Franzinator Air Dryer



Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby Indycars » February 8th, 2012, 11:34 am

I can't imagine it not working and providing a significant reduction in moisture.

Is the freon tank where you will drain the condensed water? Will the fan come on automatically with the compressor or will it be switched manually and only when the extra drying is needed?


This is the only thing that stopped me from finishing last night. I looked high and low and could not find the flare nut to make the last connection. Wish I knew where that damn thing was hiding!!!

FlareNut.jpg


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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby grumpyvette » February 8th, 2012, 12:20 pm

Indycars wrote:I can't imagine it not working and providing a significant reduction in moisture.

Is the freon tank where you will drain the condensed water?



yes



Will the fan come on automatically with the compressor
yes, if condenser coil temp hits 100f it turns on automatically and turns off at 80F

or will it be switched manually and only when the extra drying is needed?


This is the only thing that stopped me from finishing last night. I looked high and low and could not find the flare nut to make the last connection. Wish I knew where that damn thing was hiding!!!

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby Indycars » February 9th, 2012, 10:30 am


Ok, just to pull it all together in one post. Here are the parts that I started with.

FranzPartsID_1851.jpg


I ground the inside of the bushing so that I could slide the 1/2" pipe nipple through the bushing.

FranzRemoveMaterial_1841.jpg


This is how it would look before installing into the 2" Tee.

FranzSubAssembly01_1846.jpg


While working with this sub-assembly it looked like I might be able to unscrew the assembly at the 2" x 3/4" reducing bushing, so I filed the edges of the elbow to help with this. I won't know if it possible to remove this way until someday I try it. It was easy enough, only took a few minutes with a file.

TaperedElbow_1868.jpg


I slide the 1/2 x 6" nipple in, screwed the 1/2" Elbow on. Then I pushed it in until the elbow touched the back of the Tee and applied JB Weld to nipple and pulled it back, thus spreading the JB between the bushing and nipple.

AdditionalJBWeld_1864.jpg


Immediately I screwed the 2" x 16" nipple onto the Tee and put the assembly in the vise so I could center the elbow in the 2" pipe. Let it harden for 24 hours.

NozzleInPipe_1855.jpg


The next day I added more JB to the inside which was harder to do now that the elbow was centered in the tee. I also added JB on the outside between the bushing and nipple.

JBWeldOutside_1862.jpg


The completed Franzinator Air Dryer. Later I will remove the coupling from the nipple extending from the Tee and use a flare fitting with female threads. Look in the installed pictures below, you can see the difference there.

FranzinatorAssembled_1887.jpg


Below in the completed compressor and air dryer assembly.

CopperTubeRouting01_1895.jpg


Notice the bushing is gone from the nipple, makes for a cleaner installation. I was happy with the accuracy of the tubing bender, you can measure the distances and make bends that come out where you want them. The short piece going from the compressor pump to the dryer was my first two bends, so it's not as square as I would like. I can go back now and trim one end to make it shorter and and re-flare, that will fix that problem.

CopperTubeRouting02_1896.jpg


Once I'm happy with everything, I will take the dryer apart and seal all the pipe threads and possibly paint it.

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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby grumpyvette » February 9th, 2012, 10:53 am

now all you need is to run the compressor for a couple hours intermittently and see if the thing functions up to your expectations

please post results after youve tested the fabricated water separation system in actual use, after a couple hours of run time., and let me know both how it works, how much water is trapped and drained and if any moisture was collected in the main storage tank, that managed to get passed the water separation device ?
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby grumpyvette » February 11th, 2012, 7:48 pm

well the first temporary test configuration and install proved to be a defective design needing modification,the feed tube diam. leaving the condenser and feeding into the water capture separation tank in the as delivered test assembly was FAR too restrictive to allow the dual compressors to flow enough air volume thru the air conditioning condenser , ,the test assembled air drier and heat exchanger showed some promise, air entered at 150F plus and exits at room temps,but the assembly had been assembled in its test form using a short section of 1/4" diam copper feed tube which was far ..far to restrictive, to allow significant or adequate flow rates , as my B.I.L. used what he had handy, during fabrication, I pointed that out and Ill have that swapped to a minimum of 3/8" diam shortly, the basic config seems promising but there were a few rather obvious areas needing changes
Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby Indycars » February 12th, 2012, 12:52 pm

grumpyvette wrote:now all you need is to run the compressor for a couple hours intermittently and see if the thing functions up to your expectations

please post results after you've tested the fabricated water separation system in actual use, after a couple hours of run time., and let me know both how it works, how much water is trapped and drained and if any moisture was collected in the main storage tank, that managed to get passed the water separation device ?

I had a couple of leaks to fix, the first one just needed an O-Ring, but this other one maybe a little harder.

I suspect that I won't be able to buy the diaphragm, so patching it will be my best option. I'm thinking of treating it like a inner tube and patching it the same way, although I'm a bit concerned about the change in flexibility of the diaphragm.

Will post some results when I get the project completed.

ShutOffDiaphragm1904.jpg
DiaphragmPinHole1906.jpg


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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby Indycars » February 12th, 2012, 4:34 pm

I think this will work and fit the budget for $28, instead of trying to fix the original one.

PressureSwitch-Condor.jpg


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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby Indycars » February 14th, 2012, 10:14 am


I decided to give repairing the diaphragm a shot. I applied the RTV in the picture and used the scraper
to force the RTV into the hole while I held it stretched out. Then I put a layer on the other side and
let it cure for 24 hours.

So far it's held and it saved me $28, since I didn't have to purchase the pressure switch above in an
earlier post. But who knows how long it will last, I might be at Grainger's next week buying the
new switch anyway........ OR it might out live me. :D

DiaphragmRepair_1908.jpg



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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby grumpyvette » February 14th, 2012, 11:59 am

good luck, that repair may work but I would have tried a patch over the sealant like a bit of plastic wrap stuck on the surface as an extra layer, BTW hows the ( Franzinator Air Dryer) WORKING
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby Indycars » February 14th, 2012, 4:27 pm

grumpyvette wrote:good luck, that repair may work but I would have tried a patch over the sealant like a bit of plastic wrap stuck on the surface as an extra layer, BTW hows the ( Franzinator Air Dryer) WORKING


I was thinking of a inner tube patch, but thought that might be too stiff. Your idea would have added
a layer without stiffing the diaphragm, but it's done for now. I'm NOT going to deal with that spring
and trying to hold it together while at the same time start screws again.
That will teach you
patients, if you don't commit suicide first. :lol:

So far I've not gotten much water from the Franzinator. The temp going in is too hot to touch, but
room temperature as it enters the tank.

With ambient temperatures in the 30-45 F range, there is just not much water vapor in the air
right now. Yesterday it was in the 20's and 100%RH, but I was still getting shocked when I touched
something metal. This spring should be a different story, for example.......................

If there are 30 (grains/lb of air) at 45 F and 70% RH........compared to 146 (grains/lb of air)
at 85 F and 80% RH. There would be 4.9 times more water and therefore a much bigger
problem in the spring time.

Psychrometric-Chart_ZoomRegion01.jpg
PsychrometicExample01.jpg



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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby grumpyvette » February 14th, 2012, 6:35 pm

that graph made hundreds of old home work style memories of college work, and lab assignments come flashing thru my mind like bad night mare flash backs, I was great at memorizing most stuff and geometry was a breeze but calculus always made me crazy
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby Indycars » February 14th, 2012, 7:13 pm

grumpyvette wrote:that graph made hundreds of old home work style memories of college work, and lab assignments come flashing thru my mind like bad night mare flash backs, I was great at memorizing most stuff and geometry was a breeze but calculus always made me crazy

Sorry if that caused you any discomfort! :D

Geometry and trigometry are more concrete and logical, where Calculus is more abstract. I couldn't
do anything with Calculus now, but geometry and trig are still useful occasionally.

Rick
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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby grumpyvette » February 21st, 2012, 7:37 pm

well? hows your air drier working out?,

IM currently fabricating test version 2 , because the version one built by my B-I-L failed to work correctly, so were building something similar to your design, hopefully it will work .
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby Indycars » February 21st, 2012, 8:00 pm


I've run the compressor......guessing maybe 45 minutes. Yesterday I open the garage because we were getting a light rain. When I drained both the air dryer and and the compressor tank I got about 1/2 teaspoon from each. Maybe slightly more from the compressor tank.

There just doesn't seem to be much moisture in the air right now.

I just got my Extech 42545, so maybe I can add more info in a few days.

Painted_1933.jpg
Painted_1932.jpg


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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby Indycars » February 22nd, 2012, 7:29 pm

I emptied the tank and held open a blow gun for the entire 10 minute test. Then took temperature reading every 2 minutes at the 3 locations shown in the picture. After 10 minutes the head temp was 230F.

I added a 6" copper extension to the 90 degree elbow, this might have been the wrong thing to do.The hottest location anywhere on the air dryer was about 2" below where the 6" extension ended.

TempTable.jpg
Temps_1935.jpg



I'm not sure if this tells us anything, what do you make of it?

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Re: Franzinator Air Dryer

Postby grumpyvette » February 22nd, 2012, 8:43 pm

Image
the pressurized line between compressor and franzinator (SEE GREEN ARROW) is obviously pushing hot air containing moisture in suspension into the franzinator which in theory separates the water from the air by both slowing and rapidly cooling the air, allowing the moisture to condense, get heavy and fall out of the air flow where its trapped and later drained, so the problem is obviously that the air needs to rapidly be reduced in temperature from the 200F plus range it leaves the compressor at to as low as possible as it enters the franzinator and even lower as it leaves to enter the holding tank. this can be accomplished much more effectively in several ways...example

Image

did you notice the dozens of washers on this guys feed tube, they are there to act as a heat dispersal set of fins greatly increasing the exposed surface area, hes also wrapped the franzinator in a tube constantly absorbing heat into a flow of cold water encircling the franzinator and insulated from outside heat.

Image
Image
now obviously adding a 50 foot coil of copper tubing to replace the tubing at the green arrow location and a fan would drastically reduce the air temp of the compressed air to near room temps, increasing efficiency, just like a spare oil cooler could be used
Image
but in an ideal world the copper coil would be routed into the freezer compartment of a spare refrigerator then out to the franzinator where the water would almost certainly drop out easily at near freezing temps
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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