engine crane and engine stand,mods & accesories



engine crane and engine stand,mods & accesories

Postby grumpyvette » January 12th, 2009, 3:57 pm

for many years Ive used an engine crane in the shop to pull engines, and it became very obvious that some mods to the system were darn near MANDATORY, ID start by pointing out the 2 ton rated engine cranes tend to be FAR more solidly built and have significantly longer reach and more stable bases , than some of the low priced import crap.
heres an area you really do tend to get what you pay for to some extent.
ID strongly suggest you rent or purchase a high quality engine crane and a engine tilter, as at some point your going to be at risk if the cheap crane tips or fails mechanically.
you can be fairly sure any crane that weights less than about 180 lbs is a cheap import, because good solidly built engine cranes frequently weight well in excess of 200 lbs and rarely cost less than $250, in fact most are priced over $270
the cheap import crap, is frequently dangerous, Ive used them occasionally at friends shops, and theres no comparison

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https://www.mfrexpress.com/alloy-swivel ... p-701.html

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one huge hint at the difference in quality is to compare the WEIGHT oF the cranes

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-capa ... o-top-link
HF=162.8 lbs.

AC-DELCO 244.5 Lbs.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0373


now which lift would you rather have support an engine over your head??

with near 82 lbs less steel I think the HF is not the best choice, I know the shop engine crane lift I have used for 30 plus years weights nearly 250 lbs

adding an engine leveler and swivel to your engine crane makes things far easier,
also notice that the 2 ton rated crane pictured above is significantly larger and heavier than the 1 ton rated crane pictured below, its far more obvious in person than in the pictures

Image

I noticed you don,t have a swivel hook,or engine leveler/tilter, trust me it makes the job far easier, to have both
once you do youll wonder why you ever attempted the job without those accessories, without the swivel hook the engine constantly wants to swing back to one location, it fights you constantly, the tilter makes clearing and indexing the engine angle so much easier

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buy the 1.5-2 ton rated hook for your engine hoist and grease the swivel center pin on the hook
http://www.mfrexpress.com/alloy-swivel- ... p-699.html
adding a swivel like this between the leveler and crane GREATLY AIDS THE ENGINES REMOVAL, DON,T GET STUPID or CHEAP, GET THE 3000lb-3500lb rated one not the 1200lb size (REMEMBER YOULL BE UNDER THAT ENGINE SOMETIMES)
Image
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the picture above can be used as a teaching aid, this guys got the engine tilter he needs but its mounted with the tilter too far above the carburetor, limiting the distance the engine can be lifted above the fenders there should be about 2"-3" between the carburetor BASE MOUNT ON THE INTAKE and lower edge of the engine tilter at most, and having the distributor still installed is still a small risk that it could be damaged, its best removed for safety, but the picture does not have the swivel,hook, and hes using it with the crank handle at the wrong end as it will hit the wind shield in some applications while cranking in that location, rather than having the crank face the crane like it should
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HERES A GUY THAT FEELS A FAR MORE RIGID STAND IS A BIGGER ADVANTAGE THAN HAVING IT FOLD UP SMALLER FOR EASY STORAGE
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IF you WELD a large thread rod coupler NUT,Image in place of the crank arm you can use an air ratchet and socket to quickly adjust the angle. and won,t run into clearance issues turning the crank.
another few options
http://www.macscustomtiedowns.com/category/24

Image
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200305217
Image
having a decent plastic engine bag to protect the block when your not working on it helps reduce rust etc.
adding a swivel like this between the leveler and crane GREATLY AIDS THE ENGINES REMOVAL, AS IT PREVENTS THE TENDENCY OF THE ENGINE HANGING ON A CHAIN TO CONSTANTLY WANT TO SWING BACK INTO A SINGLE LOCATION, BUT DON,T GET STUPID or CHEAP, GET THE 3400lb rated one not the 1200lb size (REMEMBER YOULL BE UNDER THAT ENGINE SOMETIMES)
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youll need two of these rated at similar load strength[/b]
Image
Image
Image
every engine crane Ive ever seen came with crappy steel wheels about 2.5"-3"in diam.
Image
" the reasons are obvious.. they are cheap ,and theres clearance issues for the cranes legs if your pulling an engine when the cars NOT up on jack stands, now I can,t see how you can access all the necessary bolts without the car being up on serious,& sturdy jack stands or a lift, so with that in mind I got out the air/die grinder and removed the tack welded steel wheels and added (6) 8" solid rubber wheels on swivels, Image rated at 600 lbs each
yeah, the crane will no longer slide under a car thats not up on jack stands, but then I can,t think of a single reason to use a crane to remove an engine when the cars NOT UP ON JACK STANDS because youll need access to all the bolts holding it in during the process and youll need to support the trans
" ,
YET,ANOTHER GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHY A WELDER IN THE SHOP COMES IN HANDY(welding on new wheels)

this made it SO MUCH EASIER to use its amazing
RELATED THREADs

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=707&p=985&hilit=swivel#p985

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=125&hilit=bags

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=8340&p=29010#p29010

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=930

http://www.myks-tools.com/

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http://www.harborfreight.com/2000-lb-fo ... 67015.html

serviceable and cheap
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8789&p=31244&hilit=engine+stand#p31244
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200305217

probably a better design but not foldable
I like what you did, that looks nice,btw,
Ive got two types of engine stands designs in my shop,(4 engine stands)but I added 4 of these wheels to each stand
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200442439
Image
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200305213


If your having a problem getting the engine stand close enough under the engine crane to easily use the engine crane to lift and mount the engine on the engine stand, its more than likely that your not doing anything wrong"

the sad fact is that about 90% of the less expensive engine cranes don,t have enough space between the support legs that extend out to support weight suspended by the cranes arm to allow the engine stands most guys use to roll into the point where the arm can easily transfer the engine to the engine stand.
most guys mount the engine stand head to the engine then try to lift the engine, after its sitting on the shop floor after pulling it from a car, and slide the engine stand head support tube into the engine stand and only then find out that the smaller and lighter and cheaper engine cranes are a total P.O.S. that won,t allow the transfer.

I bought my engine crane easily 30 years ago or more from northern tool, ,its no longer a listed model, the last time I saw it for sale there was 20 plus years ago and even then it cost $439, its a bit larger and heavier than that linked current version but very similar, and even then it just barely allows a transfer from the crane to the engine stand on most engine stands but not all of them, in its original condition.

so you might ask, what now! well you have options if you think it thru and measure carefully, and are willing to spend some cash, you can obviously either cut and weld your current engine crane to modify its clearances or add taller caster to either the engine crane or engine stand allowing the legs to slide over and around the other to allow access and yeah! that means the engine crane won,t roll under the car in most cases until its up on the jack stands to allow the crane legs to clear the cars frame

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-cus ... 46819.html
Image
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018

yes its going to add some expense, (about $80 if you catch these on sale) but if you add the optional larger casters to an engine stand it allows you to maneuver the legs of the stand so they roll over the crane
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since the picture was taken, effectively doubling the cost of the stands but making them far FAR more user friendly, because they roll far easier, and you can lock the wheels when working on the engine making torquing the bolts far safer and easier
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-cus ... 46819.html
these are very similar to what I used (6) of on the engine crane, having 6 large diam. CASTERS rather than 4 small casters and two wheels that don,t change direction is a HUGE IMPROVEMENT in how easily the engine crane moves once an engines suspended from it,[/color]

well, it was an obvious improvement so I said to myself why stop there??
I put a set of 4 similar swivel casters on one of the shops engine stands and I just can,t believe it took so long for me to do that or how big of an improvement it was!! you get so used to having an engine stand thats a TOTAL P.I.T.A. to move around the shop (AND I sellected some of the easier to move stands) that once you do this mod your thinking how obviously stupid it is not to do it to all the engine stands in t6he shop.....so as finances and time allow Ill convert the other 4 engine stands not quite as good as good sex but its so much better than before I can,t imagine why I didn,t do this 35 years ago

I HAD TO MOVE A FEW ENGINES AROUND TODAY IN THE SHOP, I can,t begin to tell you guys how much I was pleased with those engine stands Id recently installed the 8" swivel casters on! Ive managed to convert all but one at this point to the 8" swivel casters from the 2.5" metal rollers that were previously installed from the original manufacturer, and the difference in ease of movement is truly amazing! If youve ever tried to move a BBC or HEMI on a standard engine stand you know that at 600-800lbs they don,t move easily, and the factory engine stands only have casters on one end and single directional rollers on the other end making them a P.I.T.A. to move in some situations.
I should have done that simply mod YEARS AGO

the old small casters on those HF engine stands simply unbolt, I used (2) 7/16" thread 3" square U-bolts to lock each of the NEW LARGER swivel casters into place then WELDED the flange to the engine stand TOO,and left the (2) 7/16" thread 3" square U-bolts in place
REMEMBER I may be UNDER that engine at some point and its best to be really sure the casters can,t come loose
btw youll need to drill out the mount holes just a bit to use the (2) 7/16" thread 3" square U-bolts because the holes are neither totally round or big enough and they are off set about 1/16" in un-touched form

the two outer leg casters mount about 1/4" in from the ends the two rear casters were mounted to have the u-bolts straddle and place the flange directly under the junction of the main legs, the diagonal braces and the rear cross brace on both sides, then welded
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: engine crane mods & accesories

Postby grumpyvette » January 12th, 2009, 4:02 pm

Engine cranes

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=614&p=818#p818

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=7697&p=26187#p26187

there’s a HUGE difference in QUALITY between different engine cranes, ID VERY STRONGLY suggest you look over ALL the choices and NOT LET PRICE be your main factor in your decision, DON,T JUMP at the CHEAP PRICE OPTION, think about it carefully, at some point you’ll be UNDER that engine and its potentially possible that if it falls you’ll be seriously hurt.

here is two different engine hoists, the cost difference is major BUT SO IS THE STRENGTH, REACH and WEIGHT of STEEL IN THEM
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200305213_200305213
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Ship Wt. 278.0 lbs
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-capacity-heavy-duty-load-leveler-5402.html

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buy the 1.5 ton rated hook for your engine hoist and grease the swivel center pin on the hook
http://www.mfrexpress.com/alloy-swivel- ... p-699.html

btw grease the threads on the traveling pivot with assembly lube or youll find it difficult to crank easily and mount the crank handle so it is to the front of the engine, or youll have limited access and might find the handle breaks a wind shield, use the four corner intake bolts as attachment locations


http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_19703_19703

Image[

Ship Wt. 500.0 lbs

now IM NOT suggesting you spend 4 times the money, but I AM suggesting you take your time and shop very carefully as you may get crippled for life if you use CRAP, and it fails while your under it!....how much is your #%^%& BUTT WORTH

http://www.asedeals.com/aff_engine_cranes.html

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Image
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http://www.extremetools.net/miva/merchan...TS_engineCranes

http://www.americanautomotiveequipment.com/enginecranes.html


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=7620

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I’ve used PLATES in swaps done at some of my friends shops, in my opinion they flat out are dangerous and very difficult to use compared to a good engine tilter like this one below, while the plate seems attractive at $8 compared to $25-$30 or more for a tilter/leveler I have seen the plates destroy manifolds on two occasions by cracking carb mount pads and bending carb studs, especially if the intake is old with corrosion on the stud threads, (4)1/4" or 5/16" studs into aluminum intakes of questionable depth are no comparison to (4) 3/8" bolts into the cylinder heads, and the (4)head mounted 3/8" bolts are under shear and tension while the studs in the intake rely on the thread strength only

Image

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using a hook in a motor plate makes it a real P.I.T.A. to line up a set of motor mounts or a transmission while installing the engine compared to the ease with which an engine tilter and swivel make the job
I now bring my own tilter/leveler when going to a friends to do an engine swap and have YET to find anyone who after useing one that did not go out and by one!

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-capa ... -5402.html

Image

LOOK THEY ARE ON SALE FOR $25, they are rated at 4000lbs vs 1250 lbs for the plate and they make life far easier durring an engine install at $25 they are a GREAT DEAL[/b]
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buy the 1.5-2 ton rated hook for your engine hoist and grease the swivel center pin on the hook
http://www.mfrexpress.com/alloy-swivel- ... p-699.html
adding a swivel like this between the leveler and crane GREATLY AIDS THE ENGINES REMOVAL, DON,T GET STUPID or CHEAP, GET THE 3000lb-3500lb rated one not the 1200lb size (REMEMBER YOULL BE UNDER THAT ENGINE SOMETIMES)
Image
youll need two of these rated at similar load strength


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34924

at some point its just not all that much cheaper to build things that are lower quality, those stands are fine!
Ive had six of the 12 ton jack stands in near constant use for MANY YEARS, trust me! I agree that much of what HF sells is crap, those stands are an exception, go look at them! they are stable, massive and decent designed stands, and yes it helps to have two floor jacks because at the low , first notch setting they are still fairly high from the floor, giving you plenty of access under a corvette or (Z)


Ive used 2 1/2" long 3/8-16 grade 8 bolts, with fender washers and lift chains on the engine tilter,. They would not screw in all the way but are screwed in all the way finger tight, the idea is to not stress the heads or threads in the heads or the intake but have a very strong grip on the engine and if the bolts bend a bit its no big deal at all..btw this was not my engine in the picture, make sure you use a swivel between the crane and the leveler and hook the leveler up so the crank is in the front of the engine or in some cases the windshield and crank on the leveler might pose a clearance issue

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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1027/
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btw you can buy some FLIMSY engine straps like this THAT WILL WORK on that engine tilter
or you can use your brains and buy two , 30" lengths of 3/8" tempered chain, and four-six 4000-5000lb rated screw links
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http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/ ... Item=1XUC2

http://shopper.cnet.com/tools/2-ton-400 ... 29710.html
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four spring shackles
http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm ... goryID=180
and custom make a setup thats far less likely to fail and kill your butt under load


having a few tools designed to easily rotate the engine on hand helps
crank rotators
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flywheel turning tools
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http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/80743/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&Ntk=all&Jnar=0&itemPerPage=90&Ne=1%2B2%2B3%2B13%2B1147708&searchTerm=55580530
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: engine crane and engine stand,mods & accesories

Postby grumpyvette » January 31st, 2009, 10:16 am

read thru this linked thread

heres a darn impressive and logical custom welding project, I found posted on a different site and finding an older flex-plate or flywheel and a spare starter and gear for use with the engine stand as a gear drive and adding some custom crank handle, makes the stand more useable.
now I don,t know why I didn,t think of this, its a rather simple modification with easily obtainable components that would make using an engine stand easier.
the pictures, showing what needed to be done is rather self explanatory
Image

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=707&p=985&hilit=+stand#p985

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=614&p=818#p818
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[color=#004000] BTW when you go to mount the engine to your engine stand, most engine stands have those adjustable tool heads and over size pipe sections in the mount head, the engine mount bolts slide thru ,too bolt the engine, firmly to the tool head, the cure, to taking up the sloppy slack is to first slide two - or three 3/8" fender washers up against the bolt head to prevent the bolts from sliding thru those pipe section and then sliding a 3" section of 3/8" fuel line over the bolt shank before sliding the bolt into the pipe section so it stays roughly centered in the mount head, you'll want about 1/2" minimum-3/4" thread to engage the engine blocks threaded bell housing mount holes.
don,t forget to grease the support shaft on the tool head before inserting it into the engine stand or it will be difficult to rotate once the engines weight is bearing on the sliide collar


engine stands are a tool you really don,t want to do without if your rebuilding an engine simply because they allow far better and easier access to the engine during the assembly process.
but buy a decent engine stand that won,t tip easily, the cheaper stands with three leg designs Image
can be a huge potential problem, as they tend too flip unexpectedly, and your not going to be able to stop it falling or get out of the way at times it it tips while your spining the engine to get better access or tightening a bolt.

Image
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200305217
BTW
youll want 3.5" -4" long 3/8 nc grade 8 bolts for most engine stands with chevy engines, and don,t forget to buy 4 fender washers to prevent the heads of the bolts getting into the stands rotating head mount, only occasionally will youll need 4" bolts but those stands are not common, you might want to measure your tool head and add an inch to the head depth to buy bolts.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=67015
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dirt cheap and adequate, Ive had several for years

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10477&p=44043#p44043

btw I welded 4 of these on each of mine , it makes moving them FAR EASIER
(yes it DOUBLES THE COST, but its well worth it in my opinion
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: engine crane and engine stand,mods & accesories

Postby grumpyvette » March 11th, 2009, 1:11 pm

the question always comes up about is it cheaper to rent or buy a engine crane, that naturally depends on if its a one time install or if you are into the hobby, Ive yet to see anyone rent one and not regret not buying one instead later,

be VERY CAREFUL, because a DECENT hoist need not be real expensive but theres some dangerious junk on the market

renting one is a waste as they frequently rent for about 1/4 of there total cost per day, youll find you paided for it and don,t own it after a long drawn out swap or several easy ones, and youll need it several times durring an install, and not necessarily on the same day

this is a decent value

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35915

something like this will probably get you hurt badly

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200305491_200305491


while IVE used several differant designs in engine cranes successfully at differant locations I can assure you that there is a big differance in how well they work, that "red torin " is fully able to get the job done, (FOR THAT MATTER A LARGE TREE AND ONE OF THESE, CHAIN HOISTS WILL WORK)


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=631

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33003

but its not so much a question of if it can be done, with some types of equipment as it is of can it be done SAFELY and EASILY, and the larger stands are noticably more stabile and have a longer reach,they lift the engine higher and are less likely to have clearance issues from some angles, or reach thier lift limit befiore the engine clears the engine compartment


adding a set of 8" rubber swivel casters to replace the crappy 2.5" steel wheels makes the engine crane, or engine stands far easier to use, use of an engine leveler and a swivel on the hook is also a huge plus

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... _200305217

this is the least expensive engine stand IVE seen that looks like its fairly safe to use

this is nicer

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... _200349940
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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Re: engine crane and engine stand,mods & accesories

Postby grumpyvette » July 15th, 2009, 6:03 pm

HEY GRUMPYVETTE!
" now I also have a spare L98 still at the shop. I need to take it home and was wondering if anyone knows where I can get an engine dolly...or would it be better just to get an engine stand...space is LIMITED in my garage....

Also...whats the best way to prep and store this thing? I have plans for it, but it might take some time to implement them."


an ENGINE DOLLY is nearly useless for anything but storage and ease of moving the engine.
a decent engine stand will perform those functions PLUS allow you to actually work on the engine once you decide to do so.

BUY THIS

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=67015
Image

first it folds up when its not in use, its sturdy and while hardly the best available its a good functional engine stand (IVE GOT THREE IN MY SHOP)
read this
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=707&p=985&hilit=+stand#p985



now as to storing the engine, once its on the stand, drain the oil, then turn it over several times to drain all the coolant, and refill it with about 7 qts of oil to insure the crank and bearings are covered,cover it with a couple plastic trash bags but don,t seal it until your 100% sure no moisture remains in the block, remove the spark plugs and squirt oil in each cylinder then turn the engine over several times to lube the rings and upper cylinders, back off the rockers to reduce the valve spring strain on the valve train, then loosely replace the plugs finger tight, once its been sitting for a month or so you can re-oil the valve train and re-oil the upper cylinders and use duct tape to seal the trash bags


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=67015[/quote]

ILL AGREE.IVE got three of those engine stands in my shop,(all about 12 years old now) ALL with BBC engines on them, they are NOT top of the line but certainly strong enough to do the job safely and Id strongly suggest you buy and weld on four of these casters (two of each) or something similar as it makes them far easier to roll in the shop, if you constantly do engine builds, the stock casters work fine for occasional use but its far easier with the better casters mounted, if they did,t change the metal thickness or design lately they are fine, the only flaw in the design is getting the engine crane close enough, due to the clearances between the legs on both the crane and stand, to easily swing the engine into place, youll need an engine tilter..

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46818

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46819

IF YOUR JUST LOOKING TO STORE A FEW EXTRA ENGINES

http://www.kmjent.com/cart/product.php?productid=561

http://www.jegs.com/i/Jegster/550/1020/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/i/Jegster/550/1005/ ... tId=746095

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200460832

http://www.scribnerplastics.com/engcase.htm

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http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/80039/10002/-1

Image

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you can look over this particular design made from what looks to be 2" angle iron thats usually cheap and easy to locate locally and weld up your own storage dolly's
or if you think it thru, you may find just buying a couple extra engine stands is a better value in the long run because you can rather easily either buy those and resell them later or work on the engines easier, just remember to oil them down with some oil in the oil pan and squirt some marvel mystery oil in the cylinders and use a storage bag and duct tape to limit exposure to moisture
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
grumpyvette

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engine tilter/leveler

Postby grumpyvette » July 25th, 2009, 11:27 am

WELL PERSONALLY I think its a NO BRAINER!

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018

Ive used PLATES in swaps done at some of my friends shops, in my opinion they flat out are dangerous and very difficult to use compared to a good engine tilter like this one below, ........yeah they get used all the time with out problems while the plate seems attractive at $8 compared to $25-$30 or more for a tilter/leveler I have seen the use of those carb lift plates destroy manifolds on two occasions by cracking carb mount pads and bending carb studs, especially if the intake is old with corrosion on the stud threads, (4)1/4" or 5/16" studs into aluminum intakes of questionable depth are no comparison to (4) 3/8" bolts into the cylinder heads, and the (4)head mounted 3/8" bolts are under shear and tension while the studs in the intake rely on the thread strength only
Image

Image
Image

I now bring my own tilter/leveler when going to a friends to do an engine swap and have YET to find anyone who after using one that did not go out and buy one for there own garage!:thumbsup:

habor freight has them on sale frequently for under $27 rated at 4000 lbs

Image

LOOK THEY ARE ON SALE FOR $25, they are rated at 4000lbs vs 1250 lbs for the plate and they make life far easier durring an engine install at $25 they are a GREAT DEAL

ID STRONGLY SUGGEST adding a swivel like this between the leveler and crane GREATLY AIDS THE ENGINES REMOVAL, DON,T GET STUPID or CHEAP, [b]GET THE 3400-3800 lb rated ones
not the 1200lb size (REMEMBER YOULL BE UNDER THAT ENGINE SOMETIMES) [/b]
Image
youll need two of these rated at similar load strength

Image

a good leveler/tilter allows you to correcly line up the trans when you go to re-install it far easier:thumbsup:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/DELUXE-EN ... ,6040.html


http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_19979_19979

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2DG1022&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_76528_-1


http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Search?catalogId=10107&storeId=10101&sku=TILTER%2FLEVELER&searchbtn.x=23&searchbtn.y=7

the HF part # was 5402 I no longer see it listed, heres similar tools above
I generally temp. use 4 longer GRADE 8 bolts about 2.5" long (3/8" 16 thread )and a couple 3/8' fender washers on each bolt to prevent the chain link from slipping off the bolt heads on those 4 bolts, slide the two-three washers on the bolt then slide the bolt thru the chain and thread into the cylinder head ,slipped thru the 4 ends of the chains on the leveler to replace (TEMP.) the 4 outer intake manifold bolts, I pull to install the bolts for the leveler/tilter
don,t be surpprized if a bolt bends slightly, but be sure to screw the bolt threads into the cylinder heads a good deal, so they get a firm grip
that way you get 4 firm anchor points on the edges of the engine and its stays stable.
there are several other ways to do it, but it requires special ( HARDENED/SHOULDER,EYE BOLTS) and safety links that cost more and if your not doing this frequently its probably not worth the extra expense, it won,t be stronger just faster and easier to use than the bolts and washers

some guys use the accessory mounting thread holes but some heads don,t have them and they can be hard to access to remove due to the firewall access at the rear
some guys use the 4 outer exhaust/header mounting bolt holes, but if you don,t screw the bolts in correctly you can crack a head with those easier than the other locations

BTW don,t forget too grease the threads on the leveler,and install a SWIVEL between the leveler and the crane hook, it helps

Engine cranes


there’s a HUGE difference in QUALITY between different engine cranes, ID VERY STRONGLY suggest you look over ALL the choices and NOT LET PRICE be your main factor in your decision, DON,T JUMP at the CHEAP PRICE OPTION, think about it carefully, at some point you’ll be UNDER that engine and its potentially possible that if it falls you’ll be seriously hurt.

here is two different engine hoists, the cost difference is major BUT SO IS THE STRENGTH, REACH and WEIGHT of STEEL IN THEM
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200305213_200305213
Image

Ship Wt. 278.0 lbs


http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_19703_19703

Image

Ship Wt. 500.0 lbs

now IM NOT suggesting you spend 4 times the money, but I AM suggesting you take your time and shop very carefully as you may get crippled for life if you use CRAP, and it fails while your under it!....how much is your #%^%& BUTT WORTH

http://www.asedeals.com/aff_engine_cranes.html

Image



http://www.extremetools.net/miva/merchan...TS_engineCranes

http://www.americanautomotiveequipment.com/enginecranes.html


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=7620

Image

Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: engine tilter/leveler

Postby grumpyvette » September 25th, 2009, 4:56 pm

I get guys who ask me if those hook plates that mount to the carb base on intakes are a good tool for use pulling engines,well guys IM going to disagree,for a few reasons
(1) Ive seen two separate times when one or more of the bolts, in those plates pulled threads out on old aluminum intakes,yes the threads were already corroded, or perhaps the bolts were not long enough, or the guys used the carb studs and didn,t check thread depth

(2) they are a P.I.T.A. to use during an install or removal because they will not maintain either consistent and easily adjustable angle or prevent the engine from wanting to spin on its axis to some location

(3) there is a better way
it starts with a swivel link so the engine stays in any clock index in the engine its placed in without swinging back
Image
get the 2400 lb-or-3600lb rated screw links
Image
then you use a tilter which makes aligning other components like the transmission or motor mounts a good deal easier

Image

Image

Ive used 2 1/2" long 3/8-16 grade 8 bolts, with fender washers and lift chains on the engine tilter,. They would not screw in all the way but are screwed in all the way finger tight, the idea is to not stress the heads or threads in the heads or the intake but have a very strong grip on the engine and if the bolts bend a bit its no big deal at all..
btw this was not my engine in the picture, make sure you use a swivel between the crane and the leveler and hook the leveler up so the crank is in the front of the engine or in some cases the windshield and crank on the leveler might pose a clearance issue

Image
Image
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1027/
Image

btw you can buy some FLIMSY engine straps like this THAT WILL WORK on that engine tilter
or you can use your brains and buy two , 30" lengths of 3/8" tempered chain, and four-six 4000-5000lb rated screw links
Image

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/ ... Item=1XUC2

http://shopper.cnet.com/tools/2-ton-400 ... 29710.html

four spring shackles
http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm ... goryID=180
and custom make a setup thats far less likely to fail and kill your butt under load

BTW when you go to mount the engine to your engine stand, most engine stands have those adjustable tool heads and over size pipe sections in the mount head, the engine mount bolts slide thru ,too bolt the engine, firmly to the tool head, the cure, to taking up the sloppy slack is to first slide two - or three 3/8" fender washers up against the bolt head to prevent the bolts from sliding thru those pipe section and then sliding a 3" section of 3/8" fuel line over the bolt shank before sliding the bolt into the pipe section so it stays roughly centered in the mount head, you'll want about 1/2" minimum-3/4" thread to engage the engine blocks threaded bell housing mount holes.
don,t forget to grease the support shaft on the tool head before inserting it into the engine stand or it will be difficult to rotate once the engines weight is bearing on the sliide collar

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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engine stand use tips

Postby grumpyvette » March 19th, 2010, 8:29 am

you don,t need to spend a great deal on an engine stand but select one that's rated for a minimum of 1200 lbs with a wide stance, the typical three leg designs are well known for flipping and causing injury's
http://www.harborfreight.com/2000-lb-fo ... 67015.html

below are a few engine stands, serviceable and cheap
Image
Image
Image

these work, Ive used them for years, some of the cheaper stuffs a P.I.T.A. or just totally UNSAFE, be sure to mount the tilter so the crank handle faces forward or access and windshield damage are occasionally an issue and GREASE the trolly threads with MOLY grease
Image

USE a swivel on the crane hook or the engine will want to always swing where you least want it too

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3724

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2986

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1940

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200305217

below is probably a better design but not fold-able

Image
Ive got two of both designs in my shop,(4 engine stands)but I added 4 of these wheels to each stand

Image
since the picture was taken, effectively doubling the cost of the stands but making them far more user friendly, because they roll far easier, and you can lock the wheels when working on the engine making torquing the bolts far safer and easier

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-cus ... 46819.html



viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018

most stands don,t come with engine mount bolts and in most cases you'll want 3.5"to 4" long, grade 8, 3/8" NC bolts , you'll need to measure your engine stand adjustable head and provide bolts about 1" longer than the support tube length on the adjustable mount head, the the bolts slide thru to allow adequate thread length in the block and room for the washers that prevent the bolts pulling thru the mount head and a big hand full of 3/8" fender washers to put under the bolt heads, is useful to adjust the depth they protrude and to prevent the heads of the bolts pulling thru the engine stands mount head.
you'll usually want to slide a 3" section of fuel line over the four mount bolts to keep them secured in the mount head, and don,t forget to grease the mount head where it slides into the lower support frame sleeve.
any good axle grease or assembly lube helps reduce friction.
it helps a great deal if you've got an engine crane with a engine tilter that will allow you to align and lift the engine, most engine stands will not slide between the legs of engine cranes so it takes a bit of maneuvering to get the engine supported and mounted, once its mounted on the engine stand verify the heads of the mount bolts are tight before lowering the weight onto the stand from the engine crane.
use GRADE #8 bolts with several fender washers under the bolt heads, washers,prevent the bolts pulling thru and can be used to adjust length, extending into the block, in most cases they will need to be about 3.5" long and the correct thread to match your blocks bell housing bolt threads, on a SBC or BBC that a 3/8" NC thread


READ THIS THREAD ALSO

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018
mount the engine block as close as you can to having the blocks cam tunnel align with the engine stand heads support sleeve center-line

most stands come with a rather flimsy bar thats too short to be used, to spin the engine, but thats a process best done slowly with two adults making sure the engine remains stable.
Image
never even think about one like this, its a trip to the emergency room waiting to happen

Image


Image

a stand like this while hardly top quality , is at least far less likely to get you hurt and works reasonably well
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200305217

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=67015
you've got several choices the ideas to spread the stress by positioning the load over a wide area

where the brackets will most likely bolt, but you've got several valid options, but try to locate the cam center-line near the engine stand heads center-line of rotation, top make it easy to rotate.


bolted to the stand it will look a bit like this

Image

Image

placing two fender washers under the engine securing bolt heads,and then sliding a 3" section of fuel line around those bolts before inserting them into that engine stand keeps the bolts from sliding into the adjustable engine stand, mount head, MOST ENGINE STANDS WILL REQUIRE 4 GRADE #8 3/8" NC bolts about 3.5" long and 8-12 fender washers for those 3/8" bolts to mount a chevy V8 engine

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018

http://www.ehow.com/video_2327469_rotat ... stand.html

http://www.ehow.com/video_2327467_attac ... stand.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2wqhSB-JKs

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2986&p=7842&hilit=+engine+stand#p7842

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018&p=3006&hilit=stand+wheels#p3006

related info
all these stands are CHEAP and not high quality but the better ones are functional

Image
a trip to the emergency room waiting on your first stupid move


Image
a bit better but not much


these two lower stands are at least functional and reasonably stable,
Ive got 3 of one design and one of the other design in my shop, and after installing much better casters they provide a functional economical engine stand




Image
easily fold-able if not used


Image
a good basic low cost ,stable stand for very little cash out lay
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: engine crane and engine stand,mods & accesories

Postby svmike » October 6th, 2010, 5:47 pm

Hi,

I'm looking for advice on woking with LS engines.
I read your engine crane thread and took your advice, I bought a Harbor Freight engine hoist and this leveler: http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-capa ... -5402.html
I have two questions:
1. What is the safest place to attach to a crate engine? I know that some folks use a plate that bolts to the valley cover, but I know you don't like those.
2. The HF leveler only comes with chains, but no bars or plates at the end, how does it actually attach to the mounting points?

I know you've forgotten more about cars than I know, so your help is most definitely appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike
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Re: engine crane and engine stand,mods & accesories

Postby grumpyvette » October 6th, 2010, 6:11 pm

read thru this thread and look closely at the pictures
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2163

like the pictures indicate , the 4 corner threaded manifold bolt holes, in the cylinder heads are used with two chains similar to this

Image
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1027/
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Better Engine Stand

Postby Indycars » October 16th, 2010, 4:26 pm

I bought this engine stand at Harbor Freight yesterday, its on sale for $89.99 right now. But I couldn't help myself I had to make it better so I drilled six more holes in the head. Now I can rotate the engine and stop it every 30 degrees, in stead of every 60 degrees. Just didn't seem like every 60 was enough. Figure I better do it now before I get started on the engine. Now I can give the three wheel stand to someone else.

http://www.harborfreight.com/2000-lb-fo ... 67015.html
EngineStand01.jpg
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Re: Better Engine Stand

Postby grumpyvette » October 16th, 2010, 5:37 pm

$90 is a good price for that stand and adding a few extra mount hole angles won,t hurt either
Ive had several of those, or at least similar in appearance, 2000lb rated fold-able import engine stands in my shop- for well over 15 years, and they have been used almost constantly with BIG BLOCK ENGINE BUILDS so they are durable.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2986&p=7842&hilit=+engine+stand#p7842

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018&p=3006&hilit=stand+wheels#p3006

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=4523&p=11968&hilit=+second+engine+spare#p11968

related info
all these stands are CHEAP and not high quality but the better ones are functional,
youll want to be sure to lube the engine mount heads rotating center mount with a good grease before installing it in the base, a 3 ft long section of re-bar , with washers welded to the ends so it cant slip fully out of the mount head,can be used to provide more leverage to turn the engine once its mounted rather than the short pipe it comes with

Image
this type of engine stand is just a trip to the emergency room waiting on your first stupid move


Image
a bit better but not bye much


these two lower stands are at least functional and reasonably stable,
Ive got 3 of one design and one of the other design in my shop, and after installing much better casters they provide a functional economical engine stand




Image
easily fold-able if not used


Image
IF your not working on, but simply storing an engine,a good basic low cost ,stable stand for very little cash out lay
just carefully oil and plastic bag the engine to preclude excess dirt & rust


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-910057/
Image

at this price its barely worth plugging in the MIG and making a trip to the metal supply house

BTW most of my friends simply welded up their own stands using old motor mounts and 2" box steel and spare casters, but you might want to consider .. buying an engine stand and welding up a second temporary use,MUCH shorter center head holder so you can temporarily, remove the original one, and install the temporary short one for transport duty, so you can simply slide the head out of the original stand, swap to the lower custom center stand support bolted in its place, for transport than swap back, when the engine stands in use


http://www.harborfreight.com/2000-lb-fo ... 67015.html

Image


making a second, bolt on,shorter modified, support section to swap out, and insert the existing engine holding tool head into for transport use, something similar to this would make it nearly impossible to tip over during transport in the back of a pick-up truck for example

Image
having a decent plastic engine bag to protect the block when your not working on it helps reduce rust etc.
Image

Image

Image

these work, Ive used them for years, some of the cheaper stuffs a P.I.T.A. or just totally UNSAFE, be sure to mount the tilter so the crank handle faces forward or access and windshield damage are occasionally an issue and GREASE the trolly threads with MOLY grease
Image
Image
USE a swivel on the crane hook or the engine will want to always swing where you least want it too.
as I point out in the LINKS swapping to much better casters significantly increased the cost to almost double but makes the engine stand FAR easier to use and move, and its well worth the cost if you do a good deal of engine rebuilds like I do. (it helps if you have a welder)
Image
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-cus ... 46819.html

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3724

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2986

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1940

(IF you transport engines frequently both the short replaceable center stand and welding on 4 to 6 d-rings to the engine stand base to simplify the tie down procedure would be a good idea on a stand used for engine transportation, these rings welded to both the front and rear engine stand frame corners for ease of transport, and security on the trailer or in the pick-up bed add security,at times)
Image
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Better Engine Stand

Postby grumpyvette » October 17th, 2010, 9:49 am

while were discussing engine stands,
Id point out that a bit of thought as to the direction of forces when your torquing your main caps or trying to rotate your engine location will help a great deal, ESPECIALLY WITH THE SMALLER BASE STAND DESIGNS
more than one guy has failed to pay attention to that and placed a good deal of force on the end of a torque wrench or breaker bar and flipped the engine, off balance.....trust me when I say your first instinct is to try and catch or push the engine back as it falls and you are not going to win that contest....if 600-800lb of engines headed to the floor you better NOT get in the way, so its best to use a very stable wide base engine stand and pay attention to keeping forces along the engine block center-line.
Image

this picture tends to make me think this guys NOT thinking that factor thru, moving the handle, on the wrench 90 degrees could lower the engines tendency to tip.
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: Better Engine Stand

Postby Indycars » October 17th, 2010, 1:10 pm

I drilled the extra holes offset, there wasn't enough room to just drill between the holes that were already there. While I had the head lined up the drew the black holes to help me line-up for the pin when rotating the engine. Probably won't last long, but it was easy enough.

I'm also looking for some 5/8 OD x 3/8 ID tubing to slip inside the attaching points to take up the slack around the bolts that hold the block.

I know when I had only the block on the three wheel stand it started to tip on me and I was just trying to roll it across a seam in the floor.
EngineStandHead01.jpg
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Re: engine crane and engine stand,mods & accesories

Postby grumpyvette » July 15th, 2011, 6:04 pm

today was an excellent example of why old guys with experience can make things look far easier to do, as my dad used to say
"if it takes you awhile to recognize a problem, like getting whacked up side the head with a 2x4 to get your attention its your fault, but if the guy rears back to hit you again ( you are faced with the same issue) and you don,t at least learn to move out of range(DO SOMETHING TO IMPROVE THINGS) your a hopeless moron! your suppose to learn from mistakes!"
I was over helping supervise , the project and drink coffee at a friends shop as he pulled the engine from his Pontiac
he has an engine crane but until today it just had a hook on the end and he had one of those annoying to use lift plates that always allow the engine to rotate back to the exact same angle of depression and pointing the same place as you lift the engine making it a total P.I.T.A. to work with, I only live a few blocks away so after watching him struggle and almost bust a radiator and wind shield I went to the shop and grabbed my hook swivel and engine tilter, after he saw the difference it made he went down to HF and bought an engine tilter and went to the local hard ware and bought a swivel hook , yes it makes a HUGE difference in how easily an engine it to remove! and even old guys like my friend realized that after trying both routes, in fact he said "I can,t believe Ive fought that stupid "engine won,t tilt or stay rotated where I put it ,problem " for all these years when the solutions so damn obvious"

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-capa ... -5402.html

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1018&p=26984&hilit=+tilter#p26984

Image
having several or at least 4 of these shoulder eye bolts in 3/8" NC thread are a huge help
Image
use 4 1600 lb rated screw links to connect the chains from the engine tilter to the shoulder eye bolts
Image
having a swivel hook on your engine cranes almost mandatory,as it allows you to easily spin the engine alignment
and obviously a decent engine tilter is a good idea, as it allows engine angle changes, just remember the crank handle faces away from the windshield , and the tilter screw thread bar requires moly lube grease

Image



Image


btw grease the threads on the traveling pivot with assembly lube or youll find it difficult to crank easily and mount the crank handle so it is to the front of the engine, or youll have limited access and might find the handle breaks a wind shield, use the four corner intake bolts as attachment locations
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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Re: engine crane and engine stand,mods & accesories

Postby grumpyvette » November 7th, 2012, 2:39 pm

RELATED THREADS AND INFO

http://2loose.chevytalk.org/cherrypicker.html

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=43&p=51&hilit=hoist+swivel#p51

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1940&p=5138&hilit=crane+swivel#p5138

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=806&p=1208&hilit=crane+swivel#p1208

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=44&p=103&hilit=crane+swivel#p103

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8566




heres a rather interesting idea. a engine crane thats got the capacity , after its been modified, to be used behind a vehicle as an engine transport trailer, Im sure some careful planing could even improve on this combination design.
Id strongly suggest thinking thru the design so that the engine crane will still work to pull engines out of a car and while its up, hanging from an engine leveler/tilter, have the ability to mount it on an engine stand , so you can work on the engine and/or transport the engine, this would most likely require a modular design where components bolt on or be easily removed, one problem I see frequently is that a separate engine stand can,t be moved inside the legs of many engine cranes far enough to allow easy transfer of the hanging engine to the engine stand, this makes lifting the engine up on the engine stand a P.I.T.A.
keep in mind PERMANENTLY attached larger road wheels will most likely prevent the legs of a road worthy trailer/combo engine crane from sliding under the car your removing an engine from so again a modular, quick change design thats adjustable is likely the best concept.
my larger crane has 8 of these swivel caster wheels mounted as the original casters were far to small to roll easily with significant weight. wheels like these make moving the crane in the shop far easier but they would be useless on the road transport aspect., these wheels also work great on engine stands


Image
NOTICE THE TOW BALL HITCH AT THE TOP OF THE CRANE SUPPORT BEAM

Image
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-cus ... 46819.html


Image
Image
Image

http://www.harborfreight.com/1195-lb-ca ... 90154.html

obviously having a few trailer parts, an engine stand and an engine crane, and a welder , to work with, would allow you with some careful measurement and fabrication to build a combo engine stand, engine crane and transport trailer

http://www.southwestwheel.com/store/p-2 ... r-kit.aspx

http://www.redtrailers.com/trailers.asp
IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!
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