inmost cases the design necessitates four shorter (inner) runners combined with four longer (outer) runners.

The use of a common plenum and shorter runners enhances high-rpm power. Unfortunately, the extra power production that occurs at the top of the rev range comes at the price of a reduction in power down low. Much like a wilder cam profile, the single plane manifold effectively shifts the torque production higher in the rev range (compared to a dual plane). Producing the same torque value at a higher engine speed will result in an increase in horsepower.

What this all means is that the choice between a single-plane and a dual-plane intake really comes down to the intended application. In most applications, the dual-plane design offers more low-speed power while the single-plane intake maximizes peak power production. For maximum street/strip acceleration (or maximum ultimate speed), the top-end power produced by the single-plane intake is usually the best choice. The dual-plane will provide the best overall torque curve, throttle response and fuel mileage.

Technically speaking, the tunnel ram manifold falls into the single-plane design category, as the tunnel ram shares the common plenum under the carburetor. The difference between the tunnel ram we used from Dart and the single-plane (Edlebrock 454R) was basically the runner length, plenum volume and use of an additional carburetor. The elevated position of the carburetor pad(s) on the tunnel ram allowed for longer and straighter runners, to say nothing of the fact that all eight of the runners were pretty much the same length (a trait not share by the single-plane intake).

The extended runner length helps to promote power production over a given rpm range. Basically speaking, the runner length (combined with cross section and taper) determines where the motor makes power. Naturally the intake runner length (and overall design) should be combined with the proper cam timing and cylinder head flow (and to a smaller extent header design) to optimize power production in a given range. Your choice of intake would certainly be different for a low-rpm towing engine for your dualie than for your 10-second Chevelle. The engine components (including the intake) should all be chosen to help reach a desired power curve to best suit the intended application.
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Speaking of applications, to properly demonstrate the performance merits of the tunnel ram, we needed a cool big-block Chevy test motor. Rather than order a GM crate mill or screw together a rebuilt 454, we took Westech's Steve Brule up on an offer to use the race motor from his record-setting jet boat. The 476 was a serious piece, featuring 13.6:1 compression, CNC-ported heads from AFR and a serious sold roller camshaft. The 476 was basically a .100-over 454 that featured a Scat 4340 forged crank and matching rods combined with a set of JE pistons.

Breathing came from a set of 335cc (intake port volume) AFR aluminum heads. According to the flow bench, the heads flowed 410 cfm at .800 lift (not an unrealistic lift value given the wild cam timing). Comp supplied the hot roller cam (and the remainder of the valvetrain) that featured a .780/.744 lift split and a healthy 282/288 duration split (measured at .050). Additional components used in the build up included a Moroso oiling system (including marine pan and vacuum pump), a complete MSD ignition system (including crank trigger) and a set of 2.25-inch (primary size) Hooker headers.

As mentioned previously, an intake manifold should be chosen for a particular engine combination as well as the intended application. On this particular engine, the effective operating range was rather small, given the fact that the jet boat work much like a high stall converter. Once you hit the throttle to start the quarter-mile pass, the engines speed instantly climbs (up to around 6800 rpm) and the boat accelerates as the flow through the jet pump catches up with the engine speed. This means that the change in engine speed during the run is very minimal (500-800 rpm), and that every attempt should be made to maximize the power production in that rev range.

Having run the motor successfully with a combination of an Edelbrock Super Victor intake (with Dominator car flange) and a Barry Grant 1195 King Demon RS carb, Brule was looking to further improve the power output of his race motor. Given that it made peak power near 7400 rpm and the relatively narrow operating range, Steve decided the engine might be a good candidate for a tunnel ram. As he found out, not only was the tunnel ram impressive at elevated engine speeds, but it shined down low as well.

The first order of business was to establish a baseline with the Super Victor intake and 1195 Barry Grant King Demon carb. Equipped with the single four-barrel, the 476 produced 870 hp and 644 lbs-ft of torque. The power output was impressive considering the relatively small displacement. After successful back up runs produced the same power numbers, we replaced the Super Victor with the Dart tunnel ram and dual 1095 King Demon carbs. The longer runners in the Dart tunnel ram combined with the increased plenum volume and additional breathing offered by the pair of BG carbs to produce some impressive power gains.

Equipped with the Dart tunnel ram and dual King Demons, the 476 pumped out an even 900 horsepower and 670 lbs-ft of torque. Not only did the tunnel ram improve the peak power numbers, but the impressive induction system elevated to power and torque curves from 6000 rpm to 7400 rpm. Basically, the tunnel ram offered more power throughout the tested rev range. At these elevated specific output levels, it is difficult enough to even improve the power output, let alone show consistent gains throughout the rev range. The Dart tunnel ram was definitely the hot set up on this marine motor.

While this particular test was run on a dedicated race motor, we also ran another tunnel ram test on a much milder combination. The test mule was a low-compression 496-inch (.060-over and 4.25 stroker crank) big-block equipped with AFR 315 heads, a mild hydraulic roller cam (255/262 duration) and a set of Hooker Chevelle street headers. It was tested with a single-plane Holley 300-5 intake and a Weiand Hi-Ram (street/strip tunnel ram). The Holley intake was run with a 950 HP carb, while the Hi-Ram was run with a pair of tunnel-ram specific 750 cfm carbs.

Equipped with the single-plane Holley intake, the 496 produced 652 hp at 6300 rpm and 578 lbs-ft at 4800 rpm. After swapping on the Weiand Hi-Ram, the peak power numbers jumped to 687 hp and 618 lbs. ft. of torque. As with the 476 race motor, the tunnel ram improved the power output of the 496 stroker throughout the rev range (from 3000 rpm to 6500 rpm), further illustrating the impressive low-speed and mid-range power offered by the long-runner design.

Of course all the extra power comes with the cost of cutting a hole in your hood, but hood scoops are cool too, especially when they cover a trick (and effective) dual-carb tunnel ram.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » September 4th, 2012, 9:14 am

heres some rather good pictures of a comparison between a couple wieand tunnel ram intake designs, the PRO-RAM, (RIGHT SIDE) that was designed originally as an individual runner intake that would mount a HOLLEY 4500 carburetor , but was later modified to add a plenum , and adapted to the smaller Holley carburetor bolt pattern mount size, when it was realized that the individual 4500 throttle bore diameter was restricting power potential, and the later wieand tunnel ram (LEFT SIDE) designed for the smaller 4160 type Holley carburetor s with a true plenum


BOTH INTAKES CAN HAVE IMPROVED FLOW WITH SOME PORTING WORK

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NOTICE THE INTERNAL MOUNT BOLTS SECURING THE PLENUM TO THE BASE THAT OCCASIONALLY GOT LOOSE CAUSING MAJOR PROBLEMS AND THE OFF SET RUNNER ENTRANCE ON THE PRO-RAM

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EARLIER PRO-RAM ABOVE, LATER HIGH RAM BELOW


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ABOVE AND BELOW YOU SEE WHERE THE TUNNEL RAM INTAKE WAS CONVERTED TO USE INJECTORS CONVERTING IT INTO MPFI
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OBVIOUSLY THE PREVIOUS CARBURETORS WOULD BE REPLACED WITH A PAIR OF MATCHING THROTTLE BODYS, the advantage of course is direct port fuel injection and ore precise and even fuel distribution, and a more responsive engine once properly tuned

BUT A DEDICATED STACK EFI INJECTION manifold HAS ADVANTAGES in that stack length effectively changing the tuned rpm range are available
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porting helps flow significantly, this is a SIMILAR SBC STEALTH RAM BASE BUT YOU CAN SEE SIMILAR MODS CAN BE DONE
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » October 15th, 2013, 1:52 pm

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many tunnel ram intakes can be adapted, by a decent machine shop, to dual throttle bodys and injection, vs carb use
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a decent machinist can make custom runner extensions for most tunnel ram intake designs and for a limited few common designs they are available commercially already
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obviously you will need to carefully port match some intakes to some head ports due to the wide variation in sizes and shapes

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shop carefully theres a big variation in both runner cross sectional areas and runner length and plenum volume, all effect the power range where they operate efficiently
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » November 1st, 2013, 6:29 pm

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » May 12th, 2014, 12:35 pm

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some of the intake CASTINGS like the DART tunnel rams for the big block chevy are designed for reasonably easy conversion to mpfi
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » June 5th, 2014, 9:17 pm

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edelbrock recently came out with an improved tunnel ram designed to use throttle 4500 size bodys and injectors for the BBC rectangle port heads part #70855 for roughly $600 for the base
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-70855
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7086 top plate $200
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-3659 fuel rail kit $150
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7077 throttle linkage $140
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-3879 DOMINATOR THROTTLE BODYS $500 EACH
youll still need a controller and sensors and a wire harness
65lb-85 lb injector sets should cost in the $400-450 range if you shop, and while that setup is not cheap its competitively priced
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » April 9th, 2015, 9:12 am

540Hotrod wrote:I drilled the intake and *fit* the bungs to the intake...then took it to a little local welding shop to have them heliarced and add some braces for the fuel rails to bolt to. I don't have a heliarc welder. Worked out great.
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JIM


Theres ALWAYS been and will likely always be a constantly expanding list of expensive shop tools most of us wish we could afford,use and learn to use with the skills to make most of the guys we sub out work too delirious,with envy, I don,t know about you but I hate to pay out cash for work to be done simply because I don,t own the tools to do it myself!
I'm also one of the guys that likes to see custom fabricated components that exactly match an application, that were carefully hand fitted and clearanced by someone who understands how and why the works correctly done! rather than a bunch of off the shelf parts that were just unpacked and bolted together.
but I don,t know anyone whose purchased a good TIG welder that regrets spending the cash. I went out and purchased a used tig decades ago, now Ill be the first guy to admit theres much better choices now, but at the time it seemed to be a valid choice.

I bought a ANCIENT 1980s TIG 330 amp welder used for a bit less than $1000 with a liquid cooled torch and accessories ,GAUGES , it may be old but it TIG welds just fine, and has paid for itself many time over in that length of time
Image

Id buy one of these TIGS now
http://www.htpweld.com/products/tig_welders/tig201.html
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby philly » April 12th, 2015, 12:50 pm

cant seem to find pricing on those tigs grumpy... but i imagine i would have to sell the vette to own one.
-phil

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Re: tuning a tunnel ram intake

Postby grumpyvette » April 12th, 2015, 8:55 pm

Ill get you current pricing monday, I'll call but the last couple guys I know who bought one said they were several hundred dollars less than a comparable miller or lincon TIG, and had a bit better features for the money.
Call us at 800-USA-WELD (800-872-9353) for more information or to place an order.
THE PREVIOUS 201 IS NOW DISCONTINUED
its been replaced with an upgraded 221 TIG $3520 THIS INCLUDES THE LIQUID COOLED TORCH AND TORCH'S COOLANT FLUID PUMP
http://www.usaweld.com/TIG-WELDER-Inver ... 12.5-3.htm
WATCH VIDEO s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i14t_CDMMQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZMDAV87gn0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Hm08GIBro

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REMEMBER the LIQUID COOLED TORCH AND COOLANT PUMP PURCHASED SEPARATELY ,GENERALLY ADDS $1200-$1500 to a TIG WELDER and its a VERY GOOD OPTION TO HAVE


COMPARE TO MILLER 210 $3520 KEEP IN MIND THIS IS A AIR COOLED TIG < YOU WOULD NEED TO UPGRADE TO A WET TORCH AND COOLANT PUMPMaxstar 200 DX: Complete Pkg w/Foot Control (Water Cooled)
Maxstar 200 DX power source
Quick Reference Guide: English | Spanish
8 ft (2.4 m) primary cord
2-Wheel trolley cart (300480)
Coolmate™ 1 cooler 120 VAC (300360)
1 Gallon coolant (043810)
RFCS-14HD foot control (194744)
25 ft (7.6 m) Weldcraft® WP20 water cooled torch (300185)
Torch accessory kit with tungsten includes:
- Shielding cups
- Collets-1/16, 3/32, 1/8
- Collet bodies-1/16, 3/32, 1/8
- 2% Cerium tungsten-1/16, 3/32, 1/8
15 ft (4.6 m) Work lead with clamp and Dinse connector
Gas hose
Smith Regulator/flowmeter
Torch cable cover
Setup DVD $4,429.00

http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merch ... Code=m-tig

COMPARE TO LINCOLN 225 $2525 KEEP IN MIND THIS IS A AIR COOLED TIG < YOU WOULD NEED TO UPGRADE TO A WET TORCH AND COOLANT PUMP
http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merch ... Code=l-tig
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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