Traction bar install problem.



Traction bar install problem.

Postby mathd » March 10th, 2012, 8:49 am

Hey,
I have the Competition Engineering "slide-a-link" traction bars, item #: C2096
I am having a problem installing them, am posting a picture of the problem(because of HD leaf spring on the 80 z28?).

I think the best way to make them fit is cut and weld the bracket hole 7/16 higher(i did measure i need the hole about 0.410" higher).
I did think about cutting the leaf spring or replacing them, but id like to leave those alone as much as possible.

Let me know what is best, what YOU would be doing please :D

http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... e-2100.jpg
http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... 6c2100.pdf

Needless to say i was dissapointed about that, removing the spring hanger and removing/pressing(did the work under the car without a press) the bushing to find out it dont fit was a pita(rusted/busted/seized bolts) I still have to fix my torque box(rear subframe end) but the area to repair is small. I will post some picture of the progress and whats left to be done on this car for this year.
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby grumpyvette » March 10th, 2012, 9:08 am

well the first thing ID suggest is calling the manufacturer and asking where you can forward those pictures so you can discuss either returning the traction bars or what they can do to help out here?
I doubt your the first guy to have that issue they probably have a different part number traction bar that fits correctly

obviously the problem is that the bars were designed for a thinner single leaf spring not what you have, now if they can send you a refund you can get different traction bars,
if your dealing with people that basically say "go screw yourself" that looks like a problem thats rather easily fixed with careful measurement, some test fitting and cutting off those current side location plates and fabricating and welding on new plates with the connection bolt hole mounted about 0.75" higher from the spring to allow much greater clearance, I doubt it would take over 2 hours to fabricate and weld custom side mount plates Id make a cardboard template and locate the correct location and have new plates fabricated and welded on IF THEY DON,T GIVE YOU A REFUND or NEW TRACTION BARS
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby mathd » March 10th, 2012, 9:50 am

Thanks for the reply.
I sent an email to moroso/competition engineering with the picture. am awaiting the reply.

lets hope they have a replacmenet parts that will fit, i dont want to "have to" remove the front spring bushing since i dont have a press and the rear side of the leaf spring are still attached to the car(i drilled the rubber for the old one and cut and crush the steel sleeve from the inside to drive it out) its best to stay with this design now those stupid bushing are in :/

Otherwise i will have a shop modify the bracket for me.
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby Indycars » March 10th, 2012, 11:43 am

I can't tell from the photo, but if distance "A" is great enough, then you could reuse
the bracket that's there. Just cut the welds with a cut off wheel, grind the welds.
Move the bracket up and re-weld.

You will need to make a judgement call about the lateral stiffness of the bracket after
moving, since there will not be as much overlap.

TractionBarHanger01.jpg

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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby mathd » March 12th, 2012, 2:42 pm

ok here is the reply i got:
What you will need to do is trim the leaf back a bit so that the bracket will sit flush against the one leaf on top. This is not uncommon to have to do when installing slide a link to some factory springs.


Now, what tool is best for doing this job? will an electrical angle grinder with a cutting disk do the job?
Hope this wont affect my ride height or whatever that relate to my suspension :/.

Or should i get cut/weld the bracket?

What you think is best?
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby grumpyvette » March 12th, 2012, 3:41 pm

cutting the leaf spring thats causing the clearance issue with s die grinder can be done and while it will certainly take a good deal of time its not all that technically difficult to do, but be sure NOT TO cut the other leaf spring or even scratch is as that will cause a potential stress riser point in the spring surface.

if you have access to a local auto spring fabrication company you could have two options ,

(1)just carefully mark the offending area of the spring (LIGHT GREEN)and have them cut it as they have the necessary tool to do that in seconds and should not charge much to dis-assemble , cut and re-bind the spring leaves.

(2) have them make up a custom single stronger MONO leaf spring, using your current springs as a pattern , like the early first gen camaro and fire-birds had that will clear and reduce weight


Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby Indycars » March 12th, 2012, 3:42 pm


I think this is what they are saying to do......right?

TractionBarHanger02.jpg


I would be concerned about cutting the leaf spring and removing the yellow section. That puts a lot of stress right there on the main leaf now. If it fails, then it's going to be without warning.

If the bracket fails after moving, then it would most likely bend laterally (side to side) without a complete failure, assuming the weld was good. Giving you a chance to notice and take action.

How much overlap does the bracket have now and then after it was moved how much overlap would it have ??? By overlap I'm referring to the distance "A".
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby mathd » March 12th, 2012, 4:24 pm

I did take some measurement, the second leaf is about 3/8 thick and there is a little pad at its end thats 1/16 thick(total extra thickness is about .410")(that is also the distance the bolt hole is missaligned to the bracket). i think 7/16(0.437") would be just perfect as there is an u-bolt holding down the bracket tight to the leaf spring.

The distance A is not great enough to allow for 7/16" because of the bent.

I did think more about the leaf spring cutting and its not something am willing to do.
I dont really want to replace the leaf spring since they are correct and removing them include removing the fuel tank wich i want to avoid for this year.(1 month left so i can take that car out on the street again)

The bracket do not have a hudge side-to-side load, and if its to fail it will let me take action before something bad happen, i agree on that :)
Tomorrow i will get the bracket to the local machine shop(just to make sure they make it extra strong), i guess they will cut the weld and make a new piece to weld instead. OR they will cut it (about where your yellow line is) and make only the top of the piece with the extra 7/16 extra.

I will update when its done.

Wish i had bought caltracs instead... :/
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby Indycars » March 12th, 2012, 5:15 pm

If it's not a big problem, you might want to take the aluminum bushing out of the spring eye and take it along with the bracket. That way the shop can make sure it slides in without having to force it.

The bracket do not have a hudge side-to-side load, and if......
If you like to take corners at an elevated speed, then they do take the cornering loads. Unless you have a panhard rod or some other suspension member.
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- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby mathd » March 12th, 2012, 5:16 pm

I have installed the bushing only on one side yet, so am sending the 2 bracket with the other side bushing :)
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby mathd » March 14th, 2012, 10:45 am

Ok, here is what the machine shop did(i will use some chrome/nickel paint before final assembly.)
Its a little tight, had to use the u-bolt to swing it back but it do not require heavy pressure.
I think am happy with the result.
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby grumpyvette » March 14th, 2012, 11:17 am

congrats on fixing your problem, looks like they did a good job

this is one more in an endless list of reasons that those in this hobby need to either join clubs with members that have the necessary tools that work cheaply or are willing to trade fabrication work for help on their projects or for guys to buy and use their own tools, now think thru the fact that if you had a decent welder and a band saw and die grinder and a drill press and/or a plazma cutter hundreds of similar problems would and could be easily and cheaply done by you vs paying the local machine shop.
almost everyone is reluctant to pay for tools but the truth is that if your really into this hobby the purchase of tools like a drill press and air compressor and welder are purchases that quickly pay for themselves in money not paid out to machine shops, I don,t know what you paid but the $70-$150 that many shops would charge for that work and dozens of similar issues where I found myself waiting on and paying others to do my fabrication work, (and frequently having the work done wrong or sloppy) forced me to eventually start learning new skills and acquiring more tools.
yeah! if the wife knew what I spent for tools over the last 40 plus years she would have her head explode, but when the subject comes up I grin and tell her its cheaper than supporting a mistress


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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby Indycars » March 14th, 2012, 11:57 am

mathd wrote:Ok, here is what the machine shop did(i will use some chrome/nickel paint before final assembly.)

A little JB Weld on those welds and sanding smooth before painting will make that look like it was never modified. 8-)
Rick
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- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby mathd » March 14th, 2012, 12:32 pm

Thanks,

I already have the welder and drill press. Am looking for a good compressor that can be used with air tool and for painting car parts(hood)but i only have 110v volt right now. So am still unsure about what size to buy and if 110v will do the job or not.. I gotta read that compressor info and milling machine related info link just right now.
I wish i had a lathe and a mill, those are plans for the late futur :) oh yes, and an oxy-acetylene torch, a plasme cutter.. wish list is VERY long :)

the shop charged 59$ for that
1.82$ for the steel
39.96 for the labor time(40 min)
and 9.68 for some grade 8 bolt/nut/washer
about 8$ tax(yes in qc we pay double tax.. or a taxe over the other tax as many say...
All that was ready the same day and with top of the line service.. now you know why i love my local machine shop :D

Interesting about the JB weld, am just back from the store from buying the paint and it was right in front of me lol :/
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby Indycars » April 10th, 2012, 5:45 pm

I hope you have them installed by now, or else you are slower than I am! ;)

Did it solve any problems? Can you pull the front wheels now? What's the verdict?
Rick
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- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: Traction bar install problem.

Postby grumpyvette » April 10th, 2012, 6:42 pm

mathd wrote:Thanks,

I already have the welder and drill press. Am looking for a good compressor that can be used with air tool and for painting car parts(hood)but i only have 110v volt right now. So am still unsure about what size to buy and if 110v will do the job or not.. I gotta read that compressor info and milling machine related info link just right now.
I wish i had a lathe and a mill, those are plans for the late future :) oh yes, and an ox-acetylene torch, a plasma cutter.. wish list is VERY long :)...


yes the list is truly endless , because those sneaky tool guys are constantly improving, changing and upgrading things.
and whats really sneaky is you can spend $6K-$7K on a mill or lathe and its useless until you spend another $1k-$2K on tooling and accessories like cutters, vises tool heads etc.
I gave up worrying about it, and buy what I can when I can afford too, and try not to go into too much debt , but the one thing I learned early is that youll seldom be happy with the cheaper tools, now that doesn,t necessarily mean you need top of the line tools but the less expensive versions are seldom a good bargain.
the more I use welders the more I see the advantages of having a good MIG and a GOOD TIG in the shop that have at least a 200 amp rating, I tried several 110 volt migs, the better brands like Lincoln and miller work great on light stuff like exhaust pipe, but were nearly useless on heavy frame and suspension mods, I went a bit crazy thru frustration with earlier purchases and bought a miller 252 mig and a older used 330 amp TIG at a good price, both proved to be excellent tools
theres a whole section on welders on this site ID advise reading thru it.

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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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