first mig welder



first mig welder

Postby grumpyvette » May 26th, 2014, 4:41 pm

quikss wrote:So I'm looking to purchase my first welder. I plan to do the body on my 69, as well as fix the lower doors on my truck. Beyond that I foresee doing plenty of welding making carts and such for working on and moving around large generators in my shop.
After doing some research it appears the Miller 180 might suit my needs. I plan on taking some welding classes at the local tech school, but I guess I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this unit and will it suit my needs? I plan to stick with Miller, their world hq is 2 miles from my business and I have a lot of friends employed there and I'd like to support them.
Jeff


heres a few tips
If you have a hard time judging MIG wire diameter or sheet metal gauges, they make a tool for that little issue in lack of judgmental skills
even the $20 import version is accurate enough for that use!
Image
this link might be useful
http://www.engineersedge.com/gauge.htm
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http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-dial-caliper-66541.html
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Just a bit of education here, Ive never claimed to be a great welder but Ive been welding on car repairs like accessory brackets spring perches and sheet metal body work etc.for over 4 decades so, heres a few things wou might want to know
youll need to RENT or BUY a shield gas tank ,buy gauges,and several types of mig wire.

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1283
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1108
that miller 180 will most likely meet your needs but Id be remiss unless I brought up a point many guys new to welding seem to be clueless about and thats , checking out the welders DUTY CYCLE

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this is one of the reasons cheap welders you see at discount pricing tend to not be worth much.
lets look at some facts
most of the better welders will be rated at some amp level, like your 180 miller, thats rated at 180 amps max and its rated at 230 volts BUT look carefully
THE MILLER 180 your looking at
Rated Output
135 A at 22.5 VDC, 30% Duty Cycle

Welding Amperage Range
30 - 180 Amps

http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=907312&Category_Code=M



IF you spend $200 more you get a miller 211 RATED AT 210 AMPS
http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=907422&Category_Code=M

Rated Output
* 150 A at 23.5 VDC, 30% duty cycle (230V)
* 90 A at 20 VDC, 20% duty cycle (120V)

Welding Amperage Range
* 30 - 210 Amps

if you really needed 180 amps most of the time (YOU DON,T)
YOU WOULD NEED A MILLER 252 MIG

Rated Output
200 Amps at 28 VDC, 60% duty cycle
250 Amps at 28 VDC, 40% duty cycle

Welding Amperage Range
30 - 300 Amps
http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=907321&Category_Code=M


keeping mig wire rust free is the key,most quality mig wires lightly copper wash coated, if your not using the spool put it in a re-sealed 2 gallon zip lock plastic bag, laid on a couple sheets of paper towel with WD40 lightly sprayed on the towels, it will last for years sealed like that
Image
Image
http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/61271-mig-w ... -4695.html
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPA ... M=328-4695

http://www.gowelding.org/MIG_Welding.html

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/mig ... ip-13.html

http://www.eastwood.com/blog/eastwood-c ... -mig-weld/
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: first mig welder

Postby philly » May 26th, 2014, 8:53 pm

its like you're clairvoyant grumpy... i was just reading all your welder threads earlier today because the hobart 190 is on sale at northern...

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200482227

its rated at 30%duty cycle at 130A which i think would suit my needs of welding mild steel exhaust pipes and aluminum intercooler piping... but how exactly do we know how many amps are necessary for a given material or thickness? isnt that dependent on the machine?
-phil

There's never enough money to build it right, but there's always enough to build it twice!
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Re: first mig welder

Postby NOT A TA » May 26th, 2014, 11:15 pm

My Lincoln weld Pak 3200 is rated for 90 A - 19V @ 20% duty cycle but is capable of higher outputs at lower duty cycle. Gets the job done for most things but I've been looking on CL etc. for a bigger 220V model to use on heavier gauge steel..
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Re: first mig welder

Postby grumpyvette » May 27th, 2014, 8:17 am

now obviously what type of work you do will determine to a great extent what would be the best match in a MIG welder to YOUR particular application, and it makes little sense to but a welder with capacity youll never use or one youll constantly be waiting on, to allow it to cool off.
in reality youll seldom need to exceed more than about a 60% duty cycle at the rated amps youll be using even on a job where your almost constantly welding, because in reality even when busy welding theres constant stops for repositioning . aligning parts, checking fit, angles etc. so youll want to know what amp range your actually going to be using, the wire diam. the chart below will be helpful

Image

first, lets say your welding mostly body sheet metal, thats 18 gauge,we can see from the chart we would most likely use .030 wire and about 120 amps
how did I get 120 amps, well the range on the chart suggests 90-145 amps, thats a 55 amp range , add half of 55 to the lower 90 amps puts you at 118 amps so its a safe bet that I will use .030 wire at about 120 amps and adjust the wire speed to match, now looking at welders you would want a welder that would handle 120 amps at at least 40% duty cycle in my opinion, the miller 180 would most likely do that, but if you were welding .125 thick roll cage, or frame section, material, you would be in a far different amp and duty cycle range, do the calculations
heres the duty cycle chart on my 252 miller mig, notice as the amps go down the duty cycle increases, thats going to be similar on all welders to some extent
what the chart basically shows on my miller 252, is that if I select 150 amps or less I can get a 100% duty cycle, something youll never need btw but its also pointing out that having a welder with a bit higher amp rated capacity has a big advantage of your using it constantly, as youll seldom need to wait for the welder to cool or risk PERMANENT AND EXPENSIVE damage too it by over heating it by exceeding the duty cycle
Image

a 180 -210 amp miller MIG will handle almost anything you can imagine in standard steel welding jobs , on most cars,and its going to have the capacity to handle most of the heavier gauge metal components (like the spring/shock towers pictured below) that a 120 volt 140 MIG would be hard pressed to handle well,but if your only doing sheet metal like floor boards and fenders youll seldom need that extra AMP capacity, yet Id point out that having the capacity is no handicap, and you'll be amazed at how often you find the need to weld components that require a 120-160 amps if you do heavier mods like brackets on differentials and frames. youll probably never exceed 160 amps on a car, but keep in mind, purchasing the higher amp rating,welder is NOT just increasing the potential amps, you can use welding, it tends to greatly increase the useable DUTY CYCLE, at the lower amp draws thus a 210 amp machine can run virtually constantly at 70-90 amps while a 140 amp rated welder needs constant periods of non-use to cool between welds, if used at those amp levels you might also consider the fact that ALUMINUM can be welded with the better MIG and TIG WELDERS, but aluminum requires much higher AMPS as it cools , and absorbs heat far faster, thus asking a few questions about accessories and duty cycles and the capacity to weld aluminum if the correct accessories are purchased is a very good idea PRIOR TO BUYING A WELDER

welding larger components like these pictures that were posted below is really best done with a 180 amp or higher capacity welder
Image
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: first mig welder

Postby philly » May 27th, 2014, 5:07 pm

thanks for the insight, i cant wait to get enough coin to scratch together to pick one up and start running up my electric bill! haha! by the way what are the effects on your bill when you use the welder alot? we all have FPL so im sure our power costs are similar....
-phil

There's never enough money to build it right, but there's always enough to build it twice!
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Re: first mig welder

Postby 87vette81big » May 27th, 2014, 6:11 pm

I am still dreaming of that Lincoln Portable AC/DC Welding Rig with a Kohler Gas engine.
18 HP. 8-9KV.
Then a Lincoln TIG Inverter High Frequency Attachment.
I have 2 Miller TIG's I can borrow. A 120 VAC & 220 VAC.
But I want my own Grumpy.
Hoping for a few good side jobs this summer.
Like You Grumpy.
Make an extra $2-5 K Be good for both of us.
You can build your Welding table. 4-link Dana 60 your C4.
Put my 4-link Poncho 9.3 together in my C4 vette.
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Re: first mig welder

Postby grumpyvette » May 27th, 2014, 6:26 pm

philly wrote:thanks for the insight, i cant wait to get enough coin to scratch together to pick one up and start running up my electric bill! haha! by the way what are the effects on your bill when you use the welder alot? we all have FPL so im sure our power costs are similar....


WHILE I'm sure its in the bill, I doubt I do enough actual welding time in any month to make a huge difference in my electric bill.i doubt the welder time adds $50 a month if that

we all learn to work with the tools we own and eventually, I think. most of us come too think of the tools faults or virtues as the way EVERYONE DOES IT.
Ive used those 140 amp welders and was actually rather impressed and well pleased with the results..well UNTIL THAT WAS UNTIL I used a buddys MILLER 252 mig, and a friends LINCOLN 300 amp TIG welder , I think its a case of not knowing what your missing as much as the machines capability's.
the miller 140 amp is a darn nice tool that will do most of what you need to do, if I was only doing welding rather rarely its just fine, and Id certainly feel it was meeting my needs, but
after using both friends welder I saved up and purchased a miller 252 mig and am currently saving for the TIG ADAPTER PARTS for my LINCOLN ARC WELDER
arc http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Eq ... lnElectric)
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mig
Image


my neighbor has a small Lincoln mig, he uses mostly as a flux core welder and he was thrilled with that, but he still comes over to have me weld much of the stuff he does as hes noticed the difference in the weld quality between the small Lincoln and my larger miller.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lincoln-Elec ... lsrc=aw.ds
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: first mig welder

Postby NOT A TA » May 28th, 2014, 9:19 pm

My bill doesn't change enough to notice really. I'm only running a 110 MIG though.
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