just your basic lower cost ,street 383



just your basic lower cost ,street 383

Postby grumpyvette » October 31st, 2008, 4:02 pm

I was asked why the 383 combo was so popular,why doesn,t everyone build a 400 sbc instead?[/b

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=804

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1249&p=3409&hilit=stroker#p3409

short answer!
modifying the far more comon 350 base engine as a starting point is the most cost effective combo , thats easily built on the most comon basic chevy performance engine block, the 350 sbc. its an easy 35-50 hp over a similar 350,and its easy to build.
keep in mind your basically limited to about 1.25 horsepower per cubic inch of displacement if your going to use basically components that are compatable with street/strip use, streetable rpm levels and the stock block and mostly components that are similar in design to stock components or at lease similar enought that they can be bolted together with stock components with the expectation they will function reasonably well, and run on pump octane fuels.
naturally if you can afford aftermarket blocks and cylindrer heads that have ports that won,t accept the stock intakes or rockers and higher compression ratios and you could care less about the cars limitations in city traffic, theres options that allow you to build more horse power per the displacement
well first most guys tend to work with the basic components the car came withand in most cases thats a 350 sbc, if its a factory performance application over the last decade or more even so, they want better performance and limited to use of the basic 350 block and while trying to keep cost reasonable the most cost effective build is the 383 stroker simply because of parts cost,availability and minimal machine work.
Almost anything you can do to a 350 that will increase hp/tq will also work on a 383 and produce about 10% more tq and hp due to the increased displacement with similar components used.
yes the 400 blocks with thier larger bore have a distinct advantage but they are much harder to find.
aftermarket blocks have much thicker cylinder walls and webs, if your going to build a serious engine youll be far better off useing an aftermarket performance block.
[b]One other factor is that the comon hydralic lifter valve trains most guys use on the street tend to max out at about 6400rpm, about where the comon 383 sbc usually maxs out,in piston speed,and valve control issues with that hydraulic valve train, while the smaller 350 with its shorter stroke can,t effectively use its potential higher rpm band, only with more extensive valve train mods or a solid lifter cam [/b

IVE always prefered solid flat tappet lifters as they are a bit less likely to get into valve float issues at reasonable rpm limits [b],(naturally you need matched springs and carefully checked clearances) [/b and the cost of components is much lower than with a roller valve train, on a 383 thats generally about the same 6200rpm-6400rpm band so I prefer the solid lifters, naturally your compression ratio and drive train need to match the cam sellected, and Id point out that most solid lifter flat tappet cams are a bit more aggressive than your average hydraulic cam for street use.

[b]one combo Ive used alot,with good success, in camaros and novas, etc, is a crane 114681 cam (generally installed retarded 4 degrees) http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browsePa ... vl=2&prt=5

matched up in a 10.5:1 cpr 383 with a dual plane intake , like the Weiand 8501 or EDELBROCK RPM AIR GAP, and either a manual transmission or a 3000rpm stall converter, decent heads like the brodix -8s , the 200cc brodix IKs the AFR 195cc or 210CC or even the DART 200cc heads, a set of roller rockers, and youll want a 3.73:1-4.56:1 rear gear depending on the car weight and decent headers, but it tends to make decent hp/tq at a low cost, not necessarily ideal for long trips and great mileage but it will put a smile on your face when your accellerator pedals firmly on the floor

depending on the combo your easily over 400hp and with a impressive tq curve in the rpm range you can use on the street!
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: just your basic lower cost ,street 383

Postby grumpyvette » November 21st, 2008, 1:52 pm

to realistically expect 400hp you'll be better off starting with the 383 vs the 350, while both engines can do it, the extra displacement and ease of building compression with your current heads, (or better ones) makes the 383 the better choice provided its in decent mechanical condition, and you'll surely need a cam upgrade, now you didn,t post specs on the 383 short block and cpr but your best off beginning the combo with about a 10:1 cpr if you expect to realistically reach 400hp. just keep in mind anything your can do with a 350 can usually be done more effectively with a 383, and a flat tappet solid lifter cam in the 240-245 duration and .500-.530 lift range, matched to a 10;1-11;1 cpr and a decent intake and heads is generally required to be sure you'll get that 400 hp exceeded easily on a budget build, something that's not going to give great gas mileage or be particularly traffic friendly but it will kick butt over about 3500rpm-6500rpm
something like this crower with the 1.6:1 ratio rockers in that 383 should get you there!

http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam_finder.php?part_num=00321&x=10&y=5

browse thru these

http://rustpuppy.org/chp/

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... index.html

http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html

http://www.chevymania.com/dyno/

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1598&p=3766#p3766

if you use the same cam in a 383 as you used in the 350, you'll find the engine runs a slight bit smoother and tends to pull slightly lower peak rpm numbers but generally it will have very similar characteristics
you'll generally find a slightly higher lift and slightly tighter LSA angle on a similar or slightly longer duration to be a better match if you want to get similar or slightly better hp/tq.
(keep in mind the extra displacement tends to boost the effective compression ratio with flat top pistons and that tends top increase the torque, but by adding a slight increase in duration and tightening up the LSA that tends to allow it to breath better)as the tighter LSA induces slightly more overlap and more effective dynamic cpr and the slight increase in duration tends to compensate the other way for the increased compression, in that it delays the valve closing, the net effect is increasing the duration and lift slightly but tightening the LSA allows the cylinders to fill slightly better at the slightly lower average rpm band.
I generally suggest tightening the lsa 2 degrees and adding 5-6 degrees more duration and as much extra lift as you can easily get, 1.6:1 roller rocker ratios help here, when upgrading from a 350 to a 383 with both having flat top pistons to compensate for the differences in the cpr, stroke etc.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: just your basic lower cost ,street 383

Postby grumpyvette » November 21st, 2008, 2:13 pm

want to kick that hp/tq up a notch??


Grumpy I know you have a lot of information stored in your head so maybe you can give us a couple of engine combo's with exceptional power/dollar ratio's. I am looking to build a 400 plus rwhp SBC for as little money as possible.[/QUOTE]


ID suggest your start with these components

cam
http://www.iskycams.com/timingchart.php?product_number=201296/6

lifters
http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/OriginalFT.html

AFR 210cc heads 74cc

http://www.airflowresearch.com/210sbc_rh.php

yes the heads are expensive,(BUT WORTH IT) heres a lower cost option,


http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/1021001/10002/-1

or
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

intake

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=WND%2D8501&autoview=sku

carb
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D0%2D4779C&N=700+115&autoview=sku

short block

http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/or ... i.php?id=3


match ideally to a manual trans and 3.90:1 rear gear

In response to rfuchs

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article085/A -P...

http://www.airflowresearch.com/sbc-195cc-c-72_92.h...

http://www.virtualengine2000.com/

viewtopic.php?...

viewtopic.php?...

by this cd/book
http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html

read thru this info and take notes
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: just your basic lower cost ,street 383

Postby grumpyvette » November 25th, 2008, 11:46 pm

a different route to 400 plus hp
now the most common request I get for many years now has been to build a faily cheap 450hp sbc engine for street strip use, and thats not all that difficult to do.
first I suppose we need to define the perimeters, were talking about flywheel hp, so your looking at about 400 at the rear wheels, and CHEAP is relative, in that its a cheaper way to get 450 hp than you can easily BUY in a crate engine for the same money, but you can,t get 450 hp dirt cheap in a decently built engine much cheaper
ID also point out that your drive train must be set up correctly or you won,t be operating in the correct rpm band to effectively make or use that 400 rear wheel hp.
now Ill point out that the displacement needs to be as large as possable simply because you make the total hp easier with a larger engine so I rarely build anything smaller than a 383, or 396 sbc for years from a 350 block as its silly to build a 350 when the cost is so close but the larger engines make significantly more power.
youll want a 2800rpm-3000rpm stall converter and a 3.73-4.11 rear gear in a corvette to get the engine to opperate in the 2500rpm-6500rpm band the majority of the time.
if your not willing to do that youll be putting yourself at a BIG disadvantage.
next youll want a MINIMUM of a 10:1 cpr but the cam and heads you sellect will dictate the final combo to a large extent.
OK theres lots of ways to build a 450 flywheel hp engine, but remember CHEAP is one main parrameter, so we will sellect a solid lifter flat tappet cam and a 10;1 CPR AS BOTH ARE EASY TO FIND.
HERES A FEW OF MANY SOURCES FOR A ROTATING ASSEMBLY

http://www.strokermotor.com/RA383.htm
http://speedomotive.com/Budget%20383.htm

HERES SEVERAL CAMS THAT WILL WORK

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browsePa ... vl=2&prt=5

http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam ... 2&x=10&y=5


HERES TWO good cylinder heads (use the 195cc or 200cc size) these BOTH cost under $1000 for a set and its the one place you CANT SCRIP AND GET CHEAP< YOU NEED THESE

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... ryId=78237

ID suggest this intake for the street

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

but youll gain about 10-12 peak hp useing a good single plane intake like this

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

use 1 3/4" full length headers, a 700cfm-800cfb carb and a high voluum baffled oil pan

http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/or ... 0&line=MWM

if your careful, you can easily reach/exceed that 450 flywheel hp level
a realistic budget for the engine up and running is well under $4000 and if you have some parts like a block, rockers,pushrods etc. off a salvageable engine to start with you might get it built for under $3200
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: just your basic lower cost ,street 383

Postby grumpyvette » November 25th, 2008, 11:49 pm

Your cars gearing must match the cams effective rpm range, and the cylinder head ports should be sized to match both the engine displacement and intended rpm range the intake,compression, and header size must match the cam durration and engines rpm range.

If I was building an engine for that car Id build something similar to these combos. ID use a manual trans or a 3000rpm stall converter 4.11 rear gears, and read those combo specs carefully,combineing the knowledge gained, remember, a NITROUS design cam can add significantly to your effective results if your intending to use nitrous!

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/nitrous-tech-c.htm

http://www.beckracingengines.com/SiteFrameSet.html

http://www.diabolicalperformance.com/diabolical383.html

http://www.bracketmasters.com/small_blo ... 383_cu.htm

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ ... rmenbr=361

some parts ID consider almost mandatory
a solid roller cam in the 235-255 dur. @.050 range 110-112 LSA(compression ratio effects this)
a super vic intake with 750cfm-850cfm carb
8 qt baffled oil pan and milodon windage screen
(H) style connecting rods with 7/16 rod bolts
forged pistons and crank.
a 200hp nitrous plate
compression of at least 10.5:1 but it must match the cam timing

here are the specs: of a well built 383

4-bolt 350 block bored .60 over
eagle 3.75" crank
eagle 6" h-beam rods
wiseco forged flattops with total seal rings--12.5:1 comp.
custom ground comp solid roller
251/260 duration @.50
640/653 lift with the 1.6 roller rockers
109 LSA and 106 ICL
huge brodix single plane--(main reason for "low" tq??)
750 dominator carb worked over, not sure of cfm (another
reason for "low" torque?)
dart pro 1 215cc heads ported with 2.05/1.60 valves
hooker super comp 1 3/4" headers
NOS plate system
full msd ignition and 10.4mm taylor wires
electric water pump, electric fuel pump, and electric fan

the motor also has stud girdles and a rev kit and i went with all forged internals so i can "spray" the poo-poo out of it.
522hp/498tq



heres a well built SBC 406
· Block, 509, +30, Zero deck, Blanked water passages, Clearanced oil ways, Lifter valley vents, ARP main & head studs, Durabond cam & Clevite 77 main bearings.
· Crank, Scat 4340 forged steel, 3.75”, internal balance, Pioneer SFI balancer + ARP bolt.
· Rods, Comp. Products 6.00” H beam bronze bushed + ARP bolts Clevite 77 bearings.
· Pistons, SRP #4032 flat top, 5cc relief, Speed Pro plasma moly file fit rings.
· Complete rotating assembly balanced. Including - Flywheel, Clutch, Balancer & Crank pulley.
· Heads, AFR 210 Race Ready, 76cc, 2.080/1.600 valves, drilled for steam. FelPro #1014 gasket.
· Cam, Comp. Cams ‘Magnum’ #12-450-8 (286HR) Hydraulic roller.
230/230 @ .050, .377 lift 110 LSA 106 ICL.
· Pushrods, Howards Cams heavy wall 5/16” 7.4” long.
· Rockers, Pro Magnum roller, 1.6, 7/16” stud.
· Lifters, Pro Magnum hydraulic roller. AFR Hydr-Rev kit.
· Comp Cams Springs #950 + #740 retainers installed at 1.875”
· AFR rev kit, AFR stud girdle.
· Lube, Melling M99HVS pump, Canton 7qt 5 trap pan with inbuilt windage and scraper, Cooler, Accumulator, oil stat, remote filter.
· Holley 800cfm #4780C, 1” spacer, Victor Jr single plane.
· Static CR 10.32, Dynamic CR 7.9.
· Quench 0.0415” (Gasket .039” + .0025” down hole).
· MSD Pro Billet Street Dizzy, MSD 6AL, MSD Blaster 2 coil, MSD 8,5mm leads.

RPM BHP Torque
3800 367.3 507.7
3900 384.0 517.1
4000 395.1 518.8
4100 407.9 522.5
4200 418.9 523.8
4300 429.4 524.5
4400 439.6 524.7
4500 449.6 524.7
4600 462.1 527.6
4700 467.4 522.3
4800 476.6 521.5
4900 485.4 520.3
5000 489.2 513.9
5100 498.5 513.4
5200 496.0 501.0
5300 506.1 501.5
5400 508.4 494.5
5500 508.7 485.8
5600 505.6 474.2
5700 505.8 466.0
5800 505.8 458.0
5900 494.6 440.3
6000 491.9 430.6


heres a 401
http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... /page1.jpg
http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... /page2.jpg
http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... /page3.jpg
http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... /page4.jpg
example 2 a 392 sbc
http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... /A7-P1.jpg
http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... /A7-P2.jpg
http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... /A7-P3.jpg
http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... /A7-p4.jpg
http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... /A7-P5.jpg

look very closely, I want to point out a few things and dispell a few myths, first, that those 215cc heads don,t seem to hurt the torque much on that 392 small block now do they?? in fact if you look closely the differance in the peak tq was only about 15 ft lbs and the larger heads made more tq, (but at about 1000RPM higher) and most of that change in rpm level was due to the change from dual to single plane intake manifolds and a shorter crank stroke!

second, look how those fuelie heads kill performance on that second engine, and third notice how the single plane intake and shorter crank throw moved the torque peak higher in the rpm range but the peak torque remained high. and yes they are not similar engines in many respects but none the less thats very impressive power from a small block.

third, notice the heads,cam and compression matched to an intake that flows about 275cfm is necessary to make that power,keep in mind the stock TPI intake flows in the 200cfm range, effectively strangleing the corvettes engine, thats why I keep adviseing swapping to a custom stealth ram,on the corvettes or standard stealth ram EFI on cars with hood clearance to gain flow on similar TPI engines! and YEAH THOSE ENGINE NEED RACE GAS AND WON,T PASS EMMISSION TESTING
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: just your basic lower cost ,street 383

Postby grumpyvette » November 25th, 2008, 11:50 pm

Head flow & results on a 383


CHEVY high performance mag for aug 2006 did an interesting comparison between eight different cylinder heads available for $1000 or less.
While youll need to read the article to get all the data, I found it very interesting.
The articles called
“ POWER CURVES”
and it starts on pg 22
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/toc/ch_toc/index.html

Heres a few differant different articles
http://chevyhiperformance.com/tech/engi ... 01ch_head/

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techartic ... _0401_imp/

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/41598/

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/97538/

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/83858/

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techartic ... 6_thunder/

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... ndex2.html

the main factors you should notice is that ENGINE DISPLACEMENT MATTER TO THE RESULTS, port size(cc)IE the difference between a 175cc to a 230cc) has far LESS effect on the power curve and peak power that the AIR FLOW, and that flow rates measured at lifts above where the CAM reaches its max lift, and has little to no effect on the power curve, the cams duration and lift and LCA effect the results, the combustion chamber design and valve size DOES matter.
And the intake and exhaust design and flow rates DO EFFECT the power curve
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: just your basic lower cost ,street 383

Postby grumpyvette » November 26th, 2008, 11:23 am

heres another popular old time combo'
do you have a manual transmission , and at least a 3.36:1 rear gear ratio??
and what is your rear gear in your , nova,camaro,Corvette?(ideally a 3.73-4.56:1)
If your looking for an old school lumpy idle build combo

I build engines all the time, and I can give you a list of parts to build a combination will work correctly, but you will need to match, the intake and carb, rear gearing, transmission stall speed if your running an automatic,(3000rpm in this case) and the correct header size to that engine to get it to run correctly. With today's better cylinder heads, and cams, it's fairly easy to build a high horsepower engine, provided, you take the time to do your homework and match the parts to the intended use, airflow, and the cars usable rpm range due to its gearing.
The two biggest mistakes I see made constantly, is not matching all the parts to the rpm range in which the engine will be used, and changing the combo midstream due to the super deal that you just got on some part, I'd say 80% and 90% of the engines I see have mis-matched parts, and when you really get down to
ask them, they got us super deal somewhere on the cylinder heads, intake, cam and kit, or some other major part that does not match the rest of their, combo or the cars gearing.
For example
here's a combo that works
but you should have 3.73-4.56 rear gear's
your Corvette must have a manual transmission (or 3000rpn stall converter)
between a 10.3:1-and 11:1 .compression 383 short block
iron eagles to 215 C. C. heads (pocket ported with a three angle valve job)
a crane #114681 solid lifter cam shaft
and EDELBROCK rpm airgap intake
a 750 CFM vacuum secondary carburetor
full-length 1 3/4-inch headers with a three-inch exhaust and low restriction mufflers
a 7 QT baffled oil pan with a MILODON windage screen
a 250 hp nitrous plate system under the carb
I put this combo into late sixties and early seventies Corvette's and Camaros all the time, if you have the correct manual transmission and rear gear you're looking for a fun car that will run deep in the 12 second range,(without the nitrous) with the correct suspension and slicks, and will still work well with the nitrous which by the way works exceptionally well with this, combo
But it would be an absolute disaster to stick that engine in a Corvette with the late model TPI intake, and 2.57 rear gear's. And NO it won't pass emissions testing, and yes it makes well over 400 horsepower and if your any good at parts shopping it makes for a relatively inexpensive, engine combo
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: just your basic lower cost ,street 383

Postby grumpyvette » January 25th, 2009, 1:22 pm

now if your interested in getting really good mileage from a combo youll be sacrificing alot of high rpm potential if your building the combo to cruise efficiently, but that can still result in a combo that smokes tires and can pass other cars easily at highway speeds if you carefully plan out your goals and carefully sellect components.
alot of the potential in a combo built for cruising will be in selecting components that provide good low and mid rpm TORQUE.
and an OVER DRIVE GEAR TYPE TRANSMISSION like a 700r4 or 4L80E or a 5-6 speed manual with the over drive top gear is going to be a huge help.
IDEALLY youll want a rear gear ratio and first gear ratio that multiplied will fall in the 10:1-11:1 range to make moving the car from a stop easy, and a top gear and final drive ratio in the 2.3-2.9:1 ratio to keep cruise mileage reasonable.

think it thru..... mileage is mostly the result of EFFICIENT use of power, so youll want BOTH high efficiency at low and mid rpms and as much torque at off idle rpm ranges as you can get.
step one,
remove as much weight from the car/truck as you can, because it takes extra effort to move extra weight

step two
do the normal tune up stuff to the car, plugs, air filters checking tire pressure, ignition timing, etc.
but don,t forget the swap too the better synthetic oil/grease, in the rear and trans and engine as that lowers friction and over time it helps noticably

step three
install a vacume gauge where you can easily see it move the needle, and install a tach, keeping the engine under 3000rpm and the vacuum high tends to promote mileage.
verify the exhaust is not restricted and the cats are not clogged

step four
instantly accessable off idle torque is ideal. large displacement and high compression within reasonable limits due to the fuels octane and the intended use of the car are necessay in the component selection.
the higher that engine spins the more fuel it tends to use, the the use of high compression and big valves but reasonably small ports of a small port vortec style head and a dual plane intake matched to a small 450-500cfm carb would be ideal on a 350-383 thats run in that lower rpm range if mileage was the goal with that 2 or low 3 series rear gear ratio, but its not going to be a performance combo, its going to want to run in the 1500rpm-2500rpm band
ROLLER CAMS SELECTED TO MATCH THE INTENDED APPLICATION AND THE TPI EFI INTAKE can be a big asset here as both are designed to maximize the low and mid rpm torque


if mileage alone was my goal and I was limited to carbs , rather than a TPI type EFI,ID want vortec heads on a 350- 383 sbc with something similar to this cam and a 9:1 cpr with a 2.87:1 rear gear and an 700r4 trans or even better a manual trans
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browsePa ... e=camshaft

now if you want a decent SBC hydraulic roller with mileage in mind

ERSONS E119825
http://www.mrgasket.com/pdf/Chevrolet.pdf
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: just your basic lower cost ,street 383

Postby grumpyvette » February 8th, 2009, 6:09 pm

ANYTIME your going to plan an engine these compromises that must be made due to the cost vs benefits of the parts selected

IVE built several 6" rod 383s like I was untill recently running in my corvette, and Ive built dozens of the 5.7" rod length versions, over the years, most of the 383s I built were constructed with internally ballanced rotating assemblies.
in theory the 6" rods have some advantages but in reality they are not that much better, on a street strip combo, thats designed for daily transportation.

debating which to use?

ID suggest internally ballanced and forged components if your going to regularly exceed 6300rpm or use nitrous, and if you do, youll want a cam, durration, compression ratio and heads that will support the higher rpm potential.
so Id also strongly suggest 7/16" ARP rod bolts and aftermarket rods that are significantly stronger than reworked stock connecting rods

read these

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article085/A-P1.htm

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/art ... A14-P1.htm

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/art ... A16-P1.htm

http://www.bracketmasters.com/small_blo ... 383_cu.htm

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showt ... id/131229/
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: just your basic lower cost ,street 383

Postby grumpyvette » March 1st, 2009, 11:49 am

a nice combo for a 1969 manual trans (M21 in this case) camaro with a 3.73-4.11 rear gear ratio. that my freind has, hes also installed a full length 3" exhaust with an (X) PIPE and CALTRAC BARS

my software predicts a nice wide streetable tq curve and about 430hp/430ft lbs, which matches his results, keep in mind his goal was having a low 12 second car that gave him zero problems as daily transportation, and hes found a combo that does that very well.

BTW if youve got an auto trans a 3000-3200rpmrpm stall converter speed would be correct for the cam, and yeah youll still need the 3.73-4.11 rear gear to get the full potential of the combo

http://www.novaresource.org/caltracs.htm

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chev_sb_shortb.html
388 SBC Shortblock
Price
5140 steel crankshaft
6" street and strip rods
SRP flattop, dome or dish pistons
Race rings and bearings
Internally balanced
New GM 4 bolt block
$2,495
assembled

oil pan (verify because this differs between chassis/years)

http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/cgi ... key=15-240

cam

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... =LUN-00012

lifters
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... UN-71817PR

assembly lube
http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/35000/10002/-1

intake

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

heads

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku


headers

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... 700+400143

timing set

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

the cars reasonably fast at low 12s with zero tuning done, and only street tires


if youve got a few extra buck$ you can kick the combo power range up significantly with this roller cam,( below)and this intake, my software predicts a 500hp/500ft lbs with the correct springs, 1.6:1 roller rockers and that cam in the combo, naturally youll need to get different valve springs and check clearances and a rocker girdle would be a good idea

lifters
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku
intake
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku
cam
http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam ... 0&x=23&y=8

rockers
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

when you go to clearance a block and select components read the fine print on what your buying and remember to clearance the block and rods to clear the cam lobes, a clearance of,0.050" is OK, Ive always suggested 0.060" but thats not enough difference in clearance in that application to worry about.
EXAMPLE SCAT,IF your looking to save money theres a good deal of variation in kit components,aftermarket connecting rods with ARP 3/8" bolts are significantly stronger than stock rod bolts, and connecting rods so they are a big improvement, but in the future Id suggest looking at similar 7/16" cap screw rod kits with internally balanced cranks for most builds as the cost is usually only minimally higher.
forged cranks are nice, to brag about, but certainly more expensive and not required for a street/strip 383 that seldom sees 6400rpm,or similar applications
as a general rule you'll find 7/16" rods add about 20% more strength for a minimal cost upgrade.

3/8" rods(Fastener Yield Strength (psi) 160,000 psi)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-5700BPLW/



7/16" rods
Fastener Yield Strength (psi)200,000 psi


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-26000716/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-25700716/
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: just your basic lower cost ,street 383

Postby grumpyvette » March 27th, 2009, 12:10 pm

NOW lets assume your looking to upgrade a basic 1985 TPI corvettes stock 230 hp 350 into a rather nice street 383, yet your keeping in mind all components must work with the original gearing trans and computer with only minor re- tuning issues, you'll quickly find that under those restrictions the cam selected can,t be as wild because of the stock stall speed and rear gearing but that still allows a big boost in hp over the stock TPI with the correct components, while still maintaining the basic 1500rpm-5500rpm power band the TPI cars gearing, and intake, etc. is set up to work with

read this also

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=796

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=727

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=904

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=994

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=965

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=858

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1052

heres an example of a good basic TPI engine upgrade component list

rotating asembly

http://www.adperformance.com/index.php? ... cts_id=673 $995

oil pan
http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/cgi ... key=15-240 $360

heads

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku $1480

intake

http://www.firstfuelinjection.com/products.htm $995


fuel injectors
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

$270

cam (remember the 1985 is a flat tappet hydralic sbc cam)
E110024

http://pbmperformance.com/store.php?cat ... parent=327 $90

or
http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show ... vl=2&prt=5

roller rockers

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

$285
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida


Return to Engine Combos and Dynometer Database

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests