replacing serpentine hoses and belts



replacing serpentine hoses and belts

Postby grumpyvette » April 16th, 2010, 8:59 am

If the belts correctly installed and correctly adjusted ,it should be reasonably difficult to exceed 1/2" deflection over the fan belts unsupported length,PROVIDED the belt tensioned pulley is adjusted correctly (usually the alternator, on v-belts) and if you've got a belt tensioned (serpentine belts)is working correctly, but some FAN BELT DRESSING should add a bit of traction surface and cure the problem, its sprayed onto the belt at idle speeds so it covers both the belt and pulley surfaces,
so be careful not to get grabbed by the fan belt of get belt dressing thrown onto your shirt,etc. and NEVER EVER WEAR LOOSE CLOTHES OR A TIE while adjusting ANYTHING ON a running engine

if you find belts squeal or your wearing belts or belts are coming off at higher rpms ,STOP and look very closely!
and do a very close inspection,of all the accessorizes, try wiggling accessories once the belts removed and check pulley groove alignment very carefully, with a strait edge yard stick, because at times a squealing belt indicates come component or accessory drive is coming loose, damper bolts or accessories pulleys do get loose


http://www.waybuilder.net/sweethaven/Me ... &modNum=12

http://autorepair.about.com/od/quicktip ... essing.htm

http://automotivemileposts.com/autobrev ... ecoil.html

swapping to a tooth belt is an option

http://www.stefs.com/products/gilmerbeltcharts.htm

these guys sell cog belt drives
http://www.millerspeed.com/
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if the radiator or heater hose swells noticeably and feels spongy , or if the hose has obvious surface flaking or cracks the hose is deteriorated internally to the point mandatory replacement is required or your looking at it failing withing a few months, or just weeks time in most cases.
if a serpentine belt starts to show cracks in its ribs, or frayed edges, you also check the pulley alignment and condition of the pulley surfaces, as rust or mis-alignment will cause wear issues.
heat and age and in a few cases use of the wrong coolant , or exhaust leaks in head gaskets or getting misted with petroleum products from an oil, power steering or transmission fluid leak will deteriorate the hose , or belt rubber.
if its the result of oil age and heat you replace it and if its the result of a fluid leak you cure the leak source first and replace it and, you can assume all belts and hoses need to be replaced by the time they are about 5-6 years old or by about 60k- miles which ever comes first, as a normal maintenance replacement item if your not looking to get stranded
yes IM fully aware theres thousands of cars running original belts and hoses at 140k miles, many are pushing their luck, if not carefully inspected frequently.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/belthose.htm

hose clamps also tend to rust or loose tension over time causing them to fail so use of new clamps when installing a hose is good maintenance, procedure
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: replacing hoses and belts

Postby grumpyvette » April 16th, 2010, 9:20 am

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heres two factory serpentine belt systems you might want to look for in salvage yards

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-900035/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12497697/

http://www.jonesracingproducts.com/cat.pdf

http://www.classicchevy.com/engine-and- ... lleys.html

http://www.kwikperf.com/

http://www.kwikperf.com/bbc_serp_kit.html
ADAPTER KITS

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ID SUGGEST READING THRU THE LINKED INFO

http://www.corvettemagazine.com/2001/ap ... entpg1.asp

http://www.kwikperf.com/bbc_serp_kit.html

http://www.chevelle.com/Crank-Pulleys-C687.aspx

on many new cars you'll need a tool similar to this one to temporarily remove belt idler tension to replace a serpentine belt

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_re ... ntine_belt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgc9srC0_pc


http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categoryd ... code=29008

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-14528/

http://www.streetsideauto.com/p/moroso- ... ign=Nextag

you can move the top pulley outward with shims that MOROSO SELLS


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youll need to verify PROPER pulley and BELT alignment
in many cases belts being thrown are the result of loose tension-er pulleys or pulley mus-alignment

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http://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/serpbelt/

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First and foremost, make sure you have a diagram before removing the old belt. If there isn't one under the hood, get out the pencil and paper and draw it out labeling the pulleys and arrows pointing to the direction the belt travels on them. Save this paper in the glove compartment when the job is done for future reference. As far as replacing goes, it depends on the engine. Believe it or not, they are different amongst manufacturers, makes and models, so B-clear! If there is a spring loaded tension-er, you'll need to turn the tension-er back to relieve pressure, and slide the belt off the tension-er pulley. Depending on the tension-er, you may be able to use a socket wrench with the right socket, 3/8" drive with socket wrench, or in some cases, you'll need a tool that is meant for just this called a belt tension-er wrench. After it is relieved of tension, the belt can be removed. The new one gets routed the same, if you can,t remember, refer to your diagram. If you didn't make one and can,t remember, .. Some belts require motor mounts to be removed and some are just plain nasty.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: replacing hoses and belts

Postby grumpyvette » December 8th, 2011, 3:43 pm

Modifier
12497697 Serpentine Accessory Belt Drive System "Deluxe Without Air"
This deluxe serpentine belt drive system without air conditioner includes all the components to install on small-block Chevrolet engines. The bolts, nuts, spacers and braces are included with the following major items:
10055800 Secondary air injector pump bracket
10129569 Idler belt pulley bracket
88894005 Water pump kit
10055880 Water pump pulley
10055879 Crankshaft pulley
10463172 Generator assembly (reman.)
12117361 Generator connector (with lead)
10055798 Drive belt tensioner assembly
10085752 Belt (fan, water pump, A/C pump, and generator)
10105212 Generator & power ateering bracket 26010328 Power steering pump
14102096 Power steering pump pulley


12497698 Serpentine Accessory Belt Drive System "Deluxe With Air"
This deluxe serpentine belt drive system with air conditioner includes all the components to install on small-block Chevrolet engines. The bolts, nuts, spacers and braces are included with the following major items:
10055800 Secondary Air Injector pump bracket
1134344 Air compressor assembly, (CR4)
10129569 Idler belt pulley bracket
88894005 Water pump kit
10055880 Water pump pulley
10055879 Crankshaft pulley
10463172 Generator assembly (reman.)
12117361 Generator connector (with lead)
10055798 Drive Belt Tensioner Assembly
10085752 Belt (fan, water pump, A/C pump, and generator)
10105212 Generator & power steering bracket
26010328 Power steering pump
14102096 Power steering pulley



12497869 Serpentine Accessory Belt Drive System "Base with Brackets and Bolts"
This base serpentine belt drive system includes bolts, nuts, bracket, braces, pulleys, and water pump to install on small-block Chevrolet engine. Does not include the air compressor, alternator, power steering pump. Listed below are the major components:
10055800 Seconcary air injector pump bracket
10129569 Idler belt pulley bracket
10055880 Water pump pulley
10055879 Crankshaft pulley
88894005 Water pump kit
12117361 Generator connector (with lead)
10055798 Drive belt tensioner assembly
10105212 Generator & power steering bracket
14102096 Power steering pump pulley

http://www.kwikperf.com/bbc_serp_kit.html
http://www.kwikperf.com/bbc_m4.html

http://www.jonesracingproducts.com/cat.pdf


For anyone interested - from my research I believe these are all of the GM parts needed for a full serpentine conversion. You may not need all of them (compressor/alternator, etc.)

10055798 Drive Belt Tensioner Assembly
10055800 Secondary Air Injector pump bracket
10129569 Idler belt pulley bracket
88894005 Water pump kit
10055880 Water pump pulley
10055879 Crankshaft pulley
12117361 Generator connector (with lead)
10055798 Drive Belt Tensioner Assembly
10085752 Serpentine Belt (fan, water pump, A/C pump, and generator)
10105212 Generator & power steering bracket
26010328 Power steering pump
14102096 Power steering pulley
1134344 Air compressor assembly
10463172 Generator assembly (reman.)
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: replacing serpentine hoses and belts

Postby 66chev » January 3rd, 2012, 7:28 pm

I thought I'd add that the wear on a serpentine belt can be checked using a wear gauge supplied for free from Gates.
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Re: replacing serpentine hoses and belts

Postby grumpyvette » January 4th, 2012, 9:38 am

thanks for posting that!

btw how long do you gentlemen normally use a serpentine belt before replacing them?
yeah! I know most guys replace them only when they look worn,
Ive found replacing them if they look worn is obviously a good idea and yeah!
I carry a new one in the trunk along with the tools to replace it and spare radiator hoses and tools on the road, but generally I replace them and the radiator hoses and major vacuum lines, and ignition wires and spark plugs, cap and rotor and basically all wear items at multiples of 70K-80K miles even if they don,t look overly worn, I also replace them and brake fluid, and brake pads once they get to 60K even if those don,t look really worn , but obviously on a corvette, or any performance application they tend to get replaced far more frequently than on the wifes mercury which rarely gets to see over 3500rpm or over 70mph unlike the corvettes
the oil changes were for decades done at 3500-4500 miles but for the last few years Ive let that slide to 7000-9000 miles, between oil changes with only the oil filter changed at 3500-4500 miles, and I have seen no indications it hurt a darn thing, but I do use mostly synthetic oil mixed with a quart of marvel mystery oil and my corvettes got a custom 9 quart capacity in a baffled 10 qt oil pan
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: replacing serpentine hoses and belts

Postby Indycars » January 4th, 2012, 11:49 am

I can't disagree with with what you've said, but why replace brake pads even if they don't look worn ???

The larger volume of oil will be able to hold more contaminants, therefore allowing a vehicle to go further than an identical vehicle with 5 qt capacity. So you are still changing oil sooner then most people.


Belt Load Limitations

Drive belt width is a critical factor in selecting a replacement alternator.
Commonly-installed vee-belts and multi-groove serpentine belts have specific
limits regarding the amperage and horsepower loads they can support.

As a rule of thumb, 12-volt alternators use one horsepower for every 25 amps
of output, or to put it another way, their ratio of output to horsepower load is
25:1. So, when selecting a new alternator, you need to size it for the limits of
the capacity of its drive belt. Otherwise, your system will be plagued by
premature belt wear, belt slippage and potential damage to your alternator
and engine. See the following chart, and note that dual vee-belts and serpentine
belts can support much larger loads.

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Rick
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- Check Out My Dart SHP Engine Project: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814
- Need a Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator: viewtopic.php?f=99&t=4458
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Re: replacing serpentine hoses and belts

Postby grumpyvette » January 4th, 2012, 12:05 pm

Indycars wrote:I can't disagree with with what you've said, but why replace brake pads even if they don't look worn ???

The larger volume of oil will be able to hold more contaminants, therefore allowing a vehicle to go further than an identical vehicle with 5 qt capacity. So you are still changing oil sooner then most people.


don,t mis-understand, the brake pads show wear from use, they just don,t MANDATE IMMEDIATE replacement as they are about 1/2-to-2/3rds worn, I feel its just better to change them a bit early than waiting
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: replacing serpentine hoses and belts

Postby 66chev » January 4th, 2012, 4:19 pm

I maintain 40+ vehicles at work, (mainly vans) and I change the the belts at 80,000 miles. Considering all that runs off from one belt it seems like money well spent. In the eight years that I've worked there I haven't lost one belt and we put at least 200,000 on the vehicles before we retire them.

As far as oil changes I change it at 3,000 to 3,500 miles using synthetic blend oil. All of the vehicles hold 5 to 7 quarts.
The question I have on oil change intervals even with full synthetic oil is even if the oil and the additives are still good at 7,000 plus miles what about the smaller particles of dirt that get by the filter? I don't know exactly what an oil filter filters down to, say 7 or 8 microns. What about the dirt that is 6 microns? Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, if someone has an answer to that I would like to know.
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Re: replacing serpentine hoses and belts

Postby Indycars » February 10th, 2012, 12:51 pm

I've been known to remove the serpentine belt, then start thinking about how did that come off,
and there was no diagram under the hood. I finally gave up trying to figure it out and this
document seemed to be the only solution to most every car or truck.

http://www.daycoproducts.com/daycoweb.n ... gGuide.pdf

SerpentineBeltDiagrams.JPG



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Re: replacing serpentine hoses and belts

Postby grumpyvette » February 10th, 2012, 1:21 pm

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: replacing serpentine hoses and belts

Postby grumpyvette » July 30th, 2012, 2:02 pm

I don,t know whats up with some of the auto parts counter guys , I decided to replace a slightly worn serpentine fan belt on one corvette and a couple v belts on my brother in laws 1974 big block corvette, out of the three belts we purchased ZERO FIT CORRECTLY, so I brought the old belts down to the local auto parts when returned the new belts to exchange those, in the old days the auto parts stores had a fan belt measuring tool that you simply placed your old belt on, and read a number, obviously those days are long gone.
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http://www.kwikperf.com/bbc_serp_kit.html

http://vintageair.com/DownloadsSection/ ... net%29.pdf

IF you have the old belt take it to the local NAPA or similar store , or measure its length and width carefully, its usually easy to do if the belts cut so you can measure end to end
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if you know a particular company that makes a quality line of fan belts (both serpentine and V belts) and CLEARLY prints the fan belt part numbers in several places on each fan belt ID sure like to know what brand that is, and what parts stores carry those belts. , as its a huge positive selling point in my opinion.
I get so darn frustrated dealing with parts counter jerks that could not look up the correct fan belt about 7 out of 10 times if their lives depended on getting the correct results.
especially if the part number accurately refers to the length of the belt, as in a easy system, to read, lets say the belts an 8 rib serpentine belt, thats 66" long , it would sure help if the part number was something like 8rsx66.0



these links may help, but each company has their own unique part numbering system

http://www.ehow.com/how_7510183_read-fa ... mbers.html

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki ... thout_part

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10193&p=40352#p40352

http://www.autobeltsonline.com/serpenti ... rence.html SERPENTINE

http://www.goodyearep.eu/productsDetail ... gType=2057

http://crossbelts.com/serpentinebelts.html

http://www.autobeltsonline.com/autobelt ... rence.html V BELTS

http://www.vbeltsupply.com/

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=9776&p=36972#p36972

Belt sizing is fairly simple, you don't need to know the part number for the size belt you need, you just need to figure out how the part number is made up, as it is made up of the belt width, and the circumference of the belt. with Gates V belts it's pretty simple to figure out as the information is easy to read out of the part numbers.

I'll only explain Gates belts, there the most common belts used and there # cross reference to other company's anyway

You have the belt width, it is in a code but simple to follow, as it's only 2 numbers

67= 3/8" width

68= 1/2" width

69= 5/8" width

Now that you have the width you need, you just need the length which is easy it's the actual measurement in inches with one decimal place, in HALF INCH INCREMENTS only. The decimal is omitted for the part number

So for example a 50" long 5/8" belt might be needed, so you order a 6950 belt. A 5/8" belt 50 1/2" inches long would be a 6955

just to make sure that length is available go to http://www.gates.com and search the part number

A fairly straightforward way to come up with a custom sized belt is to get a new or used belt that is like what you need but much longer. Cut it. Route it as you need it with and tensioning device fully slackened. Then clamp the belt ends tight to each other with locking pliers. Then tighten the belt about halfway. When you are satisfied you then have a sample belt which your local parts counter person will find amusing but will most likely be able to match up. The reason to tighten your sample belt halfway is that the match won't be exact, the new belt will almost always be a bit longer or shorter. Setting your sample size at midpoint gives you some leeway. This also works with serpentine belts. They are easier to clamp tightly with the pliers than V-belts. But many serpentine setups have spring loaded tensioners which make it difficult to pinpoint the midway sizing. Such estimated on serpentine setups to err towards too long so it seems to be best to look for a new belt a bit shorter than your setup belt. A really good way to get such sizing right the first time only works if you have a very cooperative parts person. Such a person might allow you to purchase the closest matching belts and later return the one(s) you didn't need. Most parts stores keep a good selection of belts on hand, but they don't have EVERY belt available. They may not have one quite close enough for what you need. But they should be able to look one up and order it for you.

looking for a pollished BBC assembly?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bsp-1 ... structions

water pump pulley extends out the furthest from the block surface ,so verify you have an ABSOLUTE minimum of 7.3" between block and any radiator or cross brace before ordering, or theres ZERO chance youll get it to fit without modifying some component

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http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engine ... ey-system/
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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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