darn I hate chasing electrical glitches, in newer cars



darn I hate chasing electrical glitches, in newer cars

Postby grumpyvette » September 22nd, 2011, 5:32 pm

on my old 1965 Pontiac I had the head lights stop working, a quick check with a multi meter showed it was a blown fuse, the fuse blew due to high resistance, traced to a badly rusted connector that was easily replaced.
well I just have an intermittent problem on my 2003 mercury with the head lights, the switch tests fine as do the lights themselves, I pull out the shop manual and find theres a light sensor, a light control modual and several relays and switches, obviously designed by a guy intent on retiring on the profits, from repair work and repair parts, because theres almost no way to diagnose the problem easily, so its not nearly as simple as chasing simple electrical voltage flow.
as most of us who work on cars know chasing minor electrical glitches is a P.I.T.A. and it helps a good deal to have at least a minimal quality multi meter and test leads, and a scan tool, that can be used to, locate isolate and test THRU insulation on wires, and a tool to pull trouble codes and do minimal programing.

http://www.lectriclimited.com/frequentl ... ns.htm#A01

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http://www.amazon.com/AutoXray-6000-EZ- ... cr_pr_pb_t

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http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/usen/Digital ... ?PID=55990



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http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-dig ... 98674.html
having a wide assortment of different multi meter test leads available is a huge benefit while testing
the clip test leads that test thru a wires insulation without much damage are a big help


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http://www.harborfreight.com/ac-dc-digi ... 37772.html

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http://www.harborfreight.com/lcd-automo ... 95670.html

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http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function ... 90899.html

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/default.aspx
these are WORTHLESS in my opinion, they seldom work or work long, or give consistent info
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: darn I hate chasing electrical glitches, in newer cars

Postby grumpyvette » November 28th, 2011, 10:39 am

my wifes got a mercury that has had an intermittent issue with both the head lights going out at times while driving at night,
I found the problem to be a defective relay within the lighting control module. My local mercury dealer will replace the module for about $900.00, the price of the lighting modual is $495, the cost is to first diagnose then replace, then program the module and install it. The defective component part can be obtained from Mouser Electronics online for under $6.00. If you can solder it is a simple task, just locate the module which is found mounted under the lower dashboard to the passenger side of the steering column. Three plugs must be removed after you slide it out of the mounting tray. Open it up and you find four identical relays. The headlight relay is on the side opposite the long heat sink and nearest the vehicle connectors. OEM p/n NEC EQ1-11111S. There is another post here with great photos which guided me. Look for discoloration on the PC board from the heat generated by the arcing contacts.
Good luck.
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relay
http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-RLS125-1 ... 436&sr=1-1
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socket
http://www.amazon.com/12-VDC-5-PIN-RELA ... gy_e_img_b


solder gun
http://www.amazon.com/Wall-Lenk-WG991KC ... -2-catcorr
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solder
http://www.amazon.com/Mobilespec-Rosin- ... 44&sr=1-10

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flux
http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-9-1309-Pas ... 899&sr=1-1

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbt ... er=2159211

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbt ... er=2159211

BTW I followed the directions (LINK above) to fix my wifes mercury light problem and the parts cost me $14 on amazon.com and it took about 1hour vs the $900 the dealership wanted for the parts and labor


btw the most common electrically related problem I see on a consistent basis is corroded or badly rusted or defective battery connections and grounds so before you go crazy its a good idea to replace those as a first step in any electrical problem diagnoses

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http://www.harborfreight.com/120-piece- ... 67530.html

yes they always seem to assume that everyone has unlimited access to both tools and every possible part and location on a corvette, youll need a good multi meter AND an assortment of test leads and it helps a great deal to have visited a salvage yard and grabbed a bunch of electrical connectors to use when making test lead connections, or they can be purchased as replacement parts

the search feature, is always an option here, on this site, but to save time , look at the sub links in these threads, to find sources for replacement electrical connectors, and NAPA can frequently ORDER replacement connectors for repairs at about 3- 5 times the cost youll find them at else ware, but at times getting the part the next day beats waiting a week so the price may be justified. if its a connector thats likely to break frequently buy extras, and have them handy

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3105&p=8272&hilit=connectors+pigtails#p8272

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=168&p=41767&hilit=connectors+pigtails#p41767

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=728&p=43477&hilit=electrical+connector#p43477

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-dig ... 98674.html
having a wide assortment of different multi meter test leads available is a huge benefit while testing
the clip test leads that test thru a wires insulation without much damage are a big help


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NOW IF YOURE JUST LOOKING FOR A INTERMITTENT PROBLEM WITH YOUR CORVETTE THIS MAY HELP
theres several obvious and a couple less obvious things to check,start by pulling trouble codes, checking for loose electrical connections and vacuum lines.
Id start with checking the injector resistance and verify pulse with NOID LIGHTS , check the fuel rail pressure and ignition timing and advance, , ALL SHOULD BE OBVIOUS PLACES THAT COULD CAUSE PROBLEMS , loose electrical connections and grounds are always suspect, the most common cause I find for the lag,well (after verifying its not injector or fuel pressure or OXYGEN SENSOR RELATED or ignition , or knock sensor related,problem )obviously those should be checked , is problems related too the manifold and engine and air heat sensors, those sensors seem to be able to function well enough not to throw trouble codes but not always well enough to allow the engine to run perfectly

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THESE THREADS AND SUB LINKS MAY HELP
grab a multi meter and check the sensor resistance and for a good electrical connection


viewtopic.php?f=80&t=728&p=43477&hilit=camaro+sensors#p43477

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=9478&p=34812&hilit=grounds#p34812

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=9778&p=36976&hilit=camaro+sensors#p36976

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2697

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=596

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10349

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2697&p=29270&hilit=vacuum+lines#p29270

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=758&p=1087&hilit=opti+crap#p1087

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=520&p=645&hilit=vats+resistor#p645

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1401

Re: C4 sensor and relay/switch locations and info


http://www.corvettebuyers.com/c4vettes/ ... mation.htm
EMISSION COMPONENT LOCATIONS
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Measured Value
Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor. 185 Ohms @ 210F, 3400 Ohms @ 68F, 7,500 Ohms @ 39 F.
Engine Oil Temperature Sensor. 185 Ohms @ 210 F, 3400 Ohms @ 68 F, 7,500 Ohms @39 F.
Oil Pressure Sender/Switch. 1 Ohms @ 0 PSI, 43 Ohms @ 30 PSI, 86 Ohms @ 60 PSI.
Fuel Quantity Sender. 0 Ohms @ Empty, 45 Ohms @ 1/2 Full, 90 Ohms @ Full.
MAT (Manifold Absolute Temperature Sensor). 185 Ohms @ 210 F, 3400 Ohms @ 70 F, 15,000 Ohms @ 40 F.
Outside Temperature Sensor. 4400 Ohms @ 60 F, 2200 Ohms @ 85 F.
In Car Temp Temperature Sensor. 4400 Ohms @ 60 F, 2200 Ohms @ 85 F.
MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor. .4 Volts @ idle, 5 Volts @ Full Throttle.
Oxygen (O2) Sensor. .1 Volt Lean Mixture, .9 Volt Rich Mixture.
TPS (Throttle Position Sensor). .54 Volts Idle, ~ 5 Volts Full Throttle.

Sensor Locations

Sensor


Location
Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor. Front of engine, below Throttle Body.
Engine Oil Temperature Sensor. Left rear of engine, just above the oil filter.
Oil Pressure Sender/Switch. Top, left hand rear of engine.
Fuel Quantity Sender. Top of fuel tank, beneath filler pipe escutcheon panel.
MAT (Manifold Absolute Temperature Sensor). Underside of manifold air plenum at rear.
Outside Temperature Sensor. Right side of engine, top right corner of radiator.
In Car Temp Temperature Sensor. Coupe: above left seat near interior courtesy light, Convertible: center of cargo compartment lid.
MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor. Front of engine ahead of throttle body.
Oxygen (O2) Sensor. Left side of engine, in exhaust pipe.
TPS (Throttle Position Sensor). Right side of throttle body at the front.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: darn I hate chasing electrical glitches, in newer cars

Postby mathd » November 28th, 2011, 4:54 pm

A good soldering iron is the key.
They first used the underpowered wireless ones..
Advice there.. buy at least a 45watt minimum for soldering iron.. Otherwise it take too long to heat the join and that heat the component around too much.. If you work with transistor/semiconductors they will burn rendering the parts good for replacement.

Thats even more true for automotive use since the cable are usually of heavy gauge, so a good soldering iron is required.
Mathieu
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Re: darn I hate chasing electrical glitches, in newer cars

Postby grumpyvette » December 29th, 2011, 2:48 pm

standard EIA wiring code color codes

black.............................................................ground
black/white..............................................amp-ground
red........................................ignition switched 12volt+
blue...........................power/amplified antenna 12volt +
blue/white......................amp remote switched 12volt +
yellow.......................battery /memory/constant 12volt
orange.....................................................illumination
orange/white ......................................dimmer switch
green................................... ...........left rear 12volt +
green/black...................................left rear 12volt -neg
white..............................................left front 12volt +
white/black.....................................left front 12volt-neg
purple......................................right rear positive 12 volt
purple/black......................................right rear neg 12 volt
grey.......................................right front positive 12 volt
grey/black...............................right front negative 12 volt
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: darn I hate chasing electrical glitches, in newer cars

Postby grumpyvette » June 28th, 2014, 9:22 am

intermittent electrical problems like a rare no start occasionally,or windshield wiper controls or blinker lights not shutting off, or turning on, are frequently traced to a bad electrical ground connection,or corrosion on electrical harness plug connectors, vibration, moisture and other factors can effect the electrical resistance measurably , and ohms setting on a multi meter, a shop manual and checking all the grounds with the meter may prove to be worth the time.
heat can also have a big effect on electrical connections and some sub components like ignition moduals, so if you find some factor in common with the problem showing up, like rainy days or very hot dry days it may be an indicator helping you locate the source.

solomonhorses wrote:How to perfectly clean wires in minutes!!!
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to- ... n-minutes/
Picture of How to perfectly clean wires in minutes!!!
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Here is an old ham radio operators trick for cleaning wires for soldering that are old and corroded. It is hard to find this technique printed anywhere! I am a ham, NH7ZE, and learned it from my elmer (mentor). I am passing it on. I hope it helps people who need to clean wires:P Please vote!!!

Normally, if you strip a wire, and see it is corroded, there is not much you can do to restore it's shiny new conductive properties. There is scraping and scratching which comes to mind, but you'll never get it to the solderable slickness it once was long ago. After laboring and fretting over the corroded pieces of wire for a long, long time, you see that your sweat coming out of your palms and fingers are corroding the copper AGAIN!!!! Oh, dear. NOT TO WORRY!!!!! Give yourself a pat on the back, because what you will pull out of your bag of tricks now, will send all the corroded copper wires scurrying and scampering away in fear!!!! Here is how to clean any corroded wire without even touching it, in 30 seconds!! And what's more, you can even solder it!!!

This process uses two solutions, one is regular table salt and vinegar. Any kind of vinegar will work, from balsamic, to rice, to white vinegars. Its the acidity and corrosiveness of the salt and vinegar together that you want. The other solution is Sodium Bicarbonate, or baking soda, and water. This is used to neutralize the corrosive properties of the other solution, and to further clean the wires.

Step 1: Strip the wires to be cleaned.

Step 2: Get 2 containers, one for each solution. They can be paper cups, plastic, glass, bowls, whatever you can find. I have vials, because I am a professional electronics installer and I use these solutions out in the field.

Step 3: Get 1 tablespoon of raw salt, and put it in one of the containers. Fill up the rest of the container with vinegar, and stir the both together. As a general rule of thumb, put as much salt in the vinegar as will dissolve.

Step 4: Get 1 tablespoon of Sodium Bicarbonate, (baking soda) and add it to the other container. Fill up the rest with water, and stir well. Add more baking soda to make it cloudy. The amount is not important, as long as it is alkaline to cancel the acid of the vinegar solution.

Step 5: Put the stripped end of the wire in the vinegar solution, and stir the solution with the wire. any wire you want cleaned needs to be under the solution. Movement of the wire in the liquid speeds up the process.

Step 6: After 2 minutes or so, the wire will look very shiny and new in the vinegar solution. The acid and salt in the solution is etching away the oxides, exposing the bare metal. Make sure the metal is uniformly shiny. Leave it in longer if it is not perfectly clean throughout.

Step 7: Once the wire is satisfactorily clean, remove the wire from the vinegar, and plunge it into the baking soda solution to neutralize the acid's corrosive properties. If the wire was exposed to the air, without neutralizing the acid first, it would quickly corrode again. The baking soda keeps it clean and shiny. Swish the wire around in the baking soda water for about 10 seconds, and then you are done!! Shiny new wire ready for soldering, and conducting once again!!

Please vote on this instructable!!
Thanks for reading.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: darn I hate chasing electrical glitches, in newer cars

Postby philly » June 28th, 2014, 10:32 am

intermitten problems are a bitch, grumpy. thats why its very important to have factory service manuals for all the vehicles you own / work on or have access to them. once you have access and knowledge to the ENTIRE system you are working on (in the case of the grand marquis you found out its a highly involved system that controls headlight function ) you can systematically rule out all of the components individually using your common multimeter and or test light. the process is the same, and without the basic skills you use on your GTO you would never be able to figure out your mercury... its just more involved and time consuming.
-phil

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