Aluminum tubing for fuel lines



Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby legerwn » December 26th, 2012, 10:11 am

Whats your thoughts on using aluminum tubing for fuel lines?

Looking over the internet some suggest not using it due to hardening and becoming brittle but the retailers offer it as a replacement.

Not interested in adding a sump to my tank but would like to add a couple of fuel cell bulkhead fittings to help the electric pump out so it don't have to lift the fuel.

Was also going to add a small baffle to the internal of the tank around the bulkhead fittings to reduce the chance of fuel leaving the area around the bulkhead fittings when the fuel level gets low.

Read where grumpyvette has the local hose shop make fuel lines for him, may go talk with them and see what they can do.

thanks
Neal
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby grumpyvette » December 26th, 2012, 10:35 am

Ive seen lots of guys use aluminum fuel line, but Ive also seen several failures , aluminum is not nearly as resistant to wear and vibration damage as steel nor as flexible and easy to used as the stainless braid covered synthetic fuel line, with the crimped on AN style fittings that many hydraulic supply shops can fabricate to your exact specifications.
Image

IF YOU PREFER HARD LINES I,D SUGGEST USING STEEL OR STAINLESS STEEL FUEL LINES OF THE APPROPRIATE DIAMETER.
Image
Image
Image

BTW alcohol in fuel tends to cause aluminum to oxidize over time

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=211&p=23798&hilit=tube+bending#p23798

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=6353&p=20014&hilit=tube+bending#p20014

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1030&p=11111&hilit=bending+flaring#p11111

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1660&p=4018&hilit=bending+flaring#p4018

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4381&p=16285&hilit=flex+fuel+line#p16285

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=7787&p=28270&hilit=an+fittings#p28270

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1939&p=26684&hilit=an+fittings#p26684

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5731&p=17488&hilit=an+fittings#p17488
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby DorianL » December 27th, 2012, 5:46 am

I had aluminum fuel lines once... never again!
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby mathd » December 27th, 2012, 11:03 am

DorianL wrote:I had aluminum fuel lines once... never again!

why?
you scaring me there lol. i have only 1 aluminium line its my fuel return.
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby Indycars » December 27th, 2012, 12:26 pm


Where were all these comments when I brought up ALUMINUM FUEL LINES ???
Please more details for or against !!!

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=7787&start=20

I could still change, since I have not installed anything, but I could NOT find a
source for 1/2 inch steel lines.


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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby grumpyvette » December 27th, 2012, 1:06 pm

why not carefully measure each section youll need and have a local hydraulic hose supply fabricate you each section with the ends required, its usually not expensive or time consuming, in fact I usually go down with a few connectors or ends to show them exactly what I need in threads or connectors and a diagram like the one you posted earlier and I label the diagram and make a list showing what each section length and the type of connectors to be used, I walk in, and with in 30-45 minutes walk out with every custom section I need the custom fabricated flex hose with ends ans stainless braid that will handle 300 psi and 300F temps with no problem
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby grumpyvette » December 27th, 2012, 1:13 pm

why not carefully measure each section youll need and have a local hydraulic hose supply fabricate you each section with the ends required, its usually not expensive or time consuming, in fact I usually go down with a few connectors or ends to show them exactly what I need in threads or connectors and a diagram like the one you posted earlier
Image


and I label the diagram and make a list showing what each section length and the type of connectors to be used, I walk in, and with in 30-45 minutes walk out with every custom section I need the custom fabricated flex hose with ends and made from hydraulic hose compatible with fuel, with stainless braid outer covering that will handle 300 psi and 300F temps with no problem.
I don,t remember exact cost on my last race car, but it had several short sections with swivel ends and two longer sections of fuel line with ends all in 1/2" inside diameter and all together all the sections cost me less than $120-$130 if Im remembering correctly
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby Indycars » December 27th, 2012, 2:08 pm


Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that the inside of the SS lines had a limited
life time and needed to be changed every few years.

Another reason would be the abrasive nature of the SS braid against my
wires that are also inside the frame.

So far I have not heard what's wrong with using aluminum fuel lines.

Rick
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- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby grumpyvette » December 27th, 2012, 2:51 pm

the better quality flex, fuel line supplied by the local hydraulic supply, has an inner plastic /teflon layer that prevents the fuel from seeping thru and degrading the outer layers, I,ve yet to see one of those custom fabricated lines leak if it was professionally fabricated.
aluminum fuel line tends to get stress fractures where its flared, its like it has a memory of the stress its seen when stretched, that can cause cracks later if the line is located where it is subjected to vibration, Ive seen many guys use it without issues but Ive also seen cases where fittings just cracked off.
you might want to have a discussion with a local professional hydraulic line supply dealer.
Image

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpTMtqn2Pgo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwmvRWuAwno
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby Indycars » December 27th, 2012, 3:07 pm


Did some research and found this article.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... ewall.html

Rick
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- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby Indycars » December 27th, 2012, 4:06 pm


Ok, that's the first I've heard about aluminum tubing problems. I guess it time
to go back to the drawing board and re-consider my options, the lose of $25 worth
of aluminum tubing is minor. I don't want to use a SS braid on the outside because
of the abrasion it might cause on my electrical wiring that will be inside the frame
with the fuel line. But there should be plenty of options for the outside layer.

Sorry legerwn, didn't mean to highjack your thread!

Rick
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- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby 87vette81big » December 27th, 2012, 7:21 pm

Indycars wrote:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that the inside of the SS lines had a limited
life time and needed to be changed every few years.

Another reason would be the abrasive nature of the SS braid against my
wires that are also inside the frame.

So far I have not heard what's wrong with using aluminum fuel lines.



Aluminum Fuel Lines can crack under hard street & race use.
I have used aluminum fuel line, MOROSO brand.
Its inexpensive, but like Grumpy mentioned earlier, it has very poor abrasion resistance. Once the exterior of aluminum fuel line is heavily scratched or nicked during installation, you set up a perfect failure point.
If you choose to use aluminum fuel line, check it weekly. Lay on your back with a flashlight or with your car on a lift.
I would not choose to use aluminum fuel line on a car with 500 horsepower & matching 500 ft/lbs at the crankshaft flywheel. Reason why is at this power level, the torque of the engine is also twisting the entire floor pan & frame rails. And it does happen without a professionally engineered & TIG welded 10 to 14 point drag race roll cage.
The twisting floor pan & frame rails stress the aluminum line, its annealed to make for easy bending during installation, and driveline vibration at WOT loads sets up harmonic vibrations in that aluminum fuel line. Becomes a long giant tuning fork.

Its much safer using Areoquip or Earl's brand braided fuel line. I prefer stainless braiding. Old School. But its 100 % reliable & very strong.
Its true there is a limited lifespan, should be checked every 2 years. If a racecar, replace entire braided lines every 2 to 5 years.
Internal Teflon lined Stainless braided race hose is good for 10 to 20 years +.
The proper Fuel; line is imperitive for your driving & hard core race use Safety.
Dieing in a gasoline or Methanol alcohol fire because poor choices were made during fuel system planning & installation is a very bad way to go.
I met Arnie Beswick of Pontiac Racing fame at his house in Morrison, IL 6 months after his tragic race car fire accident.
Terrible burns. He has recovered. Constant reminder of safety & not being stupid when building a high performance street machine & all out race car.
He raced, Arnie for 50 some years, watched him run into 6's in 1/4 at over 200mph. Till one day things went all wrong.

BR
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby 87vette81big » December 27th, 2012, 8:21 pm

Indycars wrote:
Did some research and found this article.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... ewall.html



Took time to read the Hotrod article on performance fuel lines.
Lots of great info. Learned new Facts.
Thanks !
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby DorianL » December 28th, 2012, 4:54 am

87vette81big wrote:
Aluminum Fuel Lines can crack under hard street & race use.
I have used aluminum fuel line, MOROSO brand.
Its inexpensive, but like Grumpy mentioned earlier, it has very poor abrasion resistance. Once the exterior of aluminum fuel line is heavily scratched or nicked during installation, you set up a perfect failure point.
If you choose to use aluminum fuel line, check it weekly. Lay on your back with a flashlight or with your car on a lift.
I would not choose to use aluminum fuel line on a car with 500 horsepower & matching 500 ft/lbs at the crankshaft flywheel. Reason why is at this power level, the torque of the engine is also twisting the entire floor pan & frame rails. And it does happen without a professionally engineered & TIG welded 10 to 14 point drag race roll cage.
The twisting floor pan & frame rails stress the aluminum line, its annealed to make for easy bending during installation, and driveline vibration at WOT loads sets up harmonic vibrations in that aluminum fuel line. Becomes a long giant tuning fork.


Exactly what happened to me. I did not check regularly under the car... I was alerted to my issue by the distinct smell of gas. Toss in the electric fuel pump... : - /

NEVER again will I use aluminum. I now only use the highest grade steel braid for appropriate use.
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby legerwn » December 28th, 2012, 11:53 am

Indycars wrote:
Ok, that's the first I've heard about aluminum tubing problems. I guess it time
to go back to the drawing board and re-consider my options, the lose of $25 worth
of aluminum tubing is minor. I don't want to use a SS braid on the outside because
of the abrasion it might cause on my electrical wiring that will be inside the frame
with the fuel line. But there should be plenty of options for the outside layer.

Sorry legerwn, didn't mean to highjack your thread!



Didn't highjack this is exactly what I was looking for and wanting to see,

great discussions,

Neal
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Re: Aluminum tubing for fuel lines

Postby grumpyvette » December 28th, 2012, 12:04 pm

[quote="Indycars"]
Ok, that's the first I've heard about aluminum tubing problems. I guess it time
to go back to the drawing board and re-consider my options, the lose of $25 worth
of aluminum tubing is minor.[color=#00FF00] I don't want to use a SS braid on the outside because
of the abrasion it might cause on my electrical wiring that will be inside the frame
with the fuel line. But there should be plenty of options for the outside layer.



seems like wrapping the outer stainless braid on the fuel line, and the wiring with a separate layer of electrical tape and/or one or both in plastic sleeve would cure that issue


Image
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access ... e/_/N-25g5
theres also woven tube sleeve for electrical wiring that is designed for high heat Resistance
Image
http://www.jegs.com/p/Mr-Gasket/Mr-Gask ... 1/10002/-1
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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