TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)



Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby busterrm » August 26th, 2012, 9:19 pm

Don't get too attached to stainless fasteners, the higher strength stainless will crystalize easier than regular grade 8 and then they will snap. Leaving you with a a broken stud most times in a place that is hard to remove. Few years back we had a unit at work that was total stainless, customer specifications. All the fasteners were high tensile strenghth from "Totally Stainless" and we had several of the bolt do just, crystalize before torque was reached and then snapped.
Bob
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby busterrm » August 26th, 2012, 9:27 pm

We bought from them due to them being only domestic company that produced the higher strength stainless bolts in smaller sizes. All I am saying is be careful when using them, tap and clean the threads before you thread them in, most important don't use thread locker when your going into aluminum bosses.
Bob
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby Indycars » August 27th, 2012, 8:29 am

busterrm wrote:Don't get too attached to stainless fasteners, the higher strength stainless will crystallize easier than regular grade 8 and then they will snap. Leaving you with a a broken stud most times in a place that is hard to remove. Few years back we had a unit at work that was total stainless, customer specifications. All the fasteners were high tensile strength from "Totally Stainless" and we had several of the bolt do just, crystallize before torque was reached and then snapped.

We bought from them due to them being only domestic company that produced the higher strength stainless bolts in smaller sizes. All I am saying is be careful when using them, tap and clean the threads before you thread them in, most important don't use thread locker when your going into aluminum bosses.


All the bolts except for the big 3/4" bolts, are for filling unused holes in the engine for
cosmetic reasons. They are not to hold anything and don't need to be tightened anymore
than just snug. The big bolts don't thread into anything other than SS nuts, so if it breaks
before final torque then it's not a problem to remove. I will be using anti-seize compound
on all the threads.

There is just one exception to the statement above for the pulley that attaches to the
harmonic balancer. I will post some pics when I get it done.

Do you have links or more info on the crystallize process you mention???

Rick
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- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby busterrm » August 30th, 2012, 9:40 pm

I have no info to back my statement in writing, just my experience in working with regular steel and stainless materials. Metallurgists have warned our industries, mostly engineers that work for steel companies, to not use the hardest stainless fasteners due to the work hardening of stainless steels. Regular carbon steel has the tendency to be softer but it will harden when worked, stainless does that same thing but its already very hard, also being dense already it has the tendency to get harder but the chromium will crystallize and break in the process. That's where the harder stainless fasteners give problems, they are higher in content of chromium. We use a stainless compound called "Hastalloy G 276", we have use a high pressure water system to cut it, so the heat won't cause the chromium to crystallize and the welding with it is a total nightmare. It has to be welded, then cooled, welded, cooled, etc........
Most of the time when stainless as a fastener, most of the engine builders in our nova club use studs instead
Last edited by busterrm on August 30th, 2012, 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bob
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby busterrm » August 30th, 2012, 9:43 pm

As long as you're careful and use anti sieze you should be okay. I only use stainless when its going into the cast iron bosses or regular steel, but I never use in aluminum bosses. IMO there is just too much at risk.
Bob
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If I can't smoke the tires I want more!!!
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby Indycars » August 31st, 2012, 8:25 am


Thanks for the update! I promise I will be careful and use lots of anti-sieze
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby Indycars » January 1st, 2013, 4:15 pm


I purchased the 750 CFM Speed Demon carburetor (1402010VE) for $419.99 + $13.99 handling
yesterday and got $40 Demon air cleaner for free. The story goes like this......

I called Summit to see if they would do something similar to Jegs with the free Demon
air cleaner when you purchased a Demon Carb, but no cigar. Several weeks later I found
the Speed Demon on Amazon for $419.99, that's the first time I've seen any other price
than $457 at any major speed parts supplier. Yesterday I found the link to Jegs Price
Match Guarantee. See the last pics below to see how it works.

I figured that if it worked, Jegs would would not include the free $40 air cleaner. I was
pleasantly surprised to see that I was wrong, and when I placed the URL and price into
the Jegs form, it was immediate with the price reduction.

Funny thing is when I checked Jegs for info to write this post, the Free Demon Air Cleaner
is no longer being offered.

SpeedDemon750VacElecChoke.jpg
JegsSpeedDemonPrice.jpg
DemonAirCleaner01.jpg
JegsPriceMatch03.JPG



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Rick
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- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby busterrm » January 4th, 2013, 6:26 pm

Still in the thinking stage on what carb Tommy and I are going to use on his 383, I am leaing towards a Demon because I think they are a cool looking carb.
Bob
2007 Chevy Silverado
1976 Chevy Nova
2008 Harley - Davidson Sportster 1200 Custom.
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!!!
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby grumpyvette » January 4th, 2013, 6:32 pm

busterrm wrote:Still in the thinking stage on what carb Tommy and I are going to use on his 383, I am leaning towards a Demon because I think they are a cool looking carb.


they also have the ability to be tuned to match the intended air/fuel ratio ,over a slightly wider range of conditions than a standard HOLLEY carburetor in my experience.
keep in mind a great deal of how well a carb will run has to do with how consistently the fuel system supplies fuel and which components like jets or power valves or vacuum secondary springs are used.
related info

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=585&p=24111&hilit=demon#p24111

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=211

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=6157&p=19137&hilit=demon#p19137

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=585&p=758&hilit=demon#p758

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=396&p=29211#p29211

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1790

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8126

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5510

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5229

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1639

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=635

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1115&p=2312#p2312
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby Indycars » January 5th, 2013, 2:34 pm


The Speed Demon carburetor came in yesterday and today I got a chance to
check it out.

The first thing I noticed was the texture of the base plate and metering
blocks, they are suppose to be Billet. I'm sure they are, but they just don't
look like what I had pictured. It also had small amounts of gasoline inside
the carb and in the bag it came in, I hope this means they REALLY DID
wet flow test it before sending it out.

I went all over the carb checking the tightenes of all the fastners, everything
seemed to be in order.

DemonFeatures01.jpg
Overview01_3582.jpg
Overview02_3583.jpg
Overview03_3578.jpg
Overview04_3579.jpg


Sometimes I wish I was a BIG MAGAZINE WRITER so I could hand pick the
components I received.

Overview05_3580.jpg


Primary Side

PrimaryRemoval_3588.jpg
PrimaryOverview01_3589.jpg
PrimaryOverview02_3592.jpg


Secondary Side

SecondaryOverview01_3566.jpg
SecondaryFloatBowl_3577.jpg
SecondaryFuelInlet_3572.jpg


The base plate was NOT completely aligned with carb body. I loosened the
screws and used a plastic hammer to move it to the one side as far as it
would go. Then I re-tightened screws. Then I used a Exacto knife to trim
the excess gasket from the venturis.

VenturiBeforeGasketRemoval_3603.jpg
VenturiAfterGasketRemoval_3628.jpg


I thought the leading edge of the main jets would have a small chamfer, but
if looks like they just drilled them and left it at that.

PrimaryJet#76_3598.jpg


I'm happy with what I see so far, even thou there were a few details that
were not absolutely correct. But then I wouldn't be able to afford if it was! :P

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Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby grumpyvette » January 5th, 2013, 2:53 pm

youve got darn impressive photo skills , thats for sure!

and yes beveling the edge on the jet orifice helps flow consistency
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby Indycars » January 5th, 2013, 3:29 pm


Exactly what I was thinking! It's going to increase the flow somewhat, but it's
the consistence that you need. When you change jets, you need to know that
the change will be the same from set to another.......but that brings something
else to mind.

The flow is effected by the area of the hole and that increases with the SQUARE
of the radius. The change in flow from one jet to another is going to increase
as the jets get larger. For example....if you take the flow of a 78 jet - flow of
a 76 jet you might get 10 unit difference in flow. Now do the same thing for
86 - 84 and that difference might be 12 units. It's kinda like compounding
interest on you money.

Maybe it's so small of a change that it's down at the noise level and can
be disregarded.

Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby grumpyvette » January 5th, 2013, 3:50 pm

that increase in flow as the jet size is increased is true but its not as an important factor as you might think because your looking to maintain a consistent fuel air ratio, and the jet flow is rather consistent no mater what jet you select,you simply select what jet size you need,by looking at the results and selecting a smaller/leaner or larger richer jet then making the required changes to the power valves, secondary springs, accelerator cams, but the power valve is in most cases whats adding to the fuel flow once the air flow rates increase, past the jet flow capacity. think of it as the fuel system jets supply a fairly consistent percentage,of fuel drawn in by changes in air flow rates thru the venturies , but at a rate that will generally be a bit lean if the jets are properly sized while the power valves and accelerator pump supply the needed increased fuel to reach the correct ratio.
the systems designed to be easily tuned to compensate for changes in air or fuel flow required, obviously knowing the results from changes made helps so having a constant fuel/air ratio data log or at least a good bit of experience reading spark plugs helps

http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Tec ... 7849-2.pdf

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... ewall.html

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=6174&p=20791&hilit=fuel+ratio+meter#p20791

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=6765

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=109

http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/en ... rburetors/

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... ewall.html

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... ation.aspx

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5229

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1639
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby grumpyvette » June 25th, 2013, 2:37 pm

any more progress on assembling the drive train in the t-bucket yet?
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby Indycars » June 25th, 2013, 7:28 pm

grumpyvette wrote:any more progress on assembling the drive train in the t-bucket yet?


I hope this is what your were referring to in your question.

See the answer in the link below.
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=8180&p=34002&hilit=To+answer+Grumpy%27s+question#p34002

Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Postby busterrm » June 26th, 2013, 9:06 pm

Hey Grumpy, I am going up there to see Rick the week after the 4th, and I am hoping he has the tranny done by then. I am hoping we can drop his engine and tranny in the frame. I will be taking my heads and we are going to work on them too.
Bob
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1976 Chevy Nova
2008 Harley - Davidson Sportster 1200 Custom.
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!!!
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