Electrical Wiring for a TBucket



Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby Indycars » December 6th, 2013, 5:37 pm


I'm trying to get ready for the new alternator from Brian, so I have created a
electrical drawing for the alternator and fan circuits. I want to make sure I'm
wiring it correctly and therefore buying the correct components. Eventually I
want to completely rewire the whole car from scratch or maybe buy a wiring
harness from someone like Painless, Autowire or Rebel.

I need to place and order soon, since I have off the week between Christmas
and New Years. Hope to get some real work done that week.

I most want feedback on whether the pieces are connected correctly, don't want
to burn anything up. Also the wire gauge sizes, are they correct???

Fan&Alt_Circuit.jpg


Below is the wiring diagram out of the Flex-A-Lite installation manual.

FanController-FlexALite.jpg


Any feedback or comments is greatly appreciated guys !!!

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
Indycars

User avatar
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4424
Joined: May 25th, 2010, 8:58 am
Location: Yukon, OK

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby grumpyvette » December 6th, 2013, 6:10 pm

almost everything looks great but Id make a couple changes,
your ability to draw that out and post it is amazing!

now obviously this is only a suggestion based on some experience in building race cars and you can ignore it , but Ive always felt that simple is better.
please ignore my sub standard computer skills here!
If it was my car Id color code all the wiring to make future trouble shooting far simpler
Id use only 10 ga wire no thinner gauge wire, I like the idea of not making things difficult or confusing

BE AWARE THE WIRE GAUGE AND RELAY AMP RATES VARY SO SHOP CAREFULLY
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-Ca ... 80067.html

http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-cor ... wiring.htm


Id color code all direct ground connections green
all direct power battery positive leads red
both HEAD LIGHTS a different shade of blue
fan lead orange
ID use a label maker to print out a label for each wire connection
READ LINK
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=6098&p=18837&hilit=label+numbers#p18837
Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby Indycars » December 6th, 2013, 7:39 pm


I've looked into creating custom line colors in Microsoft Visio, but have not
got there yet. No matter how the drawing looks, I do plan on having many
different colored wires in the actual wiring harness. Your idea about only
using 10 gauge might actually save money since I would not have to buy
100 ft of 7 different colored wires of 12, 14 and 16 gauge wire. Those three
sizes would cost roughly $300.00 for the GXL crossed link wire spools. That's
actual prices from Del-City wiring. I had already decided not to use any 18 gauge
wiring, which would work for some things.

http://www.delcity.net/

Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
Indycars

User avatar
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4424
Joined: May 25th, 2010, 8:58 am
Location: Yukon, OK

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby Indycars » December 6th, 2013, 8:36 pm


Grumpy,

After reading your link, I figured it would take two men and small boy to lift
that tube of labels, it's so big I had to go FULL SCREEN and page around. Maybe
this would work much better and won't take nearly as long to load when a new
member is reading that topic. Don't want any frustration and they leave.

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotchcode-Mar ... s=49518+3m
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... NGP3YCYZbl

12174.jpg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
Indycars

User avatar
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4424
Joined: May 25th, 2010, 8:58 am
Location: Yukon, OK

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby grumpyvette » December 7th, 2013, 9:18 am

thanks I went and fixed that over site, on that linked post

btw I found those pre-printed, fold-able plastic tape, number tags , on a dispenser rather useful for marking relays, and spark plug wires

and having a label printer handy while you wire the car has some advantages

Image

http://www.staples.com/Label-Makers/cat_CL90400

http://www.brother-usa.com/Ptouch/Ptouc ... uucKfLcSCk

3M sells these really handy number tape tags

Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby Indycars » December 7th, 2013, 11:55 am


I found this label machine by Dymo that prints directly on heat shrink tubing. The
down side is you have to buy their heat shrink tubing. But it would just as easy to
just use clear heat shrink and put it over the printed label using standard materials.

Cost on Amazon is $74.32 with shipping included.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005MR516Y/ref ... HNYMEF8XGA

DymoImage.jpg


It has plenty of symbols and different materials that might be convenient when
doing wiring.

DymoSymbols.JPG

DymoMaterials.JPG


Watch a video about the Dymo 4200 below.

http://www.dymo.com/en-US/online-suppor ... ew-video-p

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
Indycars

User avatar
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4424
Joined: May 25th, 2010, 8:58 am
Location: Yukon, OK

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby Indycars » December 8th, 2013, 8:01 pm


I've studying up on electrical wiring for automotive systems by readying everything I can find on the internet and also bought two books by Tony Candella. He also has a website where he sells many of the components he talks about, including the relays and connectors for waterproof conditions.

SA160ElectricalSystems.png

SA209Electrical Project.jpg


Considerable money can be saved by going elsewhere. I bough supplies for three relays, connectrs and terminals. I will have to add my own 10 gauge wires for the power connections, where most others only have 12 gauge pigtails for the power connections.

So bottom line it would have cost me $87 for three relays and connectors with pigtails. From Waytech I purchased the same thing for $38, the only difference is, I will have to add my own wires from the waterproof connector. Which means I will have to purchase a good crimping tool.

http://www.ceautoelectricsupply.com/rel ... noids.html
EC Electrical Components
wiredrelaysocket3_sm.jpg

hellawprelay_sm.jpg


Relay Specs with dimensions, I always need all the details I can get.

Waytek website
http://www.waytekwire.com/products/1401/Relays/

Hella Mini ISO Relay Specs.JPG


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
Indycars

User avatar
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4424
Joined: May 25th, 2010, 8:58 am
Location: Yukon, OK

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby Indycars » December 11th, 2013, 3:14 pm


As I move forward with this project, I need to decide whether to CRIMP or
SOLDER my connections. Most likely it will be a combination of both. I always
believed before this project that it can't get any better than a soldered
connection, but after much research I can see where crimping connections
has it's place. At some point this can be terribly expensive purchasing
everything I needed to get started, so I will be soldering the big connections
larger than 10 AWG so I don't have to buy another crimper for a few cables in
my car that are that big. Anything smaller and I plan to solder when convenient,
like when I can do it outside the car on the bench.

First are the supplies that I have purchased. All the wire, ring terminals,
braided sleeving, tools and heatshrink is just general supplies that I need,
but the waterproof relays and connector are specifically for the headlights,
one for low beam and one for high beam, another for the Flex-A-Lite fan.
All relays are made by Hella and rated at 20/40 amps. That rating means
the relay is rated for 20 amps continuous on the Normally Closed (NC)
contacts and 40 amps continuous for the Normally Open (NO) contacts.

FP01_Purchase_Waytek_Relay&Connectors.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/Tool-Aid-18960-Ra ... ords=18960
Tool-ToolAidCrimper_18960.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-11063 ... ools+11063
Tool-KleinWireStripper_11063.jpg


Luckily I found a 15% off coupon for Del City, which saved me $65.

http://www.delcity.net/
FP01_Purchase-Del-City-Wiring01.jpg
FP01_Purchase-Del-City-Wiring02.jpg



http://www.wirecare.com/

I plan on putting labels under the clear heatshrink.

FP01_HeatShrink-CrystalClear.jpg


I don't like the looks of the corrugated plastic loom material, so I'm going
to use this braided sleeve material. Wire Care website sells nine different
types and most come in about 12 different colors.

Watch this video of the braided sleeve by TechFlex. It covers some other info,
but the braided sleeving starts at 2 min:05 sec.

FP01_BraidedSleave-TechFlex.jpg


Terminology was making it difficult about what's Open Barrel and Closed Barrel.
I had an idea, but I needed to know for sure. Also, how do you tell when you
have a GOOD crimp. The info below should help with terms and knowing when
to redo that connection.

FP01_Molex_Industrial_BarrelTypes.jpg


The next three graphics are just closeups of the page above so you can see
clearly what's being shown.

FP01_Terminals-OpenBarrell.jpg

FP01_Terminals-CrimpTypes.jpg

FP01_Terminals-ClosedBarrell.jpg


And if you want to really ZOOM in, download this PDF file of the page.

Molex_Industrial_BarrelTypes.pdf


I would also suggest that you read thru this PDF, it's 27 pages long.
Yes I did read it all last night!
Ok, maybe I only read about 70% of it and skimmed the rest. I didn't
need to know how to crimp with a machine in a production environment.

http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/ats/TM-640160065.pdf


Enjoy the reading guys !!! :P

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
Indycars

User avatar
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4424
Joined: May 25th, 2010, 8:58 am
Location: Yukon, OK

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby grumpyvette » December 11th, 2013, 4:14 pm

wow!
I keep a rather extensive collection of wire ends, both crimp and solder style, and heat shrink tubes in various sizes and several rolls of different color 10 ga wire in the shop, some Ty-wraps ,and a couple wire strippers,crimpers and of course solder guns and solder and flux, but it looks like your going above and beyond! I vastly prefer soldered wire end connectors and heat shrink tube for most connections

RELATED THREAD
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=3504&p=33365&hilit=wire+crimp+solder#p33365

http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-cor ... wiring.htm
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby Indycars » December 11th, 2013, 7:25 pm


I can't say that all crimped connection are gas tight, but at least some of them
when done right are suppose to be. Also the act of crimping breaks thru the
oxidation and creates a direct copper wire to connector electrical connection.

I did consider your suggestion of using all 10 gauge wire or larger. I just don't
have the room or hidden out of the way places to hide wiring that would be
bigger. It also, to a small extent, might help tracing a wire thru the loom if
it's different size next to other wires.

Maybe you noticed, I did not order anything smaller than 16 AWG.

Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
Indycars

User avatar
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4424
Joined: May 25th, 2010, 8:58 am
Location: Yukon, OK

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby Indycars » December 22nd, 2013, 4:17 pm


Well I had a AH-HA MOMENT !
Image

It finally hit me that hooking the Variable Speed fan controller to energize a
relay will NOT work as it should. Yes it will power the fan on, but only at full
speed and not the 60% of max to begin with.

The drawing in my first post in this topic, I run a 16 AWG wire from the Yellow
wire on the controller to the relay coil. I will have to run a 10 AWG wire from
under my seat where the fan controller is, to the Flex-A-Lite fan. Total length
should be under 6 feet.

FP06_FanControllerWiring01.jpg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
Indycars

User avatar
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4424
Joined: May 25th, 2010, 8:58 am
Location: Yukon, OK

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby Indycars » December 22nd, 2013, 7:09 pm


I'm learning how to deal with this braided sleeve for wire management. It's certainly
not as easy as it looks before you get started. Making corrections, like removing a
wire and adding back another wire of different size is not easy. The damn stuff is
like a "Chinese Finger Trap". When I tried pulling a wire out, it just wanted to clamp
down even tighter. And it's never easy pushing a wire thru something, much easier
to pull it.

I had to have connectors, since I can't screw the sensor into the radiator while the
rest of the wire cannot rotate in the wiring harness. Anyway, below is the big picture.
Wires for temperature sensor will be hidden in the radiator shell, so to make this
easier, I staggered the connectors so they don't take as much room.

FP02_TempSensorWiring_5028.jpg

FP02_BraidedSleeve04_5020.jpg


This braided sleeve is suppose to be cut with a hot knife, so I used a box cutter
heated with a propane torch. But even then it would come apart while working with
it. So I will use heat shrink on every end of the sleeve to make it look neat and tidy.

The temp sensor uses 24 AWG, which is very fragile. It already came with it's own
black braided sleeve, but I put the red braided sleeve over both for more protection.
Again you can see that I staggered the connector to keep the package as small as possible.

FP02_BraidedSleeve01_5011.jpg


Having lots of different sizes of heat shrink is very helpful. I found some that was
just big enough to slip over everything, but still shrink down tight.

FP02_BraidedSleeve02_5013.jpg

FP02_BraidedSleeve03_5017.jpg


I used tape until I have the alternator and fan mounted, until then I can't know
exactly how long everything needs to be.

FP02_Harness_5026.jpg

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
Indycars

User avatar
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4424
Joined: May 25th, 2010, 8:58 am
Location: Yukon, OK

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby grumpyvette » December 22nd, 2013, 8:35 pm

its always BOTH a learning process and a P.I.T.A. at times to wire almost any custom built car electrical wiring but if you take notes and label things it will be fairly simple to trouble shoot and maintain
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby Indycars » December 22nd, 2013, 9:45 pm

grumpyvette wrote:its always BOTH a learning process and a P.I.T.A. at times to wire ......


I'm beginning to think I've met my match called wiring! But it's not just
wiring, it's the whole ball game.

What, When, and Where ... Then in which sequence do you put it to
all together???

No way have I've given up, just feeling a little frustration. :P

Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
Indycars

User avatar
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4424
Joined: May 25th, 2010, 8:58 am
Location: Yukon, OK

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby grumpyvette » December 22nd, 2013, 10:28 pm

just break down the process into individual circuits and wire each individually , labeling each end of each wire as you go and use fuses and relays as required.
I generally start with a couple good chassis grounds to the engine and transmission and a third ground strap from battery NEG to the ENGINE, and a second battery neg strap to the frame.
if you break it down to individual well labeled circuits its not that confusing

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=317&p=13210&hilit=wiring+diagram#p13210

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

User avatar
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14105
Joined: September 14th, 2008, 1:40 pm
Location: florida

Re: Electrical Wiring for a TBucket

Postby Indycars » December 23rd, 2013, 6:37 pm


I'm starting to smell Glyptal and alternator high temperature silver paint!!!

AlternatorShipping.jpg


Santa is almost here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

SantaClaus.jpg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Rick
Too much is just enough!!!

- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
Indycars

User avatar
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4424
Joined: May 25th, 2010, 8:58 am
Location: Yukon, OK

Next

Return to Ignitions & starters and electrically related components

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron