your basic performance concepts



your basic performance concepts

Postby grumpyvette » September 13th, 2013, 1:34 pm

related threads

this whole hobby at its roots is based on or at least used to be based on, the concept of modifying an existing car to improve its looks and/or performance, in many cases that was or at least commonly involved increased horse power,or lower our cars weight,because bigger engines, bigger brakes, improved handling, and a higher power to weight ratio, made the cars more fun to drive. but certainly not limited to those changes alone.
now when I started out in this hobby darn near every young adult male dreamed of owning a muscle car that both sounded and looked impressive and yeah! just like today most of us had very limited finances so we quickly found the new cars were far too expensive but an alternative was to hit the salvage yards and carefully do the required research to find out a combo that allowed us to find a fairly light weight car we could mate to a larger than average engine, and we found reducing weight and adding larger brakes and stronger drive train components from the larger cars in the lighter weight body styles held advantages.
we found that if you got an engine like a 440 mopar or 428 pontiac, 455 buick or 427 chevy from an older car in a salvage yard and rebuilt it along with as much of the larger cars drive train as we could afford or modify to fit in something like a lighter car like a camaro, buick special,dodge dart, ford falcon,or maverick or chevy vega, or similar economy car, with its much lighter weight body, the faster we could build are cars,power to weight ratios and cost were the main limitation,s , and it took time to perfect our skills, it also became obvious that each guys experience varied and none of us knew enough to build a car without friends helping out, so car clubs developed that allowed guys with similar interests to easily share knowledge, skills and more easily learn how to repair cars using the collective experience of the group. but we also found that we needed to fabricate adapters, modify and strengthen frames and suspensions and learn , to repair and adapt the parts we could find to work in each custom application.
MOST OF US HAD OLDER MORE EXPERIENCED FRIENDS THAT HAD purchased or BUILT CARS THAT IMPRESSED US, MOST OF US WERE EAGER TO LEARN NEW SKILLS.
Most of us were forced to work on very limited budgets yet we found that if we were creative we could build cars that we were proud to own, and cars that were as fast or faster than the average cars to be bought off the local dealer shop show room floor, and resulted in what some people might think were rather odd combos, like a 500 caddy engine in a dodge dart or 454 chevy in a buick skylark.


theres a ton of related info in the links and sub-links
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=2900

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=5363&p=16054&hilit=2800+lbs#p16054

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5078&p=14433&hilit=2800+lbs#p14433

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3899&p=11094&hilit=2800+lbs#p11094

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=3404&p=8992&hilit=2800+lbs#p8992

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=2709&p=8169&hilit=2800+lbs#p8169

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=783&p=1977&hilit=2800+lbs#p1977

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=9612&p=35603&hilit=getting+started+hobby#p35603

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=3733&p=30179&hilit=getting+started+hobby#p30179

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=5053&p=28837&hilit=getting+started+hobby#p28837

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=7722&p=26314&hilit=getting+started+hobby#p26314

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=339&p=21733&hilit=getting+started+hobby#p21733

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=5976&p=18464&hilit=getting+started+hobby#p18464

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=4687&p=12679&hilit=getting+started+hobby#p12679

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=4523&p=11968&hilit=getting+started+hobby#p11968

viewtopic.php?f=67&t=1073&p=2059&hilit=getting+started+hobby#p2059

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=644&p=865&hilit=getting+started+hobby#p865

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=775&p=8401&hilit=machine+shop+hobby#p8401

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=321&p=2933&hilit=machine+shop+hobby#p2933
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: your basic performance concepts

Postby grumpyvette » October 25th, 2013, 11:07 am

http://www.carcraft.com/projectbuild/11 ... ratio.html
Gears, Mph, And Tire Height
After you've figured out how fast you want to go, you need to find the weight of the car and determine how much horsepower you'll need to accomplish your goal. The formula to estimate amount of horsepower for a terminal mph in the quarter-mile is: hp = (mph / 234)3 x weight. As an example, if your car weighs 3,000 pounds, you'll need about 500 hp to run 130 mph, and if your car weighs 4,000 pounds, you'll need about 685. This is simply a power-to-weight calculation, and experience has shown us it is a little conservative, much depends on the engines torque potential. There are a lot more factors involved in goin' fast, but this is a good place to start, and it shows why weighing less is better.

The next thing you need to do is find out where your engine will make peak horsepower and pick a rear gear that will put the engine at about 200 rpm above that number going through the traps in High gear. Here is the math: gear ratio = (rpm x tire diameter) / (mph x 336). This is closely tied to the size of the tire you are going to run, so before picking a rear gear ratio, find the largest tires that will fit under the rear. You should also note that an automatic transmission in High gear will exhibit about 5 percent slippage, so you will need to add that to equation.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: your basic performance concepts

Postby 87vette81big » March 4th, 2014, 11:54 am

:mrgreen:
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Re: your basic performance concepts

Postby grumpyvette » June 14th, 2014, 8:21 am

I constantly get asked about what components to buy and both rotating assembly's and cylinder heads are almost always high on the list of components being asked about, the fact is we all are forced to work on limited budgets some are FAR more limited than others of course! but the cylinder heads you select are one of THE KEY COMPONENTS in any build
heres an engine build thread from start to finish, with almost every question you might have being discussed in the thread or links in detail

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814


RELATED THREADS, with a good deal more info as usual a couple hours reading links and sub links now could save you hundreds of dollars and weeks of wasted effort or regret later, CYLINDER HEADS ARE KEY TO A GOOD BUILD

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=534&p=41292#p41292

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=796

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=462&hilit=porting+help

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=8460&p=32631&hilit=porting+help#p32631

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8485&p=29767&hilit=porting+help#p29767

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=8596&p=30222&hilit=porting+help#p30222

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5078

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5364&p=16066&hilit=cylinder+head+flow+chart#p16066

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=519&p=9354&hilit=cylinder+head+flow+chart#p9354

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=333&p=37693&hilit=cylinder+head+flow+chart#p37693

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=8460&p=32923&hilit=cylinder+head+flow+chart#p32923

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8485&p=29767&hilit=cylinder+head+flow+chart#p29767

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=624&p=11125&hilit=cylinder+head+flow+chart#p11125


yeah! some of you would rather be skinned alive and rolled and salt and alcohol than open and read links, well for those that are willing to suffer thru reading , your going to save a ton of cash and money avoiding the mistakes Ive seen made or made personally and gain from decades of engine builds and racing experience, yes reading may be painful, but it beats pissing cash down a rat hole buying parts that won,t work correctly
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: your basic performance concepts

Postby grumpyvette » June 15th, 2014, 9:08 am

grumpyvette wrote:I mostly build big blocks for muscle cars but theres been numerous 383-406 sbc combo built along the way, for street transportation, I generally suggest you build a 383 with a mild cam having about 208 -212 intake duration @ .050 lift and a 9.5:1 compression and something like 3.07 rear gears ,and match it to a over drive transmission like a 700r4 or 200r4 and have a tach installed and keep the rpms well below 2000rpms if maximizing mileage is your prime concern.
obviously thats not going to be the best potential combo for smoking tires or impressing your buddies with impressive low E.T. times. but you do see an increase in power thats quite useful while cruising on the highway or passing speeds with that type of combo.
on most early flat tappet TPI corvettes ,I suggest you build a 838 as the parts are common and cost is reasonably low, your correct that a 383 correctly built with a cam and compression like that will easily produce 370 plus hp and well over 430 ft lbs of torque , which easily exceeds the average results you see with a 350.this crane cam with 1.6:1 roller rockers , on almost any decent 180-200cc aftermarket aluminum heads like TRICK FLOW 195cc,EDELBROCK vic,OR BRODIX IK200 as the combo really wakes up a basic 383
http://crane.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/15916/114132

http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/1021006/10002/-1?parentProductId=760699#moreDetails

http://www.jegs.com/i/Harland+Sharp/851/1002/10002/-1

but that is still less that the 383 full potential



Dan85Vette wrote:

Couldn't be more happy with that crane cam in my 383. It's got a great lopey idle to it, performs fantastic and kept things mild for driveability and mpgs


blueday wrote:Just to note, I've had the ik200s for about 6 years now and theyve been a great set of heads for the money.
Im running a 383 with around 10.4:1 cr, ik200 aluminum heads, comp xtreme energy 284/296 .507/.510" cam, and comp 1.6 roller rockers w/edelbrock rpm intake and 3k stall. This is such a great little combo, not so great on gas but I attribute that to the th350 with 3.55 gears and just like mentioned above........my foot is always to the floor! I didn't build it for a DD to get good gas mileage


what many people simply ignore or purposefully overlook is that it is almost never the peak power numbers that almost everyone seems to dwell on that are important in choosing the correct cam.
matching the power curve to the cars gearing and its TRUE use is FAR MORE important.
most guys seem to concentrate on the .01 percent of the time, they spend at a local track,looking for bragging rights, and ignore the 99.99% of the time they spend driving the car on the paved roads, in traffic or used as transportation, and the fact that they must have dependability and at least semi decent drive-ability.
I build several engines, a year and have for decades,I used to do it as a semi serious side job for years, and built a good local reputation, thats easily close to 150 plus, in the last 45 years, you tend to learn what works and what to avoid rather quickly doing things like that

HELPFUL LINKS
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5078

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=741

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=82

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: your basic performance concepts

Postby philly » June 15th, 2014, 10:18 pm

i just started reading some books by vizard this week, and thanks to grumpy i recognized alot of the concepts and the visual aids in the books, and i can honestly say the more that i know, the more i realize i didnt know shit. haha :lol:
-phil

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Re: your basic performance concepts

Postby JackLee » January 20th, 2015, 10:03 pm

In my opinion, performance means fast, stable, safe.
High performance Turbocharger is the best way to improve car speed.
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Re: your basic performance concepts

Postby grumpyvette » January 21st, 2015, 8:35 am

JackLee wrote:In my opinion, performance means fast, stable, safe.


yes those are valued factors in any properly built car, and I see far too many younger guys who seem to concentrate almost exclusively on trying to increase the cars power, with darn few worrying about the nearly mandatory addition of related parts that are then needed like, larger and better brakes, more efficient cooling, and lubrication, better lighting or more robust drive train and suspension components.


as most of the older members have probably realized by now MY long term goal is to install a serious BBC engine and a 4l80e trans and DANA rear in my corvette, I have several related threads, and Ive always been rather surprised that while I get lots of related questions , darn few involve brakes, cooling etc.


viewtopic.php?f=46&t=373&p=46541&hilit=handling#p46541

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=13

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=151

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3954

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=5579&p=45120&hilit=4l80e+manual#p45120
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: your basic performance concepts

Postby Strictly Attitude » January 21st, 2015, 8:41 am

grumpyvette wrote:
JackLee wrote:In my opinion, performance means fast, stable, safe.


yes those are valued factors in any properly built car, and I see far too many younger guys who seem to concentrate almost exclusively on trying to increase the cars power, with darn few worrying about the nearly mandatory addition of related parts that are then needed like, larger and better brakes, more efficient cooling, and lubrication, better lighting or more robust drive train and suspension components.

I like reliable also. Those are the things that make that happen.
"IF YOU CAN SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!"

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Денежная сенсация- заработок на ЦРУ

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