MOST VERSITAL SHOP WELDER ?????



welding basics

Postby grumpyvette » September 17th, 2008, 12:02 pm

welder= machine
weldor= technician

wel·dor : a person whose work is welding


I constantly got crap about that difference in spelling while I was an mechanical engineer in college and learning to weld in classes my instructor (in his 70s at the time , looked at us "Kids" in our 20s) and also constantly, stated that even monkey's could be trained to MIG weld so there were some possible potential for us "ENGINEERING STUDENTS" to learn the basic skills...at the time I failed to see the humor but now that I,m 66 I have a different out look and smile thinking about it

first Id like to say Im not an EXPERT at welding but have done quite a bit over the years
now just to answer some basic questions, heres some info from a different site you might want to know!

I'll try to cover some of the basics for you as best as I can explain them.
http://www.alpharubicon.com/elect/tigbasic1.htm

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/tig ... ideos.html

TIG - (Tungsten Inert Gas Welding) basically resemble oxy-acetylene welding (torch) but you use a controllable electric arc as the flame/head source, ans add the weld wire, or rod separate from the arc
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This process is the toughest to learn. The electrode is composed of Tungsten, and a current is flowed through it controlled by either a foot pedal, a hand switch, or a fixed current on the machine itself. I am learning TIG using a foot pedal, the more you press down on the metal, the more amps you get. Once you get enough current flowing to get an appropriate sized weld pool, you start dabbing a filler metal into the puddle as you move the electrode further down the work piece. TIG allows you a great amount of control because you regulate how much current the electrode gets and how much filler metal the weld pool gets. This process is very slow compared to the other types though.

MIG - (Metal Inert Gas)
mig is basically a wire thats fed constantly into the weld area that got current running thru it, it melts both the metal and itself as its consumed/melted by the arc
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heres a few tips
If you have a hard time judging MIG wire diameter or sheet metal gauges, they make a tool for that little issue in lack of judgmental skills
even the $20 import version is accurate enough for that use!
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this link might be useful
http://www.engineersedge.com/gauge.htm
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http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-dial-caliper-66541.html
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http://www.autobody101.com/articles/article.php?title=Mig+Welding

MIG is the easiest process of welding. A feeding gun is used to feed a spool of filler metal wire into the weld pool. Current is usually switched on and off by means of a trigger on the gun. Amps are usually controlled by a dial on the MIG machine itself, meaning that you cannot adjust current in the middle of welding. Though, with some machine you are able to get a foot pedal to control Amps while welding.

Arc Welding

[b] these are the cheaper buzz box welders we all tend to start with, they use an arc thru the weld rod some what similar to mig but without the gas shielding, they have flux on most rods to help the weld quality[/n]
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Arc welding is mostly used in industrial applications. An electrode is used to strike an arc, the electrode then melts away to deposit metal into the weld pool. The electrode is coated with a variety of different materials which are used to help keep the weld pool from being contaminated.

TIG and non-flux-cored MIG both use a variety of different shielding gases to help keep the weld pool from being contaminated depending on what metal is being welding.

http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/82101/

http://www.ytmag.com/articles/artint153.htm

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/tools/2001/3/welding_basics/

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3284

http://www.hobartbrothers.com/aboutus/downloads/

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/

BTW, welding without the correct helmet is stupid, protect your EYE-SIGHT

http://www.thetoolsource.com/thetoolsource/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=26

[url]http://www.maxtool.com/cgi-bin/dbsearch.exe?mdb=\tools.mdb,dbTYPE=2000,tbl=IC_ITEMS,template=/comp_master-3.htm,DBCOMP=ABS,dbsort=retail,ReturnMax=25,DB_CAT2=Whelmets[/url]

http://www.weldingdepot.com/?source=overture

http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/scan/fi=products/st=db/sp=results/co=1/sf=category/se=Welding%20Helmets%20-%20Auto/op=eq/nu=0/bs=1/ml=15/tf=description/to=x/se=1/sf=inactive/op=ne/sf=tax_category/se=1/op=eq/va=banner_text=/va=banner_image=.html

http://www.brwelder.com/indexTemplate.cfm

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1669

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1594

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1958

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I wish I had a bench this nice and as soon as funds allow I WILL GET ONE
HERES THE MIG I PURCHASED
MILLER 252
http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merch ... gory_Code=
FOR MY SHOP, (IT COST $2200) IT HAS AN OPTIONAL KIT THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO MIG ALUMINUM< BUT ITS RATHER EXPENSIVE
(about $1100)
http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merch ... ode=130831
but its a TOP QUALITY MIG THAT WILL HANDLE 95% OF AUTOMOTIVE WELDING IF YOU GET THE OPTIONAL KIT
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just some info
THE MILLER WELDERS that REQUIRE a 230 volt feed have proven to be easier to use in my opinion than some of the cheaper brands,(YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR) you can OCCASIONALLY GET GOOD DEALS ON E-bay on NEW and used welders, stick with the better name brands, accessories like wire feed guns and repairs are very difficult to get for some off brands. buy a welder that rated at at least 50% duty cycle or you could be constantly having it overheat on large jobs, or not have the power to do the larger jobs

http://www.autobody101.com/articles/art ... %20Welding

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/

CHOOSING THE CORRECT WELDER

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/helpmechoose/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/hel ... guide.html

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledg ... eldschool/

http://weldingdesign.com/equipment-auto ... lder-0209/

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4384&p=11518&hilit=work+bench#p11518

http://www.htpweld.com/products/tig_welders/index.htm

http://www.chpower.com/webapp/wcs/store ... 10001_-1_5

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5313

http://www.chpower.com/webapp/wcs/store ... 1_10001_-1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavist ... 0Guide.pdf
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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MOST VERSITAL SHOP WELDER ?????

Postby grumpyvette » April 22nd, 2009, 11:20 am

As always think thru your goals vs the cost, it would make very little sense to add optional add ons to a welder to have access to for an example a tig capability on the welder below if the upgrade if it cost more or even close to what a second welder cost
I can,t see how any serious hot rod guy can operate without at least one decent welder, Ive got 4 , a oxy/acetylene torch, a mig, welder a tig welder and an ARC welder and each has its own unique area where it excels
but a decent TIG and a gas TORCH could do probably 95% of the welds and just a good a mig could do easily 80%
ID strongly suggest you find a local trade school that has a 6-8 week welding class as its WELL worth the time and effort as youll learn a great deal and get a good feel for what type of welders best suit your needs, it sure beats spending $600-$4500 on a welder and then finding out you could have a better welder that better suited their needs and spent less to get it. or found the welder you thought was a bargain is a total piece of S$%%^^ like many of my freinds found out


ENGINE DRIVEN ARC WELDER/ generator
http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2 ... de=K2382-4

TIG OPTIONS
http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2 ... de=K2535-2

http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2 ... ode=907460

http://www.usaweld.com/ProductDetails.a ... 70221-12.5

mig options

read this thread

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viewtopic.php?f=60&t=9745&p=36661#p36661

http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2 ... de=K2689-1

http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2 ... ode=907312

http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2 ... ode=907422

http://www.usaweld.com/TIG-WELDER-Inver ... 12.5-3.htm
HTP MAKES A VERY GOOD TIG WELDER AND TECH SUPPORTS GOOD ALSO

http://www.htpweld.com/products/tig_welders/tig201.html


at some point the cost of adding the options vs just buying the correct second welder needs to be carefully considered, but depending on your goals its sometimes a very useful option to add an upgrade kit to a welder

Always think thru your goals when you purchase equipment,the rough rule as a guide is youll need about one amp per .001 inch of material thickness to well aluminum effectively, IE youll need about 250 amps to weld 1/4" thick aluminum, now that is based on the idea of near constant use, naturally you can weld thicker material if youll allow less than a 70%-100% duty cycle, and as a general rule a 250 amp rated machine will operate at 70%-100% duty cycle at significantly reduced amps (lets say 180 amps as a guess) from its rated 250 amp max.

heres my mig

http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2 ... ode=907321

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=157&p=891#p891

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=72

http://www.weldfabulous.com/Welders/c195588/

READ THESE RELATED THREADS

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1283

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1958

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=157

TIPS
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/


viewtopic.php?f=61&t=9263&p=33437#p33437

good advice on learning to TIG WELD ,posted in different thread
"Take a welding class at the local community college, and learn to TIG before you spend the money. Just like any other machine tool, the welding machine is only about half the cost of getting setup to weld.

You'll need:

TIG power supply (600$-60,000$)
Foot Pedal (100$ and up)
TIG torch (15$-150$ bodies, 5$ handles, 40-50$ cabling)
Torch parts (3$ collet bodies, 1$ collets, insulators, 2$ cups, backcaps)
Tungstens (10packs usually 20-30$)
Gas bottle (Mine is 50$/year lease, plus 36$ for Argon fill, I fill about every two weeks)
Gloves (12$/pr)
Filler rod (aluminum 5.60/lb, steel 4.30/lb, stainless 8.90/lb current and local)

Figure in if you are starting from scratch, that you'll go through two packs of tungsten, 40 collets, 8 cups, a pair of gloves, 30lbs of steel rod, and probably 8 tank fills on a Q size tank, before you are able to produce a consistent, clean, saleable weld.

Now, if you take the TIG class, then you get to pay the 400$ and burn through as much in the way of supplies as you want...get as good as you want...and THEN spend the big money on equipment, after you've already spent someone else's money on materials learning. "
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: MOST VERSITAL SHOP WELDER ?????

Postby grumpyvette » November 3rd, 2009, 4:05 pm

If you look around at local welding supply shops and local welding shops you will on occasion see great deals on used welders that get traded in or swapped on upgrades, a close examination will usually give you some idea as to its condition and the local dealer in that brand can give you an approximate age with its serial number and model, some welders have been used hard and constantly, but a surprising number spend a great deal of time just sitting unused in shops, I know of several shops that have several welders and most of the works being done with one or at most two welder, its not at all rare to find high amp rated mig or tig welders that have had little real use.
If your thinking of buying a shop welder Id strongly suggest a 220 volt 180-210 amp mig, or 220 volt 200-270 amp TIG will do about 90% of what most guys will ever do, if you get a MIG with a spool gun that can do aluminum, you have a rather versatile welder, but a good TIG is almost unbeatable in the versatility race, its a bit slower but it will weld almost anything, in skilled hands.
Ive purchased several used welders, and had zero problems, but I always do a few test welds before I buy, one,If you can,t do that your best off avoiding the welder. and keep in mind ,that the main things you need to do, in deciding on a welder is making sure it meets your needs and that you have the electrical capacity to run it, stick to recently built name brands so you can get parts, anything over about 10 years old is usually hard to get parts for.
and stick to single phase 110volt or 220 volt welders as most shops don,t have three phase power

CHOOSING THE CORRECT WELDER

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/helpmechoose/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/hel ... guide.html

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledg ... eldschool/

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5313

http://www.chpower.com/webapp/wcs/store ... 10001_-1_5

http://www.chpower.com/webapp/wcs/store ... 1_10001_-1

http://www.weldfabulous.com/Welders/c195588/


the last couple guys I know who bought one said they were several hundred dollars less than a comparable miller or lincon TIG, and had a bit better features for the money.
Call us at 800-USA-WELD (800-872-9353) for more information or to place an order.
THE PREVIOUS 201 IS NOW DISCONTINUED
its been replaced with an upgraded 221 TIG $3520 THIS INCLUDES THE LIQUID COOLED TORCH AND TORCH'S COOLANT FLUID PUMP
http://www.usaweld.com/TIG-WELDER-Inver ... 12.5-3.htm
WATCH VIDEO s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i14t_CDMMQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZMDAV87gn0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Hm08GIBro

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REMEMBER the LIQUID COOLED TORCH AND COOLANT PUMP PURCHASED SEPARATELY ,GENERALLY ADDS $1200-$1500 to a TIG WELDER and its a VERY GOOD OPTION TO HAVE


COMPARE TO MILLER 210 $3520 KEEP IN MIND THIS IS A AIR COOLED TIG < YOU WOULD NEED TO UPGRADE TO A WET TORCH AND COOLANT PUMPMaxstar 200 DX: Complete Pkg w/Foot Control (Water Cooled)
Maxstar 200 DX power source
Quick Reference Guide: English | Spanish
8 ft (2.4 m) primary cord
2-Wheel trolley cart (300480)
Coolmate™ 1 cooler 120 VAC (300360)
1 Gallon coolant (043810)
RFCS-14HD foot control (194744)
25 ft (7.6 m) Weldcraft® WP20 water cooled torch (300185)
Torch accessory kit with tungsten includes:
- Shielding cups
- Collets-1/16, 3/32, 1/8
- Collet bodies-1/16, 3/32, 1/8
- 2% Cerium tungsten-1/16, 3/32, 1/8
15 ft (4.6 m) Work lead with clamp and Dinse connector
Gas hose
Smith Regulator/flowmeter
Torch cable cover
Setup DVD $4,429.00

http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merch ... Code=m-tig

COMPARE TO LINCOLN 225 $2525 KEEP IN MIND THIS IS A AIR COOLED TIG < YOU WOULD NEED TO UPGRADE TO A WET TORCH AND COOLANT PUMP
http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merch ... Code=l-tig
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Posts: 14105
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Re: MOST VERSITAL SHOP WELDER ?????

Postby grumpyvette » December 31st, 2009, 6:28 pm

http://www.usaweld.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=25

I have not seen one yet in person but a combo , MIG/TIG/ARC welder IF its well designed has some intriguing potential, and HTP is known for building a decent quality welder, I know several guys with HTP tig welders and everyone happy with those.

STEVE POSTED THIS BIT OF INFO
"
It only welds in DCEN (Direct Current Electrode Negative) which is cool because most of your welding will be DCEN. However, don’t expect great results on aluminum which is best welded in A/C current mode.

I have a TIG and unless I am welding aluminum or stainless I will reach for my MIG welder first. I think you would be better off buying a good MIG, master that and then decide if you even need a TIG. I like having the option of the TIG but don’t really need it for the car but I have come across situations where it was the only option to restore an otherwise non-reproduction part.

If you can afford 1,200.00 for a welder, buy a GOOD MIG and then if you want a TIG go get a good one with A/C, balance and pulse.

Steve"
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Posts: 14105
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Re: MOST VERSITAL SHOP WELDER ?????

Postby grumpyvette » August 11th, 2010, 12:13 pm

the answer to which welder you'll want depends on what your intended use for the welder is, most guys understandably want to get into welding as cheaply as they can, and they see a 220volt 230 amp arc welder for less than $400 and think thats a great idea, but you mention auto body work, that generally involves thin sheet steel and an ARC welder like your talking about is a rather poor choice for that, that welder is fine for welding up car trailers or brackets on rear differentials or most things made from 3/16-3/8" steel but it will be a P.I.T.A, on thin 24-20 gauge sheet steel fenders and doors etc. compared to a decent MIG or TIG
Id suggest you take the class BEFORE you buy a welder
and if its body work your intending to do a small MIG or TIG is a far better choice

read thru these

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=72


http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1669

since your looking for a basically do everything auto body and frame welder, Id suggest this, as a great choice


http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=907422

if your ONLY doing sheet metal body work and on a limited budget

http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=907335

btw
if you check your local bargain trader and Craig,s list or EBAY theres a good chance you can find a used miller,Lincoln or HTP TIG WELDER that would do an even better job that would normally cost several thousand dollar$ for a similar cash out lay
something like these used TIGS can be less than 1/2 price and a screaming deal, keep in mind a decent TIG can also do aluminum
just stick to name brands LINCOLN,MILLER,HTP and do the research to verify its still got parts availability (LESS THAN 10 years old usually)


its a great idea to take a welding class before buying a welder
pay attention when they start talking and TIG welding,water cooled vs air cooled,torches, shield gas,,ceramic gas shields,selection,electrode selection,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfOqyqKR0IU


and MIG welding about shield gas,wire size,,wire speeds, etc. because those will become important to your results


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpBFUrpUGZg

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=530

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=72


a good quality MIG will work ok,on thin body panels
BUT a good quality TIG is even better!
giving better heat control and better weld quality

I can,t see how you can get by without at least one decent welder in your shop,
Ive got 4 welders, arc,mig,tig,and a gas torch, but I could easily get by with just both a good 300 amp TIG and an OXY-ACETYLENE welders, the migs faster and easier but not as versatile in my opinion, the arc welders fine for frames and heavy steel but its not much good on the delicate things


look around your area for a deal with a complete used 250-300 amp tig system like this with water cooled torch,pump,welder and your thousand$ ahead of buying new in come cases



CHOOSING THE CORRECT WELDER

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/helpmechoose/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/hel ... guide.html

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledg ... eldschool/

http://weldingdesign.com/equipment-auto ... lder-0209/

http://www.htpweld.com/products/tig_welders/index.htm

http://www.chpower.com/webapp/wcs/store ... 10001_-1_5

http://www.chpower.com/webapp/wcs/store ... 1_10001_-1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavist ... 0Guide.pdf
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

duty cycle on welder.

Postby grumpyvette » September 19th, 2013, 1:05 pm

I recently visited a local friends shop where he was having problems with his recently purchased , a $289 HF 180 amp mig/flux welder.
ALL WELDERS REGARDLESS OF BRAND,or COST HAVE A DUTY CYCLE
a MIG welder basically works by using electrical resistance to heat and melt metal, this also causes the welder itself to heat up, the higher the AMP setting the more heat is generated,the and the faster the heat builds the longer it needs to cool between cycles
now let me assure you I know what it is to be low on funds! and without doubt the low price on those welders looks attractive
but its rarely a good idea to buy a cheap welder,and theres a REASON why the better welders cost a good deal more than the cheap imports, now there are jobs that the less expensive welders are very useful on, and you surely don,t need a welder like I purchased for my shop, but looking at the difference will be informative!
if you look thru the duty cycle specs on most welders youll quickly see why a welder that runs on 220volt vs 110 volts is preferred if your fabricating or repairing much of ANYTHING,that will require more than a few minutes of welding time, in most applications, youll also notice why the miller and lincoln 200-250 amp rated migs are preferred over the 120-145 amp imports that run on 110volts even with the huge price difference by most shops... that do welding frequently, rather than.. a low price welder that plugs into 110 volt outlets...those low cost 110 volt welders lost a great deal of its appeal or glamor if you need to repeatedly limit your welding to 2 minutes, maximum, then wait for 8-10 minutes before welding again, and can,t get repair parts easily at a local dealer.
as the amps you set the welder at increase the DUTY CYCLE will DECREASE, a 180amp welder that can be used for 10-15 minutes at a 20-25 amp setting, that youll use on thin sheet metal, might over heat in 2 minutes at 140 amp setting
my brother-in-law seldom listens to my advice, and when he saw a 180 amp welder available for $300 at HF he jumped on the "BARGAIN PRICED WELDER"
what he failed to understand was that all mig welders have a duty cycle, and what that basically means is that you can,t weld continuously without the welder overheating and burning up, it needs to cool off between welds , if you purchase a welder, in my opinion, you should find one that has at least a 50%-70% duty cycle at the amp rating your most likely to use it at, so you can more or less weld fairly constantly without needing to wait for the welder to cool off between making brief welds.

http://www.harborfreight.com/180-amp-mi ... -8508.html
I noticed the issue and asked to read the owners manual
http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manual ... /68886.pdf

you would be amazed at the info included in an owners manual, and I,d bet 80% never get read!
and remember that flux-core requires reverse polarity compared to MIG.
this little jem got my attention, its the duty cycle chart, you get 2 minutes of welding time, followed by a MANDATORY 8 minute cooling off time between welds

Image


now I freely admit thats a great price on a 180 amp mig welder but you also get what you pay for and a $289 mig welder is just that!
with the HF 180 amp rated mig you can weld for 2 minutes on only the 140 amp level, then MUST stop and let it cool for 8 minutes, before starting to weld again....that alone would make me throw it in the nearest dumpster, if I was welding something substantial like brackets on a differential or a roll cage, and yes Ill freely admit that if your only welding thin \sheet steel like patches on a fender it will get the job done, but after using several [color=#0000BF]MILLER,HOBART,LINCOLN,HTP, welders , most of which are in the 180amp-230 amp range at several friends shops, I found the particular HF MIG lacking fine controls on heat and wire feed required for getting a good consistent weld quality [/color]


now you obviously can,t logically compare my $2300 MILLER shop mig, to the $289 HF mig ,but look over the differences, with my miller shop welder you can weld almost constantly,keep in mind your never welding constantly because your changing locations , moving parts or clamps etc. but the better quality MILLER MIG that costs SIGNIFICANTLY MORE allows basically unlimited welding time at even 150 amps .
the difference makes it all to obvious WHY you really need to research before you buy any welder and its a great idea to find and use one someone else has previously purchased to get a good idea of any welders capacity and limitations before you start dumping hundreds or thousands of dollars into a welder, and remember its not just the welder alone, you need wire, a gas tank, safety equipment , like a hood, and apron and gloves , clamps, and other components that can easily add a thousand dollars to the cost before you have a valid functioning welder.
now his problem had to do with BOTH lack of ability to adjust the current down low enough for use with thin floor pan steel and the welder cutting out after a couple minutes use, he was also using it as a flux core welder and used no shield gasses, resulting in "WELD" that either burnt thru or looked like chicken crap, I eventually had him help me put his car on a trailer and bring it over to my shop, where I was able to fix him up in less than 30 minutes


HERES a couple popular choices for a shop welder

http://store.cyberweld.com/mi211migwewi.html

http://store.cyberweld.com/millermatic175.html


heres THE MILLER 252 MIG WELDER I bought for my shop on one of the rare days I had some cash to buy tools with
...yes its a bit of overkill but Ive never regretted spending the extra coin, because long experience taught me good quality tools make work far easier, and after a few years you don,t miss the cash spent as much, as you regret buying crappy tools that need to be replaced, if you go the cheap route.

http://store.cyberweld.com/mil251witmet ... 7AodriIA9Q

http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/DC12-49.pdf

Image


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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: MOST VERSITAL SHOP WELDER ?????

Postby grumpyvette » February 8th, 2014, 12:31 pm

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: MOST VERSITAL SHOP WELDER ?????

Postby grumpyvette » February 26th, 2014, 10:39 pm

http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merch ... ory_Code=L

I get asked all the time what is the least expensive welder you can actually use, well, of all the cheap welders Ive used I think this one above was the best one I tried, but I think Id save up a bit more and buy the one below if i was really looking for the least expensive mig I could use for darn near all steel automotive welding

http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merch ... ode=907422
the problem with cheap welders is a great many are far less durable than you might think and many are basically toys with little actual useability, you tend to get what you pay for and theres huge bargains in used welders but you need to know what your looking at in used equipment
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: duty cycle on welder.

Postby grumpyvette » May 27th, 2014, 8:29 am

now obviously what type of work you do will determine to a great extent what would be the best match in a MIG welder to YOUR particular application, and it makes little sense to but a welder with capacity youll never use or one youll constantly be waiting on, to allow it to cool off.
in reality youll seldom need to exceed more than about a 60% duty cycle at the rated amps youll be using even on a job where your almost constantly welding, because in reality even when busy welding theres constant stops for repositioning . aligning parts, checking fit, angles etc. so youll want to know what amp range your actually going to be using, the wire diam. the chart below will be helpful

Image

first, lets say your welding mostly body sheet metal, thats 18 gauge,we can see from the chart we would most likely use .030 wire and about 120 amps
how did I get 120 amps, well the range on the chart suggests 90-145 amps, thats a 55 amp range , add half of 55 to the lower 90 amps puts you at 118 amps so its a safe bet that I will use .030 wire at about 120 amps and adjust the wire speed to match, now looking at welders you would want a welder that would handle 120 amps at at least 40% duty cycle in my opinion, the miller 180 would most likely do that, but if you were welding .125 thick roll cage, or frame section, material, you would be in a far different amp and duty cycle range, do the calculations
heres the duty cycle chart on my 252 miller mig, notice as the amps go down the duty cycle increases, thats going to be similar on all welders to some extent
what the chart basically shows on my miller 252, is that if I select 150 amps or less I can get a 100% duty cycle, something youll never need btw but its also pointing out that having a welder with a bit higher amp rated capacity has a big advantage of your using it constantly, as youll seldom need to wait for the welder to cool or risk PERMANENT AND EXPENSIVE damage too it by over heating it by exceeding the duty cycle
Image

http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merch ... gory_Code=
we all learn to work with the tools we own and eventually, I think. most of us come too think of the tools faults or virtues as the way EVERYONE DOES IT.
Ive used those 140 amp welders and was actually rather impressed and well pleased with the results..well UNTIL I used a buddys MILLER 252 mig, and a friends LINCOLN 300 amp TIG welder , I think its a case of not knowing what your missing as much as the machines capability's.
after using both friends welder I saved up and purchased a miller 252 mig and am currently saving for the TIG ADAPTER PARTS for my LINCOLN ARC WELDER
arc http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Eq ... lnElectric)
Image

mig
Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: MOST VERSITAL SHOP WELDER ?????

Postby grumpyvette » August 14th, 2014, 8:56 am

1966_L78 wrote:Okay, I have always wanted to weld (for the past 32+ years), but I never took the time or spent the money to do so... I anticipate needing some welding in the next year of two... Basically, possibly a few small patch panels for the trunk floor and filling some trim holes...

I don't know if I'll ever use it again, I have managed for 32 years, paying someone else to do my welds when needed...

I also am probably NOT going to be putting in a 220V service panel, so something that runs on 110 V (30 amp?)...

Not sure whats out there, but price is a big concern. I understand the concept of "you get what you pay for", but I don't even know how much use I'll get ( and I don't prescribe to the notion of "you find more stuff to do if you buy one.").


70-SS454 wrote:Millermatic 211 Autostart... One & Done...! It'll last your lifetime...!



yeah! theres a great deal of wisdom in buying decent equipment vs shopping low price, we all start out wanting to spend the minimum, but quickly find out why the better quality equipment is usually well worth the price, and in most cases if you stick with welding and try a few of the better welders ,you soon realize the cheaper equipment has a huge effect on reducing your ability to weld correctly


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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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