From 144 to D1-SC



From 144 to D1-SC

Postby DorianL » July 21st, 2009, 2:43 pm

Hey All,

Time to step up...

I did a run just a few days ago with a babyblown SBC 400 with roller cam and AFR 210 heads. and the very best I could get out of it was high 12s.

I guess I out grew that B&M 144. It improves the mid range decently, but the top end falls short of my expectations. Back from dyno, I managed to squeeze out 478 HP at 5000 rpm and 520 TQ at 3500/4500. PSI ranged from 5 to 7 and that was pushing the blower to the limit. At the track the guy on the other side would get away at the top of each gear.

Soooo, I decided to resell my baby and step up to a D1-SC.

I'll document and post dyno results here.


:mrgreen: D

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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby grumpyvette » July 21st, 2009, 5:18 pm

you'll find your in a WHOLE different world, with the new supercharger, you'll have advanced FAR higher into the upper hp levels once its correctly tuned



the difference will be very significant, like the difference between a first kiss.....and a honey moon, with a really friendly new wife, one is nice, but the others a whole new world, and a good deal more fun!
Keep in mind with the higher boost comes higher air temps, a good inter cooler is almost mandatory if your going to get the full potential from that supercharger, and a second fuel cell that allows you to use some octane booster , when the boost goes up,like toluene or ethanol sure won,t hurt.
There is also a good chance you'll need to upgrade the fuel supply system pump,and line size, etc.
ID suggest AN#8 lines

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=733

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=613&hilit=+booster

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=211

viewtopic.php?f=86&t=1329

viewtopic.php?f=86&t=1256
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby DorianL » July 22nd, 2009, 10:12 am

I spoke to the procharger folks and they said that my water/meth injection should be just the ticket. The said they actually prefer water/meth to intercooling but most people are too chicken to use it because they have reliability concerns. If it fails...

I have a fail safe retard intalled on my water/meth-MSD box.

BTW, I think I figured out where the catch was... consider the below logic:

My dyno results were telling and the track results even more so when opposition got away from me at the top of each gear.

At the dyno I had 520 TQ from 3500 to 4500. Power dropped off quickly after that. From 3500 to 4500 I would quickly hit 5 psi but never seemed to be able to get over 7 psi in the higher rpm.

Then it occured to me. The manifold! That ultra low manifold must be seriously restricting flow. That 7 psi is back pressure, not filled cylinders!

For me to be making less than 480 dynoed HP at WOT and 7 PSI I would have to be making 320 HP N/A :crazy:

Assume this engine was efficient, and at N/A properly tuned, would make 1:1 HP/cubic-inch... I'd be a very happy man at 7 PSI with 590 ponies... roughly estimated.

My plan now is to replace the babyblower with a D1-SC, and the ultra low profile intake with the recommended Victor Jr intake. All this should flow like lightning.

Assume the Vic Jr. combination N/A flows an easy 400 HP and I am planning on increasing boost to 10 psi... Holy Crap, what have I gotten myself into??? Tickling 600 HP?

I have the before dyno results. I will photo document the transformation here and post the "after" dyno results as well.

Stay tuned...

:mrgreen: D
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby DorianL » July 22nd, 2009, 10:15 am

Oh, I have water/meth injection. The procharger people recommended that. 8-)

The fuel pump will be upgraded to an Aeromotive A1000, boost ref-ed + AN-10 retun line...
Last edited by DorianL on July 22nd, 2009, 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby grumpyvette » July 22nd, 2009, 10:17 am

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-300-110/
Image

this intake seriously out flows the vic jr, if its not going to be clearance issue ID suggest that as a better choice

the centrifugal supercharger will open your eyes to a whole new world, the old 144 was basically restricted to pumping air in a directly matched ratio of volume and rpm that reached its volumetric efficiency limits at about 4000rpm regardless of the engine its mounted on, the centrifugal supercharger will be far more effective up to 6000plus rpm, you'll lose a bit of off idle response but get far better mid and upper rpm to compensate, enough more that youll be amazed!
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby DorianL » July 22nd, 2009, 3:56 pm

Just ordered the holley intake instead.
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby DorianL » July 28th, 2009, 3:10 pm

Update -

Hey All,

Confirmed, parts ship this week and next week. I am going with a D1-SC on a Keith Dorton Signature series intake. It will be pulleyed to give 10 PSI at 5500 rpm.

Speaking Steve Morris, likely with the water/meth I can get near mid 30 degrees total. Careful tho'

As for the jets 80/80 is a good start as blowthroughs require less jets. Most combos I have seen running 4150 850 DPs are in the lower 70s. Apparently this relates to the fact the pressure is equalized and applied in the float bowls as well.

I'll be using NGK #8 as plug.

Dyno will tell but according to the math, 600+ HP is possible. Significantly more is not unlikely.

Stay tuned

D.
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby DorianL » August 1st, 2009, 3:38 pm

Image

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OLD
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NEW IMPROVED
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby grumpyvette » August 1st, 2009, 5:19 pm

Like I said , that new intake manifold is going to provide a lot less restriction to air flow into those heads, once you hook up the rest of the a D1-SC supercharger and related plumbing !
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby DorianL » August 5th, 2009, 3:46 am

Getting a little concerned here... I lost a lot of low mid-range... But relatively speaking it pulls more on the top end now...
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby grumpyvette » August 5th, 2009, 6:24 am

you lost mid range because the old supercharger was providing significant BOOST in the mid rpm ranges, once you get the new centrifugal installed its going to amaze you what the differences are, the mear fact that the current combo has a stronger upper rpm pull indicates how restrictive the old combo was even with a mini supercharger
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby DorianL » August 20th, 2009, 2:42 pm

Mocking things up a bit...

The PS pump wont fit...

Image

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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby grumpyvette » August 20th, 2009, 3:23 pm

[quote="DorianL"]Mocking things up a bit...

The PS pump wont fit...

THAT MEANS YOULL EITHER DEVELOP LARGER ARM MUSCLES OR NEED NEW PS BRACKETS

links below should help

http://www.alangrovecomponents.com/Powe ... .htm#small

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=200

http://www.millerspeed.com/
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby DorianL » August 21st, 2009, 2:36 pm

Image

Not sure how a lower bracket can be bolted on there... it looks like the block hasn't been drilled or tapped...
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby grumpyvette » August 21st, 2009, 2:56 pm

drilling and tapping the block should ideally be done at a machine shop with a bare block, but its a rather simple process that can be done with portable tools like a hand drill if you have the bracket as a drill location guide and a drill depth collar to prevent drilling to deep and a hand t-handle tap.
a third option is fabricating custom brackets to use existing threaded holes like studs in the water pump and motor mount or that weld onto the motor mount
Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: From 144 to D1-SC

Postby DorianL » August 21st, 2009, 2:59 pm

bailing my ass out as usual. Thanks boss.
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