getting started in the car hobby



getting started in the car hobby

Postby grumpyvette » October 3rd, 2008, 2:49 pm

Im 66 and look it!, I remember ALMOST all the mistakes and what worked TOO!(plus I cheat I keep notes and records on all the engines and cars Ive built, or worked on!) Ive come bye most of the scars and info by experience and watching closely, both my own and others experiences
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heres some advice!

you ABSOLUTELY NEED A SHOP MANUAL FOR YOUR CAR,YEAR,MAKE,MODEL

http://www.helminc.com/helm

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If there's a Corvette club in your area , JOIN IT,!
if theres a hotrodders club, JOIN IT,!
you don,t need to like all the members,.......odds are good that about 30% know far less than you do,....or are no help at all, ....30% are much more skilled,......than you are, but your there to share skills and knowledge, LEARN FROM THEM, and HELP, become familiar with the tools, take the time, and help each other, its a two way street, don,t expect help if your not willing to help others,etc.

ask some of the members for suggestions and help and BE WILLING TO HELP WITH THEIR PROBLEMS, ITS A LEARNING PROCESS
your bound to find good contacts that will be helpful and a few total jerks you'll want to totally avoid in any group, but don,t let the jerks dis-swade you from getting the benefits and making the contacts you need!


thats a valid suggestion.....you may also want to go to the local tracks DRAG RACE AND CIRCLE TRACK carry a large pad and pen and ask for contacts, clubs,suppliers,club info, etc. make friends and ask the faster guys with the better looking cars , what machine shops and garages/mechanics they would suggest, when you get in over your head. in many cases they will know who the scam artists and rip off garages are and who does good dependable work at reasonable rates, but its been my experience that the best thing you can do is join a local hot rodders or corvette club and between the members contacts and your own resources, YOU will be able to do , and should do,most work your self with some help and knowledge from the guys you make contacts with, in your local clubs, no one but YOU will do QUALITY work and take the time on the details like YOU will on YOUR CORVETTE

keep in mind that theres very few things a decent machine shop and a semi skilled corvette owner with a few friends can,t easily fix, ESPECIALLY if they are willing too take the effort too research the problem , then adjust or replace the parts that are causing the problem, theres nothing mystical or really difficult, but you'll need to know what your doing, and what needs testing and or replacing and that may take research or some investment in tools and learning test procedures, don,t be in awe, theres not a darn thing you can,t learn to do!
youll need basic mechanics tools and having 4 good 12 ton jack stands

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=34924

and a decent floor jack, and some car club friends sure helps, if you have SAFE AND STURDY ,easy access under the car maintenance and repairs are easier to do!
Ill add these tips

http://carclubhunter.org/states/florida-car-clubs.htm

(1) do EXTENSIVE research FIRST, before....... buying parts.... or starting a modification, that INCLUDES making a detailed parts list and researching , the sources, cost, manuals etc. IE FIND OUT whats necessary to do the job, and what results you'll expect before you start

(2) ITS a HUGE advantage to have the correct tools, things like engine cranes, diagnostic test equipment, welders,lifts, etc. may seem like a big expense that's not directly moving your project forward, but there NECESSARY in some cases and ALWAYS make the project go faster and easier than trying to do without them.

(3) work SAFELY, if you could get hurt doing something, chances are very good that you will eventually find out exactly WHY you should have done it the safe rather than the fast/easy way, if you don,t think it thru and use the correct tools and precautions

(4)ITs almost ALWAYS better to have several friends help, on a project, having two or more guys thinking things thru improves your chances of getting it done correctly and safely,and keep in mind ,its always best to do your projects after helping a more experienced guy do something similar on his car so you have some experience doing it, thus be ready and available to help your buddies within their projects and don,t avoid helping so you won,t get dirty, or have some free time that's used on other guys cars vs yours...in the long run it pays big to help others

(5)ask questions and be sure you understand the answers, KNOWING what your doing before you start is a huge advantage

(6)take pictures, label wiring, put small parts in labeled ziploc bags and take notes, use the manuals, and internet, and if something won,t fit or looks wrong research rather than forcing it with a bigger hammer

now I got asked,
"what do you do, who do you call when your about to tackle a job you've never done before?"
now most guys sub out jobs to the dealer or a corvette shop when they get into areas they may not be familiar with,but I do ALL the work on my corvettes for TWO good reasons, first I could NEVER afford the shop rates and I can NEVER trust the quality of work many shops do, now ILL be the VERY FIRST GUY IN LINE to ADMIT Im in WAY over my head at times! but Ive always been able to research the processes, tools, and skills and do the work, or find someone too teach me the skills eventually, you'll NEVER learn new stuff if your not willing to tackle new projects and get in way over your current skill level....besides it USUALLY requires buying LOTS OF new tools and meeting new friends so you can,t hardly lose!

IF you take this advice seriously youll save ALOT of time and money

DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR
buy these books, FIRST it will be the best money you ever spent, read them, and you will be miles ahead of the average guy. youll save thousands of dollars and thousands of hours once youve got a good basic understanding of what your trying to do!

http://www.rehermorrison.com/rmEngineBook.htm

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html

how to assemble an engine basics on video

http://www.racingjunk.com/category

[b]these books will be useful[/b]
http://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Your- ... 1557880298

http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Small-Blo ... 88408995X/

http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Small-Blo ... 95&sr=1-13

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=845&p=1281&hilit=trailer#p1281

HOW TO BUILD MAX PERFORMANCE CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS ON A BUDGET by DAVID VIZARD
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Performance-Blocks-Budget-Design/dp/1884089348/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195231793&sr=1-1

JOHN LINGENFELTER on modifying small-block chevy engines

http://www.amazon.com/John-Lingenfelter-Modifying-Chevy-Engines/dp/155788238X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195231760&sr=1-1


SMOKEY YUNICK,S POWER SECRETS

http://www.amazon.com/Smokey-Yunicks-Power-Secrets-Yunick/dp/0931472067/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195231724&sr=1-1

How to Rebuild Small-Block Chevy Lt1/Lt4 Engines
http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Small-Block-Chevy-Engines-Hp1393/dp/1557883939/ref=pd_sim_b

I constantly see guys who get involved in mods to their cars who either don,t understand that things seldom go as planned or that even understand that even if you know what your doing that the suppliers and machine shops seldom work to your schedule, and guys who buy project cars with zero idea as to the parts they are getting in that car or their condition,or guys who then actually think they can use the car as transportation...yet still race the car on a moments notice

your at a distinct dis-advantage if you have zero idea what components were used in your engine, theres three routes to go,


(1) if it runs good just drive it and don,t worry about it

(2) you can disassemble the engine and carefully identify what you currently have so you know exactly what you have (see#1) and then if you want to make changes you know what needs changing and what you can keep

(3)find or buy a second engine or at least the major components, assemble it with a well thought thru plan, parts list and goal, while you drive the current combo(see#1) and once you have everything assembled with matched components you spend some long weekend swapping engines and drive train components, (this has the huge advantage that you have a fall back option if the new combo doesn,t meet your expectations as you can always return to the current combo in a single week ends work (see#1) yet you can potentially have a far more aggressive engine combo that kicks butt and takes names, and your not screwed for weeks or months at a time if something breaks if you race the car, and can make changes on your serious engine without truly compromising your cars value as transportation, and you can choose to keep or sell the expensive parts separately from or with the car should you ever decide to sell the vette.

Ive always suggested the THIRD option is the best, having at least two engines is the best route if your into tinkering and racing your corvette that's why I currently have six engines I own in the shop, in various con-figs, I can get the vette to perform as I choose simply by taking my time while I build, modify or test drive the corvettes optional engines as I build the test engine and swap it out for a few weeks or months of testing ,I can even rebuild or slightly change the basic transportation engine if I choose too while IM driving one of the other test engines, just remember one engine needs to stay pretty basic and dependable while on the other(S) you can let your imagination and budget run a muck as you see fit

yes theres two basic flaws to that option,
(1) YES ,you need a garage or place to store and work on the spare engine, and it helps tremendously to have a second car, (a small pick-up trucks ideal so you can transport parts to the machine shop easily, and get to work on days when the promised parts don,t arrive or the machine shop doesn,t get the work done as they assured you they would.)

(2)YES it takes a bit more money up front at first, but in the long run its almost always cheaper and easier on your wallet, and the vette spends more time actually in drivable condition rather than down waiting for parts or machine work to be done


learning new skills is a good thing, jump on in!
many new guys are reluctant to even try, the more complicated projects because of a realistic expectation that they may get in over their heads and not be able to get the car running again, Ive seen that reluctance many times.
having access to the internet and buying a shop manual and committing to the process of learning, the basics,buying a few basic tools is a necessary step.
joining at least two different hot rod or corvette clubs will help make the required contacts, in the hobby but you won,t truly learn much until you start offering to help other more experienced members on their projects, you'll learn a great deal helping the more experienced guys do the simple stuff like swapping injectors,or carbs, adjusting, rockers,welding exhaust systems, doing brake jobs, or replacing u-joints or tuning their cars, etc. but you won,t get the chance unless your willing to provide some free labor in most cases.
once you can hook up with a more experienced hot rodder who will act as a mentor you will seldom have major problems.
the question then becomes how to hook up, and where to find a mentor?



http://www.chatmag.com/topics/auto/hotrod.html
http://www.idavette.net/clubs.htm
grumpysperformance.com

I know! you've never done something and your afraid you'll mess it up,
EXAMPLE
the first time I looked over a TPI injection system I was very reluctant to start taking things apart, so as a hedge I took a dozen close up digital photos and labeled every connection with masking tape and a magic marker sharpie pen, I had no idea how the injector connectors were released and didn,t realize there was a spring retainer until Id got four removed, but after about the first dozen, I didn,t even bother looking any longer since things were so familiar.
EXAMPLE
the wife's MERCURY had the power seat control switch in the door go bad, I bought a new one,but I was very reluctant to disassemble the door panel, as I was sure ID screw it up!, but some careful inspection revealed it could easily be accessed and in 10 minutes I was done doing a job ID been hesitant to start for days.
theres a first time for nearly everything and you'll be surprised, in many cases you'll find you enjoy knowing how to do things better.....think back to how clumsy and hesitant you probably felt when you started dating,but learning new skills has its benefits


IF YOUR SMART youll buy parts and get a second engine built on a decent engine stand and assemble your hot rod engine project, taking your time and doing everything correctly rather than constantly pulling apart and mis -matching parts on the c4/lt4, its usually a good idea to have the stock original engine available for transportation as long as possible and available as a quickly swapped in replacement should the modified engine take a crap, or parts need machine work, etc.
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THESE LINKS SHOULD HELP

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11026&p=48766#p48766

http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Small-Block-Chevy-Engines-Hp1393/dp/1557883939/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1325362601&sr=8-16

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=339&p=17657&hilit=started+hobby#p17657

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018&p=14885&hilit=engine+stand#p14885

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11026

ID bet easily 10% of the corvettes ever sold were in some way related to guys building projects where they got in over their heads due to lack of knowledge or they got in temporary trouble financially wise, , many would still be with their previous owners if they could have swapped back the original engine while they worked out the glitches in the performance engine or had a daily driver until finances improved
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: getting started in the car hobby

Postby grumpyvette » April 2nd, 2009, 3:14 pm

HAVING A SHOP MANUAL AND BEING FAMILIAR WITH THE TYPE OF ENGINE YOUR WORKING WITH HELPS
I can,t begin to tell you how many times I see work done that was rather obviously slapped together in the fastest and cheapest manor possible, it seems like if some repair can,t be done with an air ratchet and hammer in under 45 minutes its a project that's best avoided at most dealerships, now the worst stuff Is usually done in areas where its not really obvious, but leaving out or cross threading bolts or stripping threads and then ignoring the damage is common from what Ive seen, failure to firmly click / close electrical connector plugs, or seat modules is almost done like its based on a need of insuring return work in the near future.
now obviously not all dealerships or mechanics do crappy work, but IM amazed at the number of shops that are still in business that do so! or the shops that screw something up royally then with a strait face tell the customer, something like ("during the inspection, or repair process we found some extra problems, there were some stripped bolts, cracked components,or busted parts, that you'll need to replace, so were calling to say it going to cost an extra $300,-$1100, etc.")
at times it so darn obvious that the mechanic screwed up the part it virtually screams (IM AN INCOMPETENT IDIOT) when you look at the results but they still expect you to pay for their mistakes,or mis- diagnoses, a classic example is a buddies 70 GTO, he took it into a shop to get the fuel pump replaced, because it was not pumping fuel, the shop replaced the pump, charged him $300 and the car still would not run, they then suggested a new carb for $875, after the new carb didn,t change a darn thing he called me for advice, I told him Pontiac's were well known for the fuel pump eccentric on the cam coming loose over time, and it results in no fuel pressure, he mentioned that and the (mechanic) told him I was mistaken. well he had the car towed to my shop and he had spent $1175 for a repair on parts and labor
the problem was a loose eccentric and while I was in there I replaced the water pump and timing chain , at napa, for well under $120, he purchased the parts and I charged him $120 for labor, that cured the problem.



KNOWING WHAT YOUR DOING IS IMPORTANT, TO GETTING GOOD RESULTS!
no one knows everything about all models and years so it helps to have the correct procedures and info in a handy referace source,now you can get by with a HAYNES or CHILTONS manual, or something similar, but for detailed info, OWNING the CHEVY SHOP MANUAL FOR YOUR SPECIFIC CAR IS ALMOST MANDATORY!
I get asked frequently, "how did you know how to do that?"
well, EXPERIANCE plays a big roll, working on similar cars and engines helps, and the INTERNET is a good resource... but theres ALWAYS a big need for DETAILED REFERANCE MATERIAL, SPECIFICALLY MATCHING YOUR PARTICULAR CAR and if you have not yet invested in a SHOP MANUAL for the year make and model of you pride and joy muscle car your either not serious about your hobby, or most likely NOT A SERIOUS HOT RODDER! I constantly see guys SCREWING up installations, or adjustments,if you don,t know exactly what your doing, you need to either let the dealer do it and PRAY his mechanics are experianced and can read, OR..if your like ME, you would rather do it yourself and KNOW its been done correctly...
if your not aware, heres where to order them....

1-800-782-4356

http://helminc.com/helm/homepage.asp?r=

your average shop manual may cost $100-$150 ONCE! but youll easily save far more than that in reduced time and screw ups in under a years time or in many cases on one job vs having the dealer do the work!

BTW PONTIAC FUEL PUMPS USUALLY COST UNDER $60

heres the ecentric

Image

heres the bolt that on occasion comes loose

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water pump--underr $50
timing set -UNDER $50
GASKETS $15

http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result.asp?Style=&Mfg=GMC&Make=CHV&Model=CVET&Year=1984&Category=&Keyword=&Module=&mscsid=BJUVXMALDJKB9GQ0THUFJ5LAKTTP9VS4

BUY a SHOP MANUAL, anytime you buy a used car the next purchase needs to be the correct SHOP MANUAL and A V.O.M. METER and it sure won,t hurt to join several online forums and join at LEAST two local car clubs, simply because YOU WILL EVENTUALLY REQUIRE HELP or INFO:thumbsup: :laughing:
if you are a member of at least two local car clubs chances are good that at least one or two members are knowledgeable and helpful

NEVER DIVE HEAD FIRST INTO A PROJECT WITHOUT DOING SOME BASIC RESEARCH ON PARTS AVAILABILITY AND PRODUCT SUPPORT, BUT IF YOUR REALLY DETERMINED ALMOST ANYTHING CAN BE MADE TO WORK IF YOU WANT TO THROW ENOUGH TIME AND MONEY INTO THE PROJECT,WHEN YOU CAN,T DEPEND ON THE CAR TO JUMP INTO IT ANY TIME AND DRIVE IT ON A COAST TO COAST TRIP ITS BASICALLY NOT A STREET CAR, so keep that in mind during the parts selection process if you depend on the car for transportation
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: getting started in the car hobby

Postby grumpyvette » July 19th, 2009, 9:06 am

now the question always comes up as to where you get the cash to finance the hobby, and doing related repairs is a good way to gain experience and get more tools,
finding the cash is a huge problem but in many cases you can build your skills and tool inventory if you let it be known your willing to do what ever odd auto related jobs you know how to do, now that might be brake jobs, or oil changes or water pump replacements etc. the key is to only charge a minimum charge so you get repeat business and to do an excellent job so word gets around your the guy to go to, look you might only be able to charge $8-$10 bucks an hour to change oil and a filter, and inspect or replace fan belts , do tune ups,replace defective hoses,, or replace water pumps etc. (CUSTOMER SUPPLIES ALL PARTS/MATERIALS, and THOSE PARTS MUST BE NEW and YOU WILL SELECT THEM) but if you start sticking that cash in car fund it will add up and you'll stay busy, and you'll gain experience, just be very sure everything your expected to do, the cost of parts and who supplies them is well documented in writing before you start with both parties signing the work agreement.
once word gets around you work reasonably cheap and do a good job the money tends to trickle in. having a welder helps, frequently, to do simple repairs on speed bump damaged oil pans for example
(pull them BEFORE WELDING, and clean and paint them before you re-install them)
replacing a water pump could take 3-4 hours or a full day, but the $40-$90 you charge will be significantly less than a normal repair shop, would, just be very careful about the jobs you accept, so guy with a leaky radiator needs to know the costs of a new radiator and the time it takes before you get involved, you don,t want to have put 4 hours into a job and then have the guy decide it cost to much to repair or that he wants to go else ware for the repair work.
if you can make $40-$90 a day on weekends your hardly going to get rich but you can finance modest projects and build your tool inventory
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: getting started in the car hobby

Postby grumpyvette » December 26th, 2009, 8:29 am

step one when you buy a corvette, or any new performance car is to buy the correct matching factory shop manual
and look around carefully at how, expensive and hard it will be to locate replacement body parts, drive train and other components, you may eventually NEED
next step is looking up and joining the local hot rod or corvette club, but be prepared to find not all members helpful or knowledgeable, its similar to joining a local corvette club from what Ive seen, about 60% of the members like drinking, club cruises, waxing cars and b.s. etc, and don,t know how to do more than oil changes if that, about 20%-40% do occasionally do minor work on their own cars, and about 10%-20% actually help other members, and do major repairs ,you just need to find the 10% hard core that are willing to get greasy that have skills and get in with that rather limited crowd


Image
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it may not have all the answers but its a great place to start looking because once you have a shop manual, youve got at least some reliable info and usually some diagrams
next youll need a timing light, vacuum gauge and a V.O.M. meter
and a code reader sure will help
for example,
ILL assume its a 1992 corvette here, but some time with the sites search feature will provide you with similar info on many cars

http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.as ... itemtype=B

heres a few threads to get you started

step TWO
and in the ideal world this is done BEFORE you buy the car
youll want to put the car up on a lift and carefully inspect for oil leaks, brakes and suspension condition, your cars frame condition, rust, and badly done repairs

STEP THREE
find and join a local hot rod or corvette club, and yes IM aware that 70% of the members are likely to be less than helpful, or annoying morons, but theres usually a significant number of helpful and knowledgeable guys that will prove very useful, if you start offering to help them on their projects because they have the skills , experience and machine shop and parts source contacts you need on your projects

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=168

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=875

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=270

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=202

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=296

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1241&p=6060&hilit=obd+I+scanner#p6060

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=117

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=728

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=5180

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=882

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=1957

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=1470

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=1430

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=2019

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=380&p=1695&hilit=bleeding#p1695

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=469&p=6061&hilit=+6000+scanner#p6061

I frequently have talked to guys who purchased a older corvette or muscle car that was someone elses project car, who after working on the car either express a common thought that the previous owner(S) were total incompetent morons, or "back yard bubba" mechanics at best!
they can,t figure out why the car won,t run correctly or how the previous owner has connected or wired up many components and after a few weeks they start talking about passing on their previous (SCORE) to the next (SUCKER).
they get frustrated, and basically can,t figure out why something won,t work, well I hate to point this out but in most cases when your working on a 10-50 year old car thats had SEVERAL previous owners your almost certainly going to be starting from a car in that condition, RELAX while its almost a given you'll get frustrated at times its also almost 100% certain that if you look at each individual system, or component in each system and find out what its does and how its supposed to work, and find out how to test that component or system, you can get it functioning as it was designed to work OR better, yes it takes some research, some test tools and a factory shop manual is almost MANDATORY
many guys get totally confused of upset chasing cooling issues or the EFI (electronic fuel injection) or oil pressure, or have problems with valve train clearance , or geometry in the the engine because of what the previous owner did, or simple stuff like fixing oil leaks, or even vibrations become a problem!
Well its all common and the basic truth is its part of the hobby, so if your not into resolving problems your 100% sure to get a bit crazy, dealing with things you didn,t cause and have a bit of difficulty correcting theres NOTHING on a corvette or muscle car that time, research, some basic testing and a few basic tools in the hands of a persistent mechanically inclined installer/mechanic or average hot rodder, that can,t be corrected, adjusted or replaced if necessary

sure its frustrating when the car won,t run correctly and your not sure if its ignition, related, low or no fuel, carb, tuning, injectors, faulty sensors incorrect valve timing, compression, or maybe a clogged catalytic converter, or a bad ground or faulty electrical wiring or a vacuum leak, etc..........but if you RELAX, and take each potential area of engine operation individually and verify its correct function before moving to the next set of tests and verify each step in the process and take a few notes you'll find the cause and the cure, it just takes time testing and research, you'll generally start with taking a compression test, reading the spark plugs setting the ignition timing, checking voltages and fuel flow and pressure, you'll want to check trouble codes and verify the valves are adjusted correctly, the carb or injectors function etc. but taken a step at a time it won,t be nearly as overwhelming and its just a logical process, sure you'll need a few meters, tools and gauges, but theres NOTHING that's BEYOND most guys ability's, and once you find the cause of your problems in many cases you'll be amazed at how small things like faulty sensors or vacuum leaks or badly adjusted components can cause you so much grief, or how easy that was to correct ONCE you found the cause


hot rodding should really be called... the art of isolating , testing and repairing or improving the function or automotive related components, in a logical , well thought thru process designed to make your blood pressure go up and give you sudden urges cuss and to throw tools

shop manuals, if you can get one do so
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2701

trouble codes, if your cars modern enough to be computer equipped these HELP at times
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2697

sensors and locations
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1401

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=168

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=596

tuning & adjusting

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=773

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1246

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=196

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=2746

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=202

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=875

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=967

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=986
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Posts: 14105
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Re: getting started in the car hobby

Postby grumpyvette » November 5th, 2011, 7:26 am

Let me give you a bit of hard won wisdom that took me decades to fully understand,... if your ever going to build a well thought thru car & engine combo youll be happy with its takes planing and a consistent effort and sustained budget allocation to completing the project and you need both the tools and a place to work, you need to do the research and NOT change goals every few weeks or buy random BARGAIN parts

yes it may take you several days to read thru the links and many sub links, it will save you hundreds of dollars and months of work so take the time!


(1) decide on exactly what you want when your finished and think thru a reasonable budget and time frame
this means if you really want a big block corvette don,t waste time and money building a 350 sbc in a caprice just because its available and cheap.

(2) have a place to work and get a decent engine stand to work on,you don,t need much more than a small tool selection and space for an engine stand with an engine on it and a plastic tarp , many tools can be rented or borrowed, but you do need to do the required research and buy and correctly assemble the correct matched parts
(you can always sell it when your done if this was a one time project)

(3) have a second transportation vehicle or build your performance engine slowly over time correctly,and separately is by far the better route here!
constant minor changes and parts up grades resulting in miss matched components to the primary transportation vehicle ALWAYS eventually causes you problems


(4) don,t buy parts that don,t match your goal just because you get a SCREAMING DEAL on the parts PRICE,...ESPECIALLY USED PARTS

(5) don,t forget the IMPROVED , BRAKES, DRIVE TRAIN GEARING, SUSPENSION,TIRES AND COOLING SYSTEM, ELECTRICAL AND LUBRICATION UPGRADES THAT WILL BE REQUIRED BEFORE you install the new high performance engine your building


viewtopic.php?f=44&t=38

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5078

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/engine ... ewall.html

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... index.html

http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... /A9-P1.htm

your budget and skill level will have a great deal to do with your choices and what you should realistically look into building, a supercharged 383-396-406-427 small block or the newer LS engines series is an option of course and if you have deep pockets, you can just buy a assembled crate engine

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... rsal.shtml

http://www.ultrastreet.net/engines/427_realstreet.asp


or if your into killer big blocks
http://www.ultrastreet.net/engines/598_ ... owdeck.asp

http://ohiocrank.com/enginespage1.html

http://www.dougherbert.com/crate-engine ... -1-2a.html



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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: getting started in the car hobby

Postby bob » November 6th, 2011, 4:58 pm

One thing that always makes me a bit crazy is that every time I do the research and decide on exactly what parts I need, I print out a list with part numbers and costs listed and just about the time I'm ready to buy the parts I find an article that is announcing some brand new cylinder head or intake manifold, block or other major component that makes the older parts seem like a waste of cash
if you decide you want vortec heads, that flow 240cfm, you read about the 210cc air flow research heads that make the vortec heads look pathetic, that flow 310cfm,if you decide to buy the AFR 210cc , you'll find that PROFILER or BRODIX makes a cylinder head that makes that head look anemic, heads that flow 320 cfm then theres 18 degree heads that flow 370cfm, so now your convinced to buy the 18 degree heads,until you find out about DARTS 9 degree heads that flow 415 cfm...it never ends and the cost increases pretty much duplicate the flow rate increases

http://www.cartechbooks.com/vstore/show ... pter=10324

http://www.trickflow.com/articles/18degree_hp/

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... ewall.html
bob

 

Re: getting started in the car hobby

Postby grumpyvette » March 27th, 2012, 7:48 am

Id bet 70% or more of the guys selecting performance cams for the first engine combo they build ,do so a bit like one of my friends (larry) always did in the 1960s, he would call ISKY, CRANE and CROWER get the tech guys to tell him the cam specs from each manufacturer after telling them about his car and then select the cam with the most duration and lift after comparing the cams from each manufacturer, that would have been BAD ENOUGH, but he also tended to tell the tech guys he had expensive aftermarket components he read about in magazine articles that he "INTENDED TO BUY LATER" not what he truly had on hand currently, the result was that I gained a great deal of experience learning about correcting valve train problems when either parts failed or the car ran like crap!
the truth is that the vast majority of guys select a performance cam for the 5% of the time they may race the car rather than the 95% of the time they spend driving the car, then wonder why it never seems to run correctly

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if you post all the info about your engine and drive train I can help you a good deal, Id also suggest checking with several cam manufacturers and reading the links, where most guys go wrong is that they assume that if a certain cam ran reasonably well in some magazine article or in a friends car that that same cam will run great in their engine, the fact that the compression, displacement, intake, carb ,head flow, exhaust back pressure , the cars weight, rear gear, converter,stall speed, fuel octane, valve spring clearance, valve spring load rates, rocker ratio, and port cross sectional area, etc. are all wildly different never enters the discussion.
hanging out with LARRY described in the links when I was younger proved to be very educational, LARRY made dozens of serious mistakes, in fact it got to the point I discuss intended mods with larry and if he seemed rather enthusiastic about the mod I knew it was a huge RED FLAG, indicating a good deal more research was mandatory
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: getting started in the car hobby

Postby grumpyvette » April 6th, 2012, 2:03 pm

If your just getting started in the hot rod hobby don,t jump in without thinking thru your options, chevy, mopar,ford, pontiac,buick, caddy all made good engines, and while its very true that chevy parts tend to cost a bit less on average there are many good parts available for the others so look around, and don,t just assume you want to build a small block chevy, theres also the big block, the LS series and a dozen other choices.
now your bound to have some guy tell you the chevy sb engines lighter weight and cheaper to build, and while that might be true in many cases, but a good deal depends on your budget and access to parts, if your starting from scratch and can locate a 500 caddy or 440 mopar engine at a good price, that might be a better choice
guys will tell you a big block engines heavier and thats true, but the extra displacement has advantages, that test has been done several times and the results tend to favor the BIG BLOCK, even thou in theory the sbc weights less the fact is that the better head flow and torque curve the big block produced usually resulted in the big block combo being faster
that extra 120 lbs the big block weights looks significant until you realize that the 120lb difference in your average 3400lb car is about a 3% change.
Id also point out that up to about 450hp the small blocks generally cheaper to build and above about 600hp there little question that the big block tends to be more durable, but theres a third option, the newer LS series potentially allows you to make 500plus or so hp cheaper that either of the previous engines, provided you can get a good salvage yard donor engine at a good price.
the engine you select should depend on your true goals and budget, don,t get locked into thinking you musty build a sbc, that tunnel vision can cost you, I recently assembled a 440 mopar for a guy, it was a budget build using almost all stock components, he had a goal of 400 hp, we easily made a bit more and it cost him less than $3500 to do it as he found a 1970s motor home in some guys yard,with a good 440 motor for sale that had a bad transmission and a crappy body for under $500, so he got a 440 mopar and a dana 60 rear for $500

most American V8 engines can make 1.2 -1.4 horsepower per cubic inch with the correct parts
think about that a 350 SBC stroked to 383 can easily make 460 hp, but stroke a 454 to 496 which is not all that difficult and 600 hp is easily reached

do some research, look around the site, theres a ton of useful info.
spending a couple days reading links and sub links could save you over a $3000 and a couple months work

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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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a lack of necessary tools, work space and/or time

Postby grumpyvette » November 23rd, 2012, 8:06 pm

" GRUMPY!
I,ve seen you suggest many times that people just dive in and work on their cars, I don't think it's that people don't realize the can make/modify parts to fit, or repair their cars if they get the skills and tools, It's more a lack of necessary tools, work space and/or time.



yes I know several people that just don,t want to either get involved or lack the tools ,and skills or desire to learn those skills, or acquire the required tools. yes I know several people that just write a check and have someone else do all the work on their car, I wish I had the option to do the same thing at times but most of the time even if I had bill gates checking account, Id want to be doing much of the work and having the knowledge to do that work.
now from my point of view a great deal of the satisfaction I get from owning and driving a performance car, is in knowing I built or can repair or modify most of the components that make it work, and if I don,t have the required tools or skills I make it a priority to acquire them.
yes I freely admit Ive spent much more on tools, my shop and gaining those skills and tools and that shop than it would have cost to have someone else build me the car Im still working on, but owning a car that someone else builds rather pointless in my opinion, anyone with a big bank balance could do that.
having someone else do the works a bit like watching PORN, you still appreciate whats going on but you would sure appreciate it more if YOU got to experience the job, "hands on" with you being involved with the process, rather than just watching whats being done!


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IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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